E Classic operating temperature

doctorb · January 10, 2011, 11:44:13 PM

I might increase your water temp settings and see if I get a corresponding increase in the temp readings. If so, then the thermometer for the controller is off, and the stove senses it's supposed to heat the water to 165, but the reading is erroneously high at 185. Just a guess.

Dean186 · January 11, 2011, 11:25:16 AM

Quote from: upsnake on January 10, 2011, 08:24:33 PM
Temp of water as read by the controller = 185
Temp leaving the stove = 165

It seems weird to me that there is 20 degrees difference from the control panel to actual temp.

Jay,

I have found some inaccuracies in the 5 thermometers I purchased from Central Boiler. For the analog thermometers, one was 12 degrees off, and the another 3 degrees. The built in digital furnace thermometer was 7 degrees off.

The 20 degree difference you are reading is an error in one or both thermometers. However, there will be a difference in the readings because of the way they read the temperature and their location in the stove. The digital reading displayed on the Firestar controller is measured by a probe that is located in a housing and does not come into contact with the water. It is also located higher up in the stove and closer to the firebox. I do not know what this difference is on my stove, because I do not have a thermometer located in the stove water supply at the exit point.

Thanks for the clarification on your post. For curiosity, what is HX?

upsnake · January 11, 2011, 12:12:04 PM

HX = Heat exchanger.

http://www.gilletttax.com/Jay/owb/

The above link is some pictures of the install.
The second picture is of the thermometer that i installed on the return line right before it goes back into the burner.

The temp on that matches up to the temp as it exits the hx.

I plan on calling the dealer today to talk to them about the temp difference between the controller and the water.

upsnake · January 11, 2011, 02:01:48 PM

I just got off the phone with the dealer, and he said the water temp difference is normal.
That basically as long as it is heating the house to not worry about it.

doctorb · January 11, 2011, 03:20:16 PM

I respectfully disagree. Are you getting gasification? What is the temp inside your RC? It makes absolutley no sense that the stove is reading a temperature that is never even approached anywhere else in the system. I have outflow and inflow thermometers at the back of my E-2300. While there is slight variance between the outflow temp and the controller temp, it's very minor. I wouldn't care about 2-4 degrees, but 20???

I would be calling CB on this one and tell you dealer you are doing so. The "As long as its heating your house..." comment is irritating to me. If your stove is only getting the water temp up to a high of 165, it's not working efficiently.

upsnake · January 11, 2011, 03:30:39 PM

I think i am getting gassification. The thermometer for the reaction chamber has gone as high as 1200 degrees.

Does CB actual take calls or just push everything back to the dealer? haha

doctorb · January 11, 2011, 03:57:19 PM

I'll let others comment of the RC chamber temp, as I don't have that option.

CB has been very responsive to me on the phone. Yes, they can tell you that you need to go back to the dealer, but I would not rest with the current situation. Your unit is only a week old. Some of this is part of the learning process. Some of it sounds outside the brackets of what should be expected.

upsnake · January 11, 2011, 04:03:23 PM

I just got off the phone with CB, and got the same answer. Basically they said the controller is measuring water higher up with is going to be hotter.

Idk how much i believe it but.....

upsnake · January 11, 2011, 04:05:46 PM

I wonder if there is a way to recalibrate the tstat on the controller?
The one thing that they did say to check is to make sure that the pump is not on backwards, i am confident that it isn't but i will double check. haha

doctorb · January 11, 2011, 04:27:39 PM

Reset your controller temps. what are they set at now? I would try to increase the temps at the controller and see if you get an similar increase with you thermometer readings. Need Dean186 to discuss temperature of the e-1400.

upsnake · January 11, 2011, 05:06:41 PM

I am not sure sure what you mean by resetting them. It came from the factory at 185. I bumped it up to 192 for a couple days and it raised my actual water temp up to about 171. Then i bumped it back down to 185 on the controller which is where it currently sits.

doctorb · January 11, 2011, 05:15:40 PM

So the temp at the thermometer increased the same amount as you increased the controller. So, either CB is right, and it's normal to have a 20 degree fluctuation in temp from controller to exit pipe water temp, or you temperature guage in the contoller is not callibrated correctly or is defective, becasue when it thinks the water is 185, it's 165.

MudBud · January 11, 2011, 08:25:48 PM

After reading through the entire thread I agree with doctor....For one, if my controller is reading 190 my oil boiler temp is reading within 5 degrees lower. Also if my temp of the boiler drops to around 140 my oil takes over and its pretty close.

This weekend I will go out and shoot a couple of points with a digital thermometer to see different areas and post here, ie. Water coming right out of the OWB before the pump and after the pump. Also the return side right near it. then into the house at the boiler and before the 50 plate exchanger, after and through.

I also don't have a reaction chamber temp probe, wish I did but my E2300 is a Sept 2008 model.

If CB told me that I would not believe them. I may talk with my local rep, great guy and very knowledgeable about the stoves.

More to follow!

Keith

upsnake · January 11, 2011, 09:13:25 PM

I appreciate that Keith.

My dealer is a nice guy, and he has been helpful, but his answer was somewhat of a "it should be ok" thing.

Then when i called CB. At first the receptionist didn't really want to put me through to anybody. Just go back to the dealer. I explained that i already talked to the dealer. So i got to another lady who was very nice but.... Somewhat just sounded like ummm ya that is normal. That is what my stove does.

I don't think it helped when they asked who installed it and I said i did. Oh well. I will wait to hear what your temps are.

Dean186 · January 12, 2011, 12:27:26 PM

Quote from: upsnake on January 11, 2011, 03:30:39 PM
I think i am getting gassification. The thermometer for the reaction chamber has gone as high as 1200 degrees.

Does CB actual take calls or just push everything back to the dealer? haha

I wonder if there is a way to recalibrate the tstat on the controller?

Jay,

The stove switches to high burn mode when it reaches 750 degrees, it is in full gasification at that point and any temperature above that is better. I found on some loads that the temperature stays around 500 degrees and it is not in gasification mode. You can open the reaction chamber door and not see the jet like stream of fire.

Short answer IMO:

above 750 degrees "high burn mode" it's gassifying (not sure that is a word and if so, how do you spell it?) and

below 750 degrees "low burn mode" it's trying to gassify, but not there.

My Fire Star controller digital thermometer can not be calibrated.

upsnake · January 12, 2011, 02:11:59 PM

Ya i am hitting gassifying mode.

The morning when i load it, this last coupe of times it has struggled a little bit to hit high burn. But i have watched it other times where it is is just calling for heat and it goes right into high burn.

Everything appears to be working correctly with the stove, with the exception of the temp difference in the water. I could turn the stove up to 195, and then get 175 degree water but. Right now it is heating everything and short of continually calling CB and seeing if they give me a different answer i guess it is correct. I don't know.

doctorb · January 12, 2011, 02:22:07 PM

When I have called CB, I have spoken to one of two guys, no females. I am not saying she didn't know what she was talking about, but the puzzle is driving me crazy and I want to know the answer. I would keep after them. Ask if there's someone you can email with a question. It's just doesn't seem plausible to me to have a 20 degree temp drop on water that's basically still in the stove.

Dean186 · January 12, 2011, 03:55:30 PM

Quote from: doctorb on January 12, 2011, 02:22:07 PM
When I have called CB, I have spoken to one of two guys, no females. I am not saying she didn't know what she was talking about, but the puzzle is driving me crazy and I want to know the answer. I would keep after them. Ask if there's someone you can email with a question. It's just doesn't seem plausible to me to have a 20 degree temp drop on water that's basically still in the stove.

I agree with Doctorb. It would be almost impossible with water circulating to have a 20 degree difference. Mine various between 2 and 4 degrees.

Bioman · January 12, 2011, 04:36:04 PM

Is it possible the pump or line is restricted somewhere? You could see that kind of delta T if there was a reduction in the water flow rate. One of the TC's could be reading wrong as well.

upsnake · January 12, 2011, 04:52:05 PM

www.gilletttax.com/Jay/owb/CB.doc

I will double check the pump direction like the CB person i talked to the other day said, i didn't get a chance last night.

I measured the 165 before the pump, right on the 6 inch brass nipple that screws into the tank. So I am not sure what could be causing a block.

I have tried two different thermometers in lots of different locations in the loop and all agree with the 165 figure.

The link above is what i plan on faxing to CB. They don't have an email that i can see.

On one hand i don't want thing to trickle back to the dealer and him get mad at me, since if ever need parts or anything i need to buy them somewhere, but at the same time i would like an answer that make sense to me. haha

Bioman · January 12, 2011, 05:10:27 PM

Quote from: Dean186 on January 12, 2011, 03:55:30 PM
Quote from: doctorb on January 12, 2011, 02:22:07 PM
When I have called CB, I have spoken to one of two guys, no females. I am not saying she didn't know what she was talking about, but the puzzle is driving me crazy and I want to know the answer. I would keep after them. Ask if there's someone you can email with a question. It's just doesn't seem plausible to me to have a 20 degree temp drop on water that's basically still in the stove.

I agree with Doctorb. It would be almost impossible with water circulating and all to have a 20 degree difference. Mine various between 2 and 4 degrees.

Do you have any idea what the gpm flow is?

Dean186 · January 12, 2011, 05:38:29 PM

Quote from: Bioman on January 12, 2011, 05:10:27 PM
Do you have any idea what the gpm flow is?

I emailed TACO (the manufacture of my pump) with model of my pump and my setup and asked them about my flow rate. They emailed back a figure of 8 gpm.

Added: It would be nice if someone had a measured value to report. I would like to know some real numbers. I am sure Central Boiler has real numbers, but they seldom report the fine details of their stoves.

beenthere · January 12, 2011, 06:41:15 PM

Quote from: upsnake on January 12, 2011, 04:52:05 PM
.............I measured the 165 before the pump, right on the 6 inch brass nipple that screws into the tank. .......

This raises the question if you are reading water temp or "brass nipple" temp?
Just following lightly with interest in your differences. Hope you find what is up.

upsnake · January 12, 2011, 07:11:19 PM

Hey Beenthere,

I don't think that is the case. My reasoning is that, on the hx in the house it is 165 incoming, and as long as i have the furnace fan off, the out going on the hx is also 165, then i have a thermometer in the return temp that is actually measuring the water, and it is 165 give or take a degree.

Since everywhere else in my system are all the same I am pretty confident that the water is actually 165.

Or at least that is what makes sense in my head. Hahah

Holmes · January 12, 2011, 08:48:57 PM

The 185 temp is most likely a reading at the top of the boiler water . Sensing at the top temp. will allow the control to throttle back the fire before the water starts boiling. Your feed pipe is probably lower in the tank and you will have temperature stratification in these large capacity boilers. When your fan is on in the HX you are getting a 20 degree temp difference this is a very good number. Holmes