2017 timber markets

[livemusic]

Can anyone summarize what is going on with modern timber markets? I am mostly interested in my area of the southern USA. Pine timber is depressed? How long has it been this way? Why did it occur, did landowners just plant too many pines? It sure seems that way; there are not many hardwood tracts around! Or is it low demand? If so, that does not speak well for a robust economy. As for pine, I wonder how long a depressed market can last. Might be a long time!

What about hardwood? Seems I have heard that it is paying better than pine? How long has this been going on? As for growing them, hardwoods take so long to mature!

Are landowners down in the dumps these days about timber prices?

Just kind of wondering where it is and how it got there.

[pineywoods]

Look at the uses or markets for wood. Here in the deep south, there are 2 major markets for pine timber, houses and paper. Few new houses being built and uses for paper have declined. I remember beautiful hardwood tracts being bulldozed and burned and replanted in fast growing pine. I have a neighbor who just cleared and burned 50 acres of nice young pine, converting to open pasture. I asked him why. He replied, "I can make more money quicker growing cows than growing pine trees"
It's all a matter of money..

[TKehl]

I've also heard that Canada subsidizes their Pine/Spruce/Fir, but never really paid attention as it doesn't affect me. 

I'm sure people who planted pine are in the dumps, including some large corporations.  Around here it's very different.  Only pine would be from a yard tree, it's all hardwood and a lot of Oak.  Timber sales are thought to be once a lifetime if that often, and timed to a new tractor/truck/house purchase instead of the market.  Then there is the hassle of dealing with the mess (tops, ruts, etc.) left behind.  As such, timber isn't seen as valuable other than hunting ground or a nice place to build a house.  Here, there are three numbers landowners seem to care about.

1.   How many deer (turkey etc.) have I seen.
2.   How many zero's in the value of a "highly valuable" Black Walnut. 
3.   How many $/acre does it cost to clear with a dozer/excavator for pasture/row crop.

There are of course exceptions, but most people I talk with fall into one or more of the above categories.  Can't say much, I used to be the same way.  I had planned to buy a dozer to open up more pasture ground from all the trees I thought were worthless.  My how my opinion has changed.   

Just for one more monkey wrench in the works, individual species of hardwood go up and down in value on top of macro scale market fluctuations.  For example, WI had a program to tend Red Oak, I believe with cost share, to cull out competing species.  Now Red Oak has dropped in popularity and several of the species culled out have become significantly more valuable.  I favor some diversity.