Longleaf pine water intake???

Wildland Fire Fighter · December 07, 2009, 01:41:54 PM

Had an interesting question posed to me, just trying to find any possible answer to give them. How much water intake per day can a mature long leaf pine consume?

WDH · December 07, 2009, 06:15:05 PM

I don't know the answer, but I am sure that the research has been done. Contact the Warnell School of Forest and Wildlife Resources at the Univ. of GA and I bet they can provide some info.

Onthesauk · December 07, 2009, 10:27:42 PM

Had a DNR forester tell me that a fully mature western red ceder, under ideal conditions, could take up 1,000 gallons of water a day.

Jeff · December 07, 2009, 10:32:15 PM

1000? Man, that seems like a lot. I was always taught that a mature oak tree uses around 50 gallons a day.

With 1000, all I would need is a handful of them to dry up the soggy ground by Northern white cedars live in, cause they can't seem to do it. :-\ I sure wish they could.

Jeff · December 07, 2009, 10:46:39 PM

You might be able to extrapolate some data from this paper.

http://treephys.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/18/8-9/499.pdf

Wildland Fire Fighter · December 08, 2009, 01:50:16 PM

Quote from: WDH on December 07, 2009, 06:15:05 PM
I don't know the answer, but I am sure that the research has been done. Contact the Warnell School of Forest and Wildlife Resources at the Univ. of GA and I bet they can provide some info.

One of our foresters works at Warnell and I was thinking of calling him. Thanks for the advise.

Wildland Fire Fighter · December 08, 2009, 01:52:22 PM

Quote from: Onthesauk on December 07, 2009, 10:27:42 PM
Had a DNR forester tell me that a fully mature western red ceder, under ideal conditions, could take up 1,000 gallons of water a day.

That does seem like a lot. We were thinking more in line of 30Min-600max per day. Depending on drought conditions. Live oaks might get close to 1000. Again thinks for all of the advise.

bill m · December 08, 2009, 05:45:53 PM

At an arborist class I went to I was told a mature full crown hard Maple would take up 250 gal. a day

WDH · December 08, 2009, 06:10:28 PM

WFF,

Let us know what you find out.

ellmoe · December 08, 2009, 07:29:27 PM

If my memory is correct a mature cypress tree will pull two tons of water per day when putting on new growth in the spring. I've seen some swamps dry up very fast at this time of the year, so I can believe it.

Mark

Magicman · December 08, 2009, 08:44:33 PM

Quote from: ellmoe on December 08, 2009, 07:29:27 PM
a mature cypress tree will pull two tons of water per day when putting on new growth in the spring. Mark

If my math is correct, that's not but 500 gallons. Cypress trees contain much more free moisture than pines. You will almost drown sawing cypress. You have to wring the water out of your gloves when handling the fresh sawed lumber.

LeeB · December 08, 2009, 11:42:55 PM

Your math be pretty close. Fresh water weighs in at 8.345 lb/gal.

fishpharmer · December 09, 2009, 05:58:45 AM

Interesting questions and answers.

I can offer a loosely related observation. ;) I have a little patch of planted pine right by the road. It is on a hill top. I noticed that some of the trees in one area seemed to be growing faster and larger. One day I noticed bare dirt and some orange flags between the road and the patch of pines. It turned out there was a small leak in the community water system right near the fast growing spot. I have a well. ;) The community water goes to a neighbor. ;D

I realize this gives no real evidence of water intake, yet it made me think how beneficial additional water can be for the growth of pine trees. I wonder if there have ever been any cost/benefit analysis on the feasibility of watering pine trees (in small patches)?

ellmoe · December 09, 2009, 06:52:40 AM

Quote from: fishpharmer on December 09, 2009, 05:58:45 AM

I, yet it made me think how beneficial additional water can be for the growth of pine trees. I wonder if there have ever been any cost/benefit analysis on the feasibility of watering pine trees (in small patches)?

If it is the limiting factor it might help. However, if a nutrient(s) is(are) the limiting factor additional water should not help. Maybe on dry, sandy soils there would be an improvement.

Mark

Wildland Fire Fighter · December 09, 2009, 11:01:41 AM

Quote from: WDH on December 08, 2009, 06:10:28 PM
WFF,

Let us know what you find out.

The web site that Jeff put up (http://treephys.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/18/8-9/499.pdf) is what i refered the person that asked the question. It has some helpful information. They were wondering if watering the pines such as fishpharmer suggested would even be fiesable. I informed them that it couldnt hurt unless they over watered the trees and got root rot.

SwampDonkey · December 10, 2009, 07:02:46 PM

I've not yet seen a scarcity of water in these parts. ;D Trees like white ash, red cedar, white cedar, and Doug-fir must have fast transpiration rates or don't require much water because they only lose about 2-6 lb/ft³ from green to 12 % MC (Doug-Fir the least). I guess you'd have to study them to see at what point they are water stressed and maybe capture the transpired water in some form of tent canopy to measure the condensate. No idea what the setup would be. It would be easier studying the degree of stress when putting on spring growth because later on the stress may be unnoticed for a few days in the conifers. Ash leaves would wither soon, but cedar bows might not turn brown for days in late season growth.