LT15 vs LT15 wide?

[gump]

After considering buying a bandsaw mill for sometime now, I have narrowed my search to the Wood-Mizer LT15 or LT15 wide. Original thinking was to go mobile and be able to generate a bit of income in retirement. I have enough planned projects to do that I do not need to travel and I can save a lot in the initial capital investment by down grading from an LT35 to LT 15. I also don't want the headaches of other peoples schedules or commitments. We will be moving off-grid to our woodlot (160acres) and homesteading there. We currently have a very comfortable log cabin with minimal solar power and running water during the summer months. I have made the decision that a stationary mill is all I require. Over the next several years I need to construct several buildings... a structure for the mill, new bathhouse/sauna which will give us running water year round while building the new house, new wood shed, equipment storage shed, maple sugar house and finally new house!! I have a nice woodlot with a nice mixture of wood of different age classes and species.
I am considering sawing the bigger soft wood on the woodlot myself and selling the more uniform smaller diameter logs locally as they would rather that type of wood anyway. I also have a fair amount of Hardwood that is saw log worthy which I would like to saw as well.
This leads to my recent dilemma of getting the wide mill or not. I had already decided on upgrading the LT15 to the 25 hp with power feed. Seeing I plan on cutting larger diameter trees and potentially sell some wider type material I have been thinking of the LT15 wide. Given the upgrades I was making to the LT15 this would only be a little more than a couple thousand canadian dollars more. I do have a loader to help with bigger logs etc..But essentially I am all alone with no help unless grandchildren want to help once they get old enough .
I have searched and haven't found anything in helping me finalizing this decision yet. I am ready to "pull the trigger" on this mill within the next week or so.
My background is forestry and woodlot management. This sawing adventure is completely new to me. Looking forward to retirement within 5 years and enjoying my woodlot.
Any help or advise is greatly appreciated.

[thecfarm]

Those big ones are a bear to handle alone. They can make a "thud"when they hit the mill too. I sell my big logs and saw the small ones.   ;D About 1½ feet across is good for me. I had a big one on my manual mill, I could turn it,but could not dog it in,until it was squared on 2 sides. I had to get the wife to dog it in. Yes,you can use a tractor,but lots of getting on and off and only one more inch,turns into 2 inches than back to one.

[Stuart Caruk]

Ordinarilly, I'd say that you can always run the blade guides in on a wide to cut smaller logs, but you can't cut big logs on a smaller machine. But, yes, with a manual mill, unless you have the support equipment to roll the logs and flip the cants, you're just creating a ton of work for yourself. I can't imagine a mill without hydraulic log handling anymore.

[Percy]

I see you said you have a loader....so my vote is WIDE. 35 inches between the guides at max and a heavier frame than the non wide 15. Neat thing about these mills is if you figure you need more in the future, unloading/selling is easy and used prices stay reasonable.

[dgdrls]

Well..  with 160 Ac which I assume has tree's I would suggest wheels under the mill.
What about the LT28 with the deck package?  All the advantages of the Monorail
and can even get it with a diesel.

Best
D

[Southside]

I hear what you are saying as I was trying to make the same decision when I got my first mill - which is still the one I am running today, but at some point here in the near future will become my first mill as I need one that can do more.  Personally having hydraulics over width would be my priority - when doing my searching I figured who needs the hydro - I have a peavey and a strong back, but my wife convinced me to get hydraulics and I can tell you that was the smartest decision I made.  You can always breakdown a big one with a chainsaw if you need to, you can always Bibby the log if you need to, but good luck muscling a 16' hard maple 26" in diameter that has a sweep to it. Yes your loader can move it - just be sure to get the placement of your forks just right so you don't break something on your mill. 

You mention retirement - give fair thought to log handling for sure.

[starmac]

I would just generally say wide, and really still will, but wide and manual, really does not go together. In fact you flat out lost me when you mentioned retirement, as that and manual doesn't really go together either. In my opinion a manual mill is a young mans game, and even then a good way to make an old man out of a young one.

[thecfarm]

Just to bang this around some more,I came this close on buying a wide Thomas and I mean this close. I almost did it. I looked at that wide mill real hard.Glad I did not now. I don't have the need for wide stuff. And from what I hear on here,it takes that much more work to get the job done. Yes,if you have a market for wide slabs or whatever wide,than you are all set. And of course the equipment to handle the wide stuff too.

[gump]

Thanks for all the input guys.  All the points mentioned are exactly what I am debating in my mind. I like the idea of the wide mill to handle the larger diameter logs without having to use a chainsaw to get them down to size. Also I like the idea of having wider live edge pieces especially with hardwood. The big thing is man handling the larger logs! The loader i currently have is a grapple loader on my forestry trailer, which can "gingerly" (haha) pick up and roll the logs in place?? Production is not an issue, but in reality if I can't physically roll these bigger ones around it's not worth it. This mill is really for personal use, although I could sell some "specialty type lumber". I will revisit hydraulics, but I was hoping to save that extra money which could come in handy if I need to purchase another piece of equipment! Mobility is definitely not in the cards. I just see that once you go hydraulics, you have wheels that you are paying for. I can modify the mill for toe boards, but not sure if I can modify for log turning myself.?

[tobryant1]

I am in your same boat but I ended up recently purchasing the LT15 go with a diesel.  I wanted a wide but in my history of cutting wood on my father in law's manual Timber king 1220 for the past 13 years  made me rethinking that.  I could only remember a handful of logs that ever came close to the max width capacity of the mill winch I believe was 32" inches or so.

99% of the logs we cut were in the 20-24" diameter.  Everything outside of that was really too much to handle by one's self.  I'm a big dude as 6'4" and 300 lb and I dreaded having to turn a large oak at 24" on that mill myself.  I would always save the larger logs for when I had help. 

I see the LT15 wide as a mill for someone who wants to do wood working where length is not really the biggest concern.  I felt as if I was going to make table tops and cabinets it would be a good fit.  My goal with my mill is to build structures and a house.  So I went with a portable LT15.

Just my way of thinking, both are good just think about what you really want to get out if your mill.

[WV Sawmiller]

Gump,

   I am with Southside on the hydraulics. I was contemplating an LT15Go with trailer package and my wife and friends talked me into the hydraulics and best move I ever made. Trust me - you will have a lot more fun with the hydraulics to handle those big ones.

    I'm still waiting for more input on the wide mills to see how well they cut that wide stuff. I realize 95% or more of the time a regular mill could handle the logs. And when you do cut that really wide stuff how much trouble is it to handle and process too?

    Good luck.

[Brad_bb]

I have an LT15go.  I make a lot of beams so far for myself.  I have 2 extensions on it. 95% of the time I only use the extensions to slide flitches off onto so they can be edged later.  I could probably get rid of the second extension and have a roller rack instead. 

LT15 is good for beams, and I like cutting logs that are closer to the beam size so I have less waste and few boards come off before I have my beam.  LT15 is A LOT of work to roll logs.  For the very largest logs that max out the mill, I use my forklift to take them off the mill and roll on the ground(usually on a a pair of stickers/bunks) and set back on the mill to cut the next side.  I'm doing that now with about 8 Ash logs that are 30 inches on the small end and up to 35 on the large end.

The opening between the guides of an LT15 is 24.5".  in order to get large logs on the mill like the ash mentioned above I am chainsawing two sides so that the width is 26"-27", preferably 26".  They say you can cut a 28" log on the LT15, which is technically true.  That is the max space before the outer carriage leg cannot get past the log.  I want my width under 28" though. For the number of hardwood logs I get above 26 inches wide, It's not the worst thing to chainsaw them.  zo
I've probably got 100 logs/sticks in the yard and only 10 or so need ripping with the chainsaw first.  It's work, but so is rolling logs on the mill.  You can also choose to only get logs under 28 inches.  Sometimes you only need to trim the butt end of the log which isn't too bad and should be done with all logs ahead of time to make them as cylindrical as possible before they ever go up on the mill.

What you really have to consider is how often you'd need the wide function or the extra length of extensions.  I can deal with wider stuff in 3 ways:  Rip with chainsaw as mentioned, don't buy oversized logs. or cut really wide stuff with my chainsaw mill.  Chainsaw mill is a lot of work too, so I only break it out for really big stuff like table slabs, or once I cut a 25 foot ash that was straight, 29" on the small end and 43" on the butt.  I broke it down to an 18"x25' cant.  I can then get it on my LT15 with extensions.

I really wish the LT15 could be upgraded to hydraulics easily.   80% of what I cut could really benefit from that, taking a lot of the manual work out of it and making sawing faster. 

In the end I need the length of my mill with at least one extension.  I also have to stick with a two rail mill because I have the MP100 beam planer which only works on a two rail mill.

If anyone has a rally well designed hydraulic package to upgrade my LT15 mill, I'd be a customer.  I want a log chain turner, and two plane clamps.

[sawdusty1]

I have the LT15 and Brad is spot on.  With a manual mill, you don't want anything wider than 25".    I turn my really big ones with my pallet fork lift,  but you have to anchor your mill really well.  I can lift 3000 lbs with my tractor and roll even the biggest of logs onto the mill. 

[elk42]

  sawdusty1
     I have the Lt 15x25 hp.  my mill sits on 9" wF  with log turner rolls back and forth
on it with 3500# winch the largest was a syp 42' that I got 8 2x12x42'

  

  

  

  

   I have 2 winches on the log turner frame now to keep the log from hitting the deck so hard.   
Check my Gallery for other pictures that might help.

[pineywoods]

http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,39860.0.html

Home made hydraulics.. works good on lt15

[sawdusty1]

PineyWoods and Elk.   Nice!   As my grandad use to say "use your head for something besides a hat rack. 

[WV Sawmiller]

Brad,

   You use extensions to stage flitches while those of us with the hydraulics use the loading arms like a table for that purpose. I'd be lost without them for that purpose. I tried setting up sawhorses and staging similar sized flitches on them for edging but the juice wasn't worth the squeeze to me. I edge all my flitches off the log/cant they came off of so don't normally have over 4-5.

[Brad_bb]

WV sawmiller, I've found It can be more difficult to edge flitches with the cant if they are big logs.  For example if the log is going to create a 20"-24" cant, It's very difficult to.  After cutting the flitch you'd have to walk around to the other side of the mill and flip the 2" thick flitch down, but now there's not enough room for the flitch plus the clamps. The cant has to get down to something like 16" or 18" in order to have enough room for the flitch and the clamp.  Even then is not fun walking around the mill to set it up, then walk around again after it's edged.  And then you've only edged one side and maybe your cant is too big to edge the other side, so you have to go around again and take the flitch off.  That is why I save the outer flitches until I'm done with the cant. I'll have anywhere from 3-6 flitches/boards, sometimes a combination of 5/4 and 8/4.  Sometimes I'll gurn the 5/4 into stickers if I need to.  After the cant is done, I'll slide those usually one by one, as the 2" ones are so heavy, back up the mill against my uprights and edge them.  I'm more or less milling by myself these days.  My buddy is there  3 days a week and can help when I really need it, like rolling a big cant, but I have him mostly doing other stuff - de-nailing barnwood, or draw knifing and sanding live edge stuff while I'm milling. 

[SawyerTed]

I spent the last year studying on this very issue.  I thought a stationary LT15 would be fine.  I was scheduled to go last week, I had the quotes for the LT15 and LT15 wide in hand, money lined up to buy.

THEN I read this thread (I've been lurking here for almost 2 years).  I pulled the trigger on the LT35HD25 for the very reasons outlined in the posts above.  Spending a day rolling logs on a friend's manual mill last week didn't hurt either.

I strongly suggest you spend some time on a manual mill.  It will change your mind if you work alone or with one light weight helper.

[gump]

Thanks everybody for the input. Hydraulics are out!  I would love to have them, but I don't want to have that added expense going into retirement. Time is on my side!!
I am leading towards the wide. Most of the time I will be sawing smaller diameter material, Larger diameter material I  will "stock pill" until I get extra help if needed.

[Southside]

Completely your decision, but just saying, Hydraulics are cheaper than hernias.

[thecfarm]

Or go with smaller logs.  ;D
I only saw for me. There is no way that I could afford or maintain a hyd mill.

[Darrel]

I would not want to be without hydraulics but at times I have wished that I had spent the same amount of money buying a manual mill and a good tractor with hydraulics.

[Deere80]

Been there done that.  I had a manual mill and had no complaints on its capabilities of cutting but it was handling the logs.  You always end up with logs bigger and uglier than you want to deal with but that is what you have.  So I sold it and bought one with hydraulics.  I have a skidsteer with a grapple bucket and it was still a pain the butt.  For one you can't see what your doing that great and I was always bumping into the bed rails of the mill with the skidsteer.  But it is your choice and you have to buy what you think is going to fit your bill.

[gump]

Decision made..LT15 Wide! Now a month long wait begins.February will be a long month this year!!