Porch Decking & Overloaded Trailer

[Magicman]

Today I needed to get 90 pressure treated 2X6X12's and guess where my 18' trailer was??  Yup, loaded with a grandson's metal roofing so.....

All that I had was my 10' single axle trailer.  Loading it with 1080 bf of dripping wet freshly treated SYP was a sorta struggle, but with two fork lifts, they got-r-done.


Kinda like a 10 pound load in a 6 pound trailer, but since I only had to go 2 miles, I took it slow and easy.
I made the trip home and have it stacked.

Sadly the lumber quality has dropped off quite a bit.  It is obvious that the sawmills are sawing some of the beetle killed Pines because there are some black dead knotholes that I have not seen in the past.  This will be porch decking so I will deal with the lumber quality as I get to it. 

[sprucebunny]

I was going to use 2x6s when I redid my porch last year ( 16 OC joists; some doubled because of over zealous nailing as originally built with 2x6s) but the wood quality of 5/4x6 was so much better that I used that. It shrank a bunch widthwise but that's ok. No knots, no twists, weighs less.

[Magicman]

I opted to go with the 2X6's because I could get them at the same price as the 5/4X6's.  It was my error that I did not think to compare the face quality.  Never even though about it because I have never seen poorer face quality before.  

I have what I have and I will look at options to dress them up a bit.  There are very few open knotholes.  It is obvious that they are mixing in a few beetle killed trees/logs.

[SawyerTed]

I redid our porch flooring 2 or 3 years ago.  Rather than deal with the loading and unloading, tarliering etc., I had the 5/4x6x16' deck boards delivered.  Delivery was free and the driver placed it where I needed it using the Moffitt forklift. 

On the front porch which faces due South, the 5/4 boards dried out and left a bigger space than on the North side of the house.  

[caveman]

MM, I get roused all the time for hauling loads too heavy on my trailers.  I'm glad you got it home without issue.  The last several decks that I've built with freshly treated wood, I spaced with the nails that were going to hold them down.  After they dried, the spacing seemed appropriate, maybe 3/8".

I wish I could get some of the freshly beetle killed pine reasonably delivered here.  I'm trying to buy my first ever delivered logs and the guy I'm dealing with wants to saw at 20' because 16' 6" is too much cutting.  He'll only be hauling 4-5 miles.  I may ask what he'll charge if we fell the trees, buck and he loads and we haul, but the main reason we bought the telehandler is to be able to quickly unload trailers of DELIVERED logs.

DanG, that is a load on that little trailer.  I had to go back and take another look.  Your axle may have a bit of a smiley face from now on.  

[Magicman]

I will be full speed ahead for the next several days removing the rotten 5/4X6's and installing this.  I have no idea yet about what railing (design) that I will use.  The old railing that I liked was full 4X4, 2X4, & 2X2.  My problem is that I do not have any White Oak to saw them from.  I am having a Post Oak removed but it is so wet that I do not know when.  Just a slight dilemma. 

[Ianab]

My little trailer has a fold down / removable front gate, as well as the back. So when loading up long boards you can hopefully get them centred up just in front of the axle, and keep some weight on the hitch. I'd still be a little overloaded, but it would tow OK without the tail dragging. The lighter trailers seem to keep that fixed front as it gives them a bit more rigidity. 

[Magicman]

Delivery was free and the driver placed it where I needed it using the Moffitt forklift.

I woke up from a deep slumber/brain fart when I read that.    I am so used to doing everything myself, for myself, and by myself, that delivery never crossed my mind.  Free delivery was available and they would have unloaded and spotted the lumber with the piggyback fork lift.  duh 

My plan is to remove about 10 old boards and then backfill behind me as I work across each of the three porch sections.  I found out yesterday that it is easier to clip the 3 1/2" twist shank nails with the "sawzall" than to pull them.  I'll go back with 12d galvanized "air" nails.

[SawyerTed]

Even to orange box store delivers for $75.  I figure it takes at least 3 hours to hookup the trailer, drive there, load the cart, check out, load the trailer, drive home unload etc.  I can do something productive during that time like make money with the sawmill. 

Then there's all that lumber handling!  

[doc henderson]

my Bostitch air nailer will drive ring shank, if you can find them.

[Magicman]

I showed a couple of pictures of my porch/deck project on another topic so in order to keep this topic on track I will add them here:

This is a three tiered arrangement so that...


The "ground" steps are only three steps instead of six.  

All of the original decking and railing was heart Cherry.  The decking boards only lasted 5 years but the railing is 22 years old, but it has served it's purpose and will now be replaced.

My today's project was removing and replacing the decking from the top tier.  I quickly found out that using the "saws all" and clipping the nails was the best way to go. 
 

I am freshening the joist and sills with the above before adding the new decking.


The old decking was nailed down with these but


I chose to go with these galvanized air nails.


Ya always gotta be proud of da first board laid, and I was.

Seventeen boards later I am at the 45° transition point which is where I stopped for the day.  Me ole bones was kinda tard.  My work is cut out for me tomorrow.

I talked with my tree service guy today that was already scheduled to remove two problem trees from my back yard.  One is a Post Oak so that should serve me well for my railing.  Post Oak is in the White Oak family and will outlast conventional White Oak.

On another note, the sawing jobs are rolling in and stacking up.    

I need two of me. 

[Magicman]

At least I got all of the 45° transition boards off before the rain.

[JD Guy]

MM, Following as I need to replace our deck boards too. I am considering not spacing them as when they dry/cure the space that opens up seems excessive. Is this a bad idea due to potential for water pooling on the surface until some shrinkage occurs? I'm also considering screwing the deck boards down rather than nailing, if I have to do a repair. As for future total replacement that will be left to others as at 73 it's going to be someone else's responsibility

[Magicman]

These boards were delivered from the sawmill/processor that day and are soaking dripping wet with the preservatives so there is no way that they can swell.  I am jamming them tight and nailing them down.  I tried deck screws in the past, but never again.  Just too easy to twist them off and you don't know it.

I made a comment earlier about the face quality but yesterday I was at the lumber yard and compared the 5/4 vs the 2X6's.  Many of the 5/4 boards had pith but none of my 2X6's have pith.  The quality of my 2X6 faces compare very nicely with the 5/4, plus I have much tighter growth rings.  Mine are "ground contact" treated and I did not see that on the 5/4. 

As you mentioned, this is also my last rodeo with this deck and I am happy with my decision.

[sprucebunny]

The 2x6s I removed from my porch were pressure treated, 30 years old and still tightly side butted. Also rotten on the surface. It had been painted. There were some puddles. A few boards had been replaced already.

The joists had some nail sickness. Some of the butt joints had 12 nails in each board ! There were also some ring nails.

I put joist tape on the old joists, sistered some where the grain had broken from all the nails and used stainless screws.

Was it expensive and overkill ? Maybe. 
I spaced the boards carefully at 1/4 and they are about 3/8 now ( south side of house). That's fine. The new steel roof sheds snow on the deck and I have gutter heat tape run in the gaps near the siding to help melt it and air will help get rid of the rest.

[JD Guy]

Thanks, MM! Ok, maybe best to go back with nails  I have a Paslode nailer so should go quickly and no need to rent/buy a big screw gun! Looking forward to your progress. Oh, I can't remember but when the treatment process changed a few years back from Penta to the new stuff didn't that mean that galvanized could no longer be used or is it the other way around?

[Peter Drouin]

You're right about the deck screws. I got some from the big box store. The head would snap off or brake 1/2 way down.
Good luck and don't overdo it, You're not 79 anymore. 

[Magicman]

Oh, I can't remember but when the treatment process changed a few years back from Penta to the new stuff didn't that mean that galvanized could no longer be used or is it the other way around?

Yup, galvanized corrodes and plain nails rust so the fasteners go either way.  It's not something that I am too concerned about and I ain't buying SS.  In 5-10 years it all has to be replaced anyway.

[Ianab]

Only about 150 bd / ft of Sugi on my little trailer today.

Dropping it off to Taylor's school tomorrow for their "tech week". Most is to build plant propagation tables / mini greenhouses, and some random 1" thick off cuts to use with their new laser engraving machine. 

[Magicman]

One more small step, the 45° top deck is complete.  Doesn't sound like much, but I am not on a schedule.  No sawmilling until this is completed.


I will begin removing the 12'X15' middle deck tomorrow but first the 20+ year old Cherry railing has to go.  I'll just saw it into 20" sticks for firewood. 

[Magicman]

I did not get all of the rotten decking off today but tomorrow is another day.  It's still a nice change from yesterday. 

[Magicman]

I had all of the old decking off before noon today.


I'll freshen the joists with CopperCoat before placing the new decking.

A little more than half of the decking on the second tier.  After I finish this tier, I'll move on to the last one.  I am going to modify that lower/last tier by removing some of the joists and make it a bit smaller which will make adding the roof much simpler.  I doubt that I will be able to complete that last tier tomorrow and there is rain forecast for Friday.

That purple Wisteria is providing a nice fragrance while I am working.

[doc henderson]

bout DanG time!      looks good.

[Magicman]

Thanks doc, but with all of this up & down my legs are setting my work schedule. 

I will be excited to get a roof over this deck which will add to it's enjoyment and also prevent the weather beating that it has always had.

[doc henderson]

At 63 much of the get is gone from my gitty-up-and-go.  I can only imagine when I am your age.  very motivational.

[Resonator]

When I grow up I want to be like Magic Man!
When you build something yourself, you know how it was built, no cuttin' corners.
(Except on all that diagonal part).

[Magicman]

The second tier is floored so I'll count it as a success.     So now I am removing the flooring from the final tier.  Although it is the smallest, it will be more difficult because I will be reducing the size which will take additional time.

[doc henderson]

Looks great!...   I mean bout time! 

[Magicman]

The odd shaped 9X12 lower tier as it is now.

The right hand portion with the decking removed will be removed.  The finished lower tier will be a 9X9 kinda trapezoid with the near corner removed for the steps as seen above.

Gotta be careful with that rotten deck to keep PatD from stepping through.....again.

[gspren]

Could just tack some old license plates over the holes to keep a "rustic" look.

[Magicman]

Yup, that might work except there is nothing to tack to. 

Looks like I did not do much today but there is so much left to do.  I did get the right side where the green paint was yesterday cut off and squared up.  I also used the HiLift jack to remove two piers and I will have to add two in the correct places to replace them.  Tomorrow I will tie the near right corner in and hopefully lay some if not all of the 2X6 decking to the lower tier.  Gotta build new steps.

The tree service guy came by this afternoon and gave me a price on removing the Red and Post Oak trees.  I am needing the Post Oak logs to supply the material for my new railing. 

The forecast is for some rain tonight and clear tomorrow, so maybe I can keep on keeping on with this project.

[Magicman]

It does not look like I did much but I put in a hard day.  Nothing that strenuous, just continuous.  Thankfully again there is negligible structural damage nor rot but I did have an instance of termite infiltration on the steps and the rim joist above the steps.  I will rebuild the steps and replace that joist next. 

The three boards on the left are not attached and are serving as my walk boards.

The weather forecast shows rain Monday afternoon and gone by Tuesday morning so maybe I can soon finish this project.

[JD Guy]

MM You're making me feel guilty   Guess I need to get off my *** and get mine done 
before full blown summer gets here!

[Magicman]

For now I have put the sawmill and sawing jobs on idle until I finish this.  I am telling folks that I am on a job, and I am.  I will have the deck done before Easter but it will not have railing nor a roof yet.

[Magicman]

I made nice progress on da steps today between other interruptions. 

I should finish flooring the deck tomorrow.    

[Bill Gaiche]

I bought decking materials last week and found the quality was poor compared to years ago. I went with the premium stuff in order to having fewer knots. bg

[doc henderson]

magic I wish I lived closer.  I bet you are a lot of fun to build a deck with.  I might even learn a thing or two!

[Magicman]

I initially wanted to use White Oak but I did/do not have a source so hence the option to use the normal 5/4 X6 or 2X6's.  The 5/4 was mostly pith wood with wide growth rings so poor quality.  The 2X6's are all #2 side lumber with much tighter grain.  Since I got the "contractor's" price, the 2X6's were the same price as the 5/4 would have been.

When unloading I was concerned about maybe it was from bug killed trees with open knots but this concern has proven to be a non issue.  Only one tier used full 12' boards while the other two tiers have shorter sections plus the steps so I have been able to work around and still utilize the two boards that would have otherwise been unacceptable.

My railing is still standing in tree form, so no railing for now.  Since I began this rebuild project I have also decided that it will be completely covered with a roof so this deck will become a porch.

Good Morning Bill, it's good to see your smiling face.  Bill is one of the FF members that has actually seen this deck and we have had the pleasure of feeding him several times.   He is seen above in the center between Paul Case on the left and our late FF member wwsjr (Willie Steele) on the right.

This morning's rain should be gone by 10:00, so I can get back to work.

[Magicman]

After the rain moved out and even with the interruptions I still managed to finish the steps and whatever else needed to be done before the decking can go down on this lower tier.

I'll paint the CopperCoat on the joists and nail-um-down in the morning.  I am looking forward to laying this little project in my taillights.

One thing that has not been settled/decided yet is the skirting.  I just know that it will not be wood because I had a few instances of termite intrusion before with the Cherry skirting.  Maybe some kind of mobile home skirting ??

61.

[doc henderson]

or aluminum soffit.  or foe brick board to match the house.

[Magicman]

I have taken pictures of the brick, both in the shade and sunlight, to try to match whatever needs matching.

61.

[Magicman]

I done did it or maybe did done it:

The lower tier is complete.


A different view showing the three deck tiers.


The three tiers plus the step up onto the porch. 

So railing, skirting, and a roof is next.  I have two metal roof contractors coming tomorrow; one tomorrow morning and the other tomorrow afternoon.

61.

[Old Greenhorn]

You done did! Looks great Lynn! I like the design too, even that was established a while back. Now you can enjoy it, between sawing jobs.

[Magicman]

Thanks Tom, yup over 20 years and maybe I am finally getting it right.  At least I know that it will outlast me. 

61 is coming.

[Old Greenhorn]

Yeah, I noticed that '61' thing, what is that all about? Did I miss something?

[doc henderson]

I was wondering too.  I think y'all been married longer than "61" years.  as I recall you left home, and you and Miss pat ran off and got married fairly young.

[Resonator]

Early congrats to the love birds on their anniversary. 

[Southside]

Iffin you put up skirting where will your hound dogs lie? 

[doc henderson]

If it is short shirting, be sure to put hose under there.

[Magicman]

Yeah, I noticed that '61' thing, what is that all about? Did I miss something?

61 ain't here yet but it's coming. 

[Magicman]

Both roofing contractors have been here, measured, made notes, and will furnish me with an estimate.  One would be all stick construction and the other would be all metal construction.  We shall see but I would prefer the all metal version.  I just hope that the estimates do not exceed my $$.

61 is soon.   

[doc henderson]

offer a little milling and barter.

[Magicman]

That may sound good on the surface but it would not an option with either of these contractors although we did talk sawmilling a bit and one of them may need some old timbers resawed.  They have materials to buy and labor to pay and I doubt that either of them would be interested in a whack of 2X4's.  

61 is soon. 

[Southside]

MM I think we may have a Palindromic sort of relationship here, for me 16 is coming.  

[Magicman]

I finished laying this second tier on March 21. 

It was laid tight with absolutely no gap between the kiln dried pressure treated 2X6's.

I took this picture this morning which shows:

Between an eight to a quarter inch spacing between the boards.  I am pleased.

An odd thing that I found while handling the 2X6's was:

I noticed that this one had a plastic plug indicating that the treatment facility had taken a core sample.  I suppose that they were verifying the pressure treatment penetration depth.

The plug was wood colored and you can see where I scratched the surface.

[doc henderson]

MM, kiln dried after treatment by you?  or just standard lumber, kiln dried and then pressure treated.  The saturation, weight and MC of PT wood varies greatly.  It seems like a good idea for more refined building with it, to get it down to a similar lower MC before building.  avoid the big gaps.

[JD Guy]

I finished laying this second tier on March 21.

It was laid tight with absolutely no gap between the kiln dried pressure treated 2X6's.

I took this picture this morning which shows:

Between an eight to a quarter inch spacing between the boards.  I am pleased.

An odd thing that I found while handling the 2X6's was:

I noticed that this one had a plastic plug indicating that the treatment facility had taken a core sample.  I suppose that they were verifying the pressure treatment penetration depth.

The plug was wood colored and you can see where I scratched the surface.

Thanks for the pics, especially those of the boards you butted up during installation. I know what I'm going to do when I replace my deck now

Very nice by the way!

[Magicman]

or just standard lumber, kiln dried and then pressure treated

Yes, Dried and then placed into the chamber where a vacuum is pulled, immersed in the chemicals and then pressurized.  

This lumber came out of the treatment plant the morning before I picked it up that afternoon.  It was soaking dripping wet.  I picked the lumber up on March 13th and had it all laid by March 27th.  I know, I'm slow but there ain't but one of me.