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DIY sawmill build

Started by Mesquite cutter, March 23, 2020, 08:25:39 AM

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RAYAR

Quote from: Mesquite cutter on June 26, 2020, 10:24:54 AM
Quote from: ktm250rider on June 26, 2020, 07:57:05 AM
Quote from: RAYAR on June 25, 2020, 10:43:02 PM
Quote from: Mesquite cutter on June 25, 2020, 02:05:23 AM
Anybody know what size belt I would need for an 18.75 OD sheave from Surplus Center?
I believe it's a 56" for a tight fit and a 57" for a looser fit, in a "B" belt.

HMMM I used a 59" type B56
How does the 59" work.  Is there slippage?  
sorry, my error, B56 = 59" and B57 = 60"
The looser fit of the B57 will not slip as the tension of the blade compresses it in the pulley V groove.
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Mesquite cutter

What type of gear box did ya'll use for the sawhead lift?  What was the gear ratio on the gear box.  I am looking at a used Iron Man Grove Gear gear box with a 20:1 ratio.  Would that be enough?
Backyard woodworker. 
DIY sawmill
Youtube:  Retired DIY Guy

JoshNZ

Are you turning a screw or winching a cable? You need to find a motor first really, figure out what its RPM is loaded and then do the math back to how quickly you want your screw turning or your cable lifting

Mesquite cutter

Quote from: JoshNZ on September 09, 2020, 11:04:05 PM
Are you turning a screw or winching a cable? You need to find a motor first really, figure out what its RPM is loaded and then do the math back to how quickly you want your screw turning or your cable lifting
I will be using an acme screw.
Backyard woodworker. 
DIY sawmill
Youtube:  Retired DIY Guy

Mesquite cutter

I might go ahead and get it.  It will only cost me $65 bucks.  If it does not work then I will break down and get a good one. 
Backyard woodworker. 
DIY sawmill
Youtube:  Retired DIY Guy

charles mann

Quote from: Mesquite cutter on September 09, 2020, 11:52:34 PM
Quote from: JoshNZ on September 09, 2020, 11:04:05 PM
Are you turning a screw or winching a cable? You need to find a motor first really, figure out what its RPM is loaded and then do the math back to how quickly you want your screw turning or your cable lifting
I will be using an acme screw.
What is the acme rod tpi? 
How much weight are you lifting? 
Im running into a similar issue, but mine is weight. X motor produces X tq, then multiply that by the ratio of the rgb gives me my final tq. But at that tq, it will take 6 minutes to travel the full 72" of acme. 
Iv even thought about using my old badlands 12k winch that the brake is burned out on, and putting high tooth count sprocket on the winch and the smallest i can get for the acme. Doing that will cut my travel time in half. 
Im debating getting a 12v dc hyd power pack to turn a hyd motor. But not sure how long that power pack will last running it for say 1-1.5 minutes during full travel times. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Iwawoodwork

I don't know about you, but I would get awful impatient waiting for my blade/ saw head to raise if it raised that slow. I'm just learning to saw and use my Mighty Mite hyd lift and it is a lot faster than 6 - 3 min, maybe  bottom to top (about 36") takes 30 seconds. I think once you get comfortable sawing you will be rebuilding your lift system if it is that slow, or if you really want it that slow build so you can easily speed it up.

JoshNZ

Just ballparking, a 12v motor might do 4500rpm loaded and if your screw was say 4mm pitch ~6tpi, you'll get a lift speed of 900mm/min or 35"/min with a 20:1. I think it will be a bit slow but in the realm of what you're after yep. A bit faster than a half inch per second.

charles mann

Quote from: Iwawoodwork on September 10, 2020, 12:48:44 AM
I don't know about you, but I would get awful impatient waiting for my blade/ saw head to raise if it raised that slow. I'm just learning to saw and use my Mighty Mite hyd lift and it is a lot faster than 6 - 3 min, maybe  bottom to top (about 36") takes 30 seconds. I think once you get comfortable sawing you will be rebuilding your lift system if it is that slow, or if you really want it that slow build so you can easily speed it up.
trust me, i do NOT want to wait that long. but I'm building a slabbing mill, and just my saw beam probably weighs what a fully assembled lt 15 start weighs. but the speed is all dependent upon what type of motor to use in conjunction with my 5 tpi acme rods. if i put an aux hyd pump, o can use a motor to run at x rpm, at x ft lbs of tq and be much faster, and still able to creep up on my cut mark. or i can put an aux generator on it, run a 24vdc, 98 vdc, 120vac motor, and be faster. I'm just trying to stay in the 12vdc range. but what i want, and what i need to use to stay in a manageable travel speed, are 2 different things. but i guess i could depend on limit switches to work, and while I'm traveling from travel/stowage height to cut height, i could be doing something else and hope the limit switch works and stops the travel before breaking something. 
but honestly, i think I'm gonna use an aux hyd pump and run a motor that exceeds the tq requirements by 2x, and have the variable speed available. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

charles mann

Quote from: JoshNZ on September 10, 2020, 02:20:29 AM
Just ballparking, a 12v motor might do 4500rpm loaded and if your screw was say 4mm pitch ~6tpi, you'll get a lift speed of 900mm/min or 35"/min with a 20:1. I think it will be a bit slow but in the realm of what you're after yep. A bit faster than a half inch per second.
where you seeing 4500 rpm 12vdc motors? not saying they aren't out there, but at that speed, tq will be very low. the 1hp 12 vdc i was looking at produces 2.92 ftlbs of tq @ 1800 rpm. multiply that by 20 produces 58 ftlbs of tq, at 80 amps draw. 
then 1800 divided by 20 is 90 rpms and depending his tpi (say 5 tpi) if my math is correct, is 18" a min. or is my math wrong on 18"/min? 58 ftlbs, for me, is max tq all the time during travel. which is why i was looking at a 30:1, but then that drops me to 12"/min and to travel 72"/6', is 6 min. 
but we aren't here for my build. sorry to hi-jack the thread. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Crusarius

Quote from: Mesquite cutter on September 09, 2020, 08:50:52 PM
What type of gear box did ya'll use for the sawhead lift?  What was the gear ratio on the gear box.  I am looking at a used Iron Man Grove Gear gear box with a 20:1 ratio.  Would that be enough?
I just bought a 12 vdc wheelchair motor straight from ebay. has 43:1 gearbox on it. With the new revisions I made on my lift with 5tpi acme rods it takes 1 minute 49 seconds from bottom to top. Thats 36" I would still like a little faster up but the down is perfect.

I have thought about adding a torsion spring for lift assist just to get a little more speed out of it. In some ways I wonder if using the torsion spring to hold the head all the way up then using the threaded rod and motor to pull it down would be better?

JoshNZ

Your math sounds right. That sounds like a slow motor though, every one I looked at was 5k+. The winch motor I ended up finding sat at 5500 so I guessed 4500 loaded.

It's got more torque than the mechanism can handle if it does jam, it wouldn't be the motor that stopped turning. Crushed my welding earth when I forgot to unclamp it from the post one day.

I started with a slower motor and reluctantly went to this one which I thought would be way too fast but it's actually really good. I can still hit marks and it's really quick to use. I'd do my whole lift in less than 30 secs I think

Crusarius

I have a 3500 pound winch motor I was experimenting with but that has a 100:1 reduction and is crazy loud. I know I could have geared it up using different sprockets but being right next to my head and as loud as it was I chose to stick to wheelchair motor.

Another option is to have raise at full power / full speed then put a resistor or a potentiometer on the lower so you can adjust speed. I thought of this but knowing my mill will sit outside I chose to have as little of electronics as possible on it.

Mesquite cutter

All this ratio talk tells me that a 20:1 ratio is not enough.  It will be pretty heavy I think.   The sawhead beam is 3"X5"X8' and 3/16 wall thickness.  The wheels will be 19 inches and bearings and mounting plates, sawhead boxes for both sides.  Some of you mention a wheel chair motor.   What ratio do you recommend for this project?
Backyard woodworker. 
DIY sawmill
Youtube:  Retired DIY Guy

charles mann

Quote from: Mesquite cutter on September 10, 2020, 03:40:22 PM
All this ratio talk tells me that a 20:1 ratio is not enough.  It will be pretty heavy I think.   The sawhead beam is 3"X5"X8' and 3/16 wall thickness.  The wheels will be 19 inches and bearings and mounting plates, sawhead boxes for both sides.  Some of you mention a wheel chair motor.   What ratio do you recommend for this project?
Iv got 90% of my saw beam built, which is most of the weight. It takes i think 30 ftlbs to get it moving and 25ish to keep it moving. My acme is 1.5" 5 tpi 72" long. 
I know about what my engine weighs, i calculated the weight of 11' 5"x5"x1/4" tubing, weighed my wheels, pulley and drive wheel drive axle/housing. Im weighing in around 1500 lbs, not counting wheel/blade guards, radiator and coolant, exhaust, fuel and tank and the power/instrument box. 
I figure 1800-2000 lbs will be my saw beam weight once finished. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Mesquite cutter

The used motor I plan to buy is manufactured by MAGNETEK.  It is a 1 HP motor with an Iron Man 20:1 gearbox with an output torque of 630 inch lbs.

I was watching Matt Cremonas video describing his motor and gearbox specs.   He has a 3/4 HP motor with a 17:1 gearbox ratio and 544 inch lbs of output torque. Torque wise and HP wise it seems like I am good.  

I will be running a 12 volt system and he as a 3 phase system on his motor.   This is where I don't know if I would not be using the proper electrical load for my setup.  
Backyard woodworker. 
DIY sawmill
Youtube:  Retired DIY Guy

Mesquite cutter

Quote from: charles mann on September 10, 2020, 04:44:21 PM
Quote from: Mesquite cutter on September 10, 2020, 03:40:22 PM
All this ratio talk tells me that a 20:1 ratio is not enough.  It will be pretty heavy I think.   The sawhead beam is 3"X5"X8' and 3/16 wall thickness.  The wheels will be 19 inches and bearings and mounting plates, sawhead boxes for both sides.  Some of you mention a wheel chair motor.   What ratio do you recommend for this project?
Iv got 90% of my saw beam built, which is most of the weight. It takes i think 30 ftlbs to get it moving and 25ish to keep it moving. My acme is 1.5" 5 tpi 72" long.
I know about what my engine weighs, i calculated the weight of 11' 5"x5"x1/4" tubing, weighed my wheels, pulley and drive wheel drive axle/housing. Im weighing in around 1500 lbs, not counting wheel/blade guards, radiator and coolant, exhaust, fuel and tank and the power/instrument box.
I figure 1800-2000 lbs will be my saw beam weight once finished.
1,500 pounds just for the sawhead assembly!  Wow then I guess my weight estimate on mine is way off.  It will not be as much but still heavy. 
Backyard woodworker. 
DIY sawmill
Youtube:  Retired DIY Guy

Mesquite cutter

What type of blade tensioning system are ya'll using on your sawmills?   I have seen hydraulic tension, spring tension and straight up screw adjusting tension.  I hear that the hydraulic tension is the best but also the most expensive from what I have seen. 
Backyard woodworker. 
DIY sawmill
Youtube:  Retired DIY Guy

JoshNZ

Charles is building a different kind of saw mill, ignore him  :D :D.

Work it backwards, if your screws will be 5tpi (?) Your lift speed in inches/min = motorRPM / gearbox ratio larger number / 5 (tpi of screw). Plug in numbers you can't change and play with numbers you can until you arrive somewhere acceptable.

I didn't use a RGB for mine, I used a pinion and diff gear (both straight tooth) out of the wheelchair I got my first motor from. Think I'd prefer a sealed gearbox but it is a way to do it cheaply. The wheelchair was 24V and running it on 12v didn't quite get the torque I needed. I changed to a 500watt DC motor and it's got enough to damage itself if it jams, my screws are turned on my own lathe, and rubbish, and steel nuts, and caked in grease and sawdust, and still unstoppable. So I would think with the power you're torquing about (hehe) I wouldn't even worry about it the torque numbers.

Mesquite cutter

How do ya'll have your belt drive system set up?  Do ya'll have it set up direct drive to the drive wheel or is it engaged with a clutch?
Backyard woodworker. 
DIY sawmill
Youtube:  Retired DIY Guy

charles mann

@ Mesquite cutter
I will be using for the time being, a porta-power like cremona, but will add in some springs for a dynamic absorber. 
Plus the power unit weighs 700 lbs, minus radiator, coolant and exhaust system. 

I am at the point of building my blade tensioning and working out my belt tensioning. 
Mine is direct pulley to pulley. I wanted a clutch system, and may spend the $2000 at a latter date for a clutch. But for now, ill either use a linear actuator or a manual lever and linkage a brake system, made out of a car brake rotor that has had the disk machined off and a few clean up passed to the "drum", which will be bolted to my drive axle. 

@JoshNZ

Yep, will be able to mill almost anything i can get my hands on and as of now, everything i have gotten my hands on. 
But my tck mounted crane will come in handy when it comes time load and turn those 6,000# and less logs. Plus i'll be able to lift the carriage, turn it 90° for transport and become a wide cut portable slabbing mill. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Mesquite cutter

Quote from: charles mann on September 10, 2020, 07:04:58 PM
@ Mesquite cutter
I will be using for the time being, a porta-power like cremona, but will add in some springs for a dynamic absorber.
Plus the power unit weighs 700 lbs, minus radiator, coolant and exhaust system.

I am at the point of building my blade tensioning and working out my belt tensioning.
Mine is direct pulley to pulley. I wanted a clutch system, and may spend the $2000 at a latter date for a clutch. But for now, ill either use a linear actuator or a manual lever and linkage a brake system, made out of a car brake rotor that has had the disk machined off and a few clean up passed to the "drum", which will be bolted to my drive axle.

@JoshNZ

Yep, will be able to mill almost anything i can get my hands on and as of now, everything i have gotten my hands on.
But my tck mounted crane will come in handy when it comes time load and turn those 6,000# and less logs. Plus i'll be able to lift the carriage, turn it 90° for transport and become a wide cut portable slabbing mill.
$2000 or $200 for a clutch?. 
Backyard woodworker. 
DIY sawmill
Youtube:  Retired DIY Guy

charles mann

Quote from: Mesquite cutter on September 10, 2020, 07:18:24 PM
Quote from: charles mann on September 10, 2020, 07:04:58 PM
@ Mesquite cutter
I will be using for the time being, a porta-power like cremona, but will add in some springs for a dynamic absorber.
Plus the power unit weighs 700 lbs, minus radiator, coolant and exhaust system.

I am at the point of building my blade tensioning and working out my belt tensioning.
Mine is direct pulley to pulley. I wanted a clutch system, and may spend the $2000 at a latter date for a clutch. But for now, ill either use a linear actuator or a manual lever and linkage a brake system, made out of a car brake rotor that has had the disk machined off and a few clean up passed to the "drum", which will be bolted to my drive axle.

@JoshNZ

Yep, will be able to mill almost anything i can get my hands on and as of now, everything i have gotten my hands on.
But my tck mounted crane will come in handy when it comes time load and turn those 6,000# and less logs. Plus i'll be able to lift the carriage, turn it 90° for transport and become a wide cut portable slabbing mill.
$2000 or $200 for a clutch?.
$2000
Ogura or something like, is 1 of the clutch makers and to handle the 100 horses from the diesel (hope i dont ever need all of them) i gotta pay the piper. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Mesquite cutter

Quote from: charles mann on September 10, 2020, 07:21:15 PM
Quote from: Mesquite cutter on September 10, 2020, 07:18:24 PM
Quote from: charles mann on September 10, 2020, 07:04:58 PM
@ Mesquite cutter
I will be using for the time being, a porta-power like cremona, but will add in some springs for a dynamic absorber.
Plus the power unit weighs 700 lbs, minus radiator, coolant and exhaust system.

I am at the point of building my blade tensioning and working out my belt tensioning.
Mine is direct pulley to pulley. I wanted a clutch system, and may spend the $2000 at a latter date for a clutch. But for now, ill either use a linear actuator or a manual lever and linkage a brake system, made out of a car brake rotor that has had the disk machined off and a few clean up passed to the "drum", which will be bolted to my drive axle.

@JoshNZ

Yep, will be able to mill almost anything i can get my hands on and as of now, everything i have gotten my hands on.
But my tck mounted crane will come in handy when it comes time load and turn those 6,000# and less logs. Plus i'll be able to lift the carriage, turn it 90° for transport and become a wide cut portable slabbing mill.
$2000 or $200 for a clutch?.
$2000
Ogura or something like, is 1 of the clutch makers and to handle the 100 horses from the diesel (hope i dont ever need all of them) i gotta pay the piper.
Ouch!
Backyard woodworker. 
DIY sawmill
Youtube:  Retired DIY Guy

JoshNZ

Id be pulling the clutch from a car if I were you Charles haha bugger that. Put a linear actuator on the release bearing fork, or a lever and cable near your operator station.

Mine was ~$100US it's a little centrifugal and pulls ok with 22hp turning it. I did get a bit of crap stuck in there one day I think, and made it weak, I just deglazed the drum with a ScotchBrite and sanded the shoes and it was good to go again.

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