New Shed in the Works

[beenthere]

The wood species most used for the end-grain wood blocks was Douglas fir (when local woods were used early on, before D. fir was transported to the industrial mid west locations)

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/i-was-there-4

And in the late 1800's,

https://www.landmarks-stl.org/news/the_creosoted_wood_block_one_step_in_the_evolution_of_st_louis-paving/

[Andries]

Thank you OG and BT.
I've learned to hate creosote on wood, and the old time factory floors were soaked in it, according to these articles. 
I can't imagine how godawful one of those factories would've
been on a hot summer day! 
Details like this make history come alive.
So, I'm guessing that Howard's "Shed Design Team" took a pass on this flooring?  :D

[WV Sawmiller]

Andries,

   You did not read deep enough. :D The design committee are the cause of the flooring! I was happy with and planning another dirt floor on my new extension - my 4th bay. I mentioned/started with questions about how to store heavy LE slabs and we came up with a vertical bin mostly from ljohnsaw's drawings that matched my plans but they needed a stable floor so I was going to build 2'-3' wide base then Tom/OGH and others got off on the need for gravel and before long I had a ton of gravel down then decided with another ton I could do the whole bay then they pointed out I had to build some containment or my gravel would spread and I'd lose it so then I built formwork for the gravel. After that I used cut locust posts into 2" LE sleepers I laid on top of the plastic vapor barrier (Another committee must have) then I used a bunch of 2X2 strips for "Floor Joists" and nailed a bunch of stock 4/4 boards on that for the floor and amazingly - I liked it. I built the bins including little parallel OGH strips to stand the slabs on and stored about 60 slabs and fireplace mantels and realized that only took care of half what I had in hand. Of course some "helpful committee member" (I'd have to go back and see who at this point) pointed out I had an adjoining bay aching to have a floor that would be perfect for the extra storage. I cleared out the remaining stock in the adjacent bay and the rest is history.  ;)

   I am nearly ready to start cutting some more uprights and starting the bins in this second bay.

   So don't think the design committee was not involved. If I had poured any concrete they'd have wanted to come down and put their paws in it to leave their palm prints for eternity. :D This is very much a group effort.

[Old Greenhorn]

Howard, I think what Andries meant was that we "took a pass" on the end grain flooring.
 In fact it never crossed my mind. But if it had, yeah, I would have discounted it. First, you need heavily worked ground to pull that off, it has to be dead level and flattened with a tamped sand bed. Then each block has to be laid and fitted and the last blocks to fill in the sections could be a bear to get it right. Edges all need to have solid support like timbers or concrete.
 When they would open up a section, they would get a maintenance apprentice on the job and he would be there for a long time filling bins with blocks. All I could think of was what it was like to lay that floor in the first place, with millions of blocks and all that sand to level perfectly and tamp each block home. I would not wish that on Howard or any of my friends.
 Thinking back on the creosote thing, I am not so sure they did use it. There was no odor at all. I just made the assumption based on color. But back in the 40's almost all machining equipment used a Sulphur based oil, which is a dark brown and nearly black. So more than likely, that's what I saw.
 There was noting 'typical' about that plant. The general machine shop floor space was probably 100 yards square. Then there were about a dozen secured machine and fab shop in other parts of the building each assigned to a development team which worked on just one or two projects at a time. Access to those was a 'need to know' only, so I never saw them. That was the 'cake job' to get. You answered to nobody but your team. The job was one guy would ask one of the guys on those teams what he was making and the other guy would say "What I am working on is so top secret that even I don't know what I am doing." funny thing was, many times that was true.
 There were at least two Military bases (offices) inside the plant at any given time. During my tenure it they were the US Navy and the Turkish Navy. There was a full hospital with operating suite, a medial clinics, and optometrists office to do glasses for all the employees, a bank, a credit union, a huge cafeteria, an executive dining room up stairs, two stores, and armed security everywhere. When you went out back it looked and felt like you were dropped off in the middle of a military base anywhere in the world. Sperry-Vickers used to operate there and one Saturday while poking around at lunch time, we found a bunch of old casting patterns for their motorcycle engines.
 There was a lot more to it such as the gym's, weight rooms, bowling alley, rifle range, and a long list of other stuff I never found out about.  The place was huge and during WWII they had 20,000 folks working there on 3 shifts.
 Sorry for the diversion, I just had not thought of that place in decades.
 

[Andries]

To clarify, OGH is clear on what I meant: that the design committee considered and rejected the end grain floor.
Keep up the good work youse guys on the Design Committee. 
Remember, the Taj Mahal wasn't built without some consternation.. 😉

[21incher]

Great job but one thing I have seen with a floor setup like that is mice, rats, chipmunks, and other small critters like to nest in the gaps under it. Hardware cloth sealed up around the outside laying about a foot out can help control that scenario and keep colonies from getting huge and smelly.

[Old Greenhorn]

I thought the Taj Mahal was built by Ustad Ahmad Lahori, who knew? I gues your learn something new each day. Now I gotta go look up who this Costernation guy is and see what else he did.

[WV Sawmiller]

21,

 Then the mice and chipmunks and eventually the groundhogs and all are going to immigrate to my place because I have a 2" space between the sleepers and plastic sheet on top of the gravel and my board floor. That sounds like ideal housing space for them.  ;)  Most any critter could chew or tear through the plastic and dig through the gravel and dirt below if he wanted to. (I'm thinking mostly something like a groundhog.)

 We are far enough south that when the mice and chipmunk population gets big enough the copperheads and canebrake rattlesnakes should move it to feast on them and that will provide an extra layer of security.

  Come to think of it - maybe I need to post signs around my lumber storage area saying "Beware - enter at own risk as poisonous snakes are present."  If I'd had those signs up in the past it might have prevented a theft or two out there.

[SawyerTed]

Remember, the Taj Mahal wasn't built without some consternation.. 😉

Nothing I do seems to be free of visits from Murphy & Consternation. 
With impeccable timing, Consternation seems to follow Mr. Murphy and application of his law.

Those guys show up and the air turns blue.

[gspren]

Back to the end grain floors :D I worked at a Borg Warner factory in the 70s-80s and the area where we did the tool and die/fixture making had end grain floors. Only complaint was some types of metal chips, especially what came off a shaper, would get walked into the grain and were hard to sweep up, sometimes needed pliers to pull them. The production area was concrete.

[WV Sawmiller]

   We had a dreary, cold day with occasional spitting snow and I had to work on a minor plumbing issue first thing in the morning so not a lot done. I went out mid afternoon to feed the horse and bring in some firewood and such. The horse saw me coming and ran over by the gate and the first thing I knew he had fallen on top of the fence and was just laying there. I walked over and tried to pull him up but he weighs about 1600-1700 lbs. While he was laying there I saw him reach over and eat a multi-flora rose sprout so that was a good sign. He struggled trying to get up and rolled on over the fence and dropped on his side a couple feet to the road below. I was afraid he'd broken some ribs or something but he got up and started to walk toward the house. I called him and he turned around and walked to his stall and I fed him a gallon of sweet feed and he ate that with no apparent problems. I finished hauling him a bale of hay up the hill and got a cart load of firewood I'd cut earlier then let the horse out and he walked up to eat some hay and strolled on up in the pasture. I will see how he is doing in the morning. He is about 33 years old but has been pretty healthy. I think he just slipped on the wet trail. I went up and fixed the fence and piddled on the shed a little.

  I finished the floor by adding a full length 1X6. I did cut out a half inch notch to fit by the center upright. Then I added a 7' 1X4 from the center to the rear where the bay is a little wider there. That pretty much covers all the 2X2 floor joists.

  Then I went over and added 2- 2X4s and a 2X6 to frame in the front area between the new and previous bay to nail wall boards to. I guess the next phase is back to bin building. I did not take a camera so no picture but not a lot of changes to show anyway.

[RetiredTech]

  Scrolling through topics a couple days ago your floor caught my eye. I had to go back and read the whole thing from the beginning. Very interesting thread. I found some very useful information and just wanted to say Good job. It looks great.

[WV Sawmiller]

 

 
Lousy weather again with sleet and drizzle and more mud. This shelf at the back of the bay had to be moved. Turned out just needed to remove 3 screws and drive up 5-6 8d nail where they had been nailed into the 2X4 frame it is sitting on. Was made from a 1" X 14"X 9' ash board. Very simple but effective. I removed the crates and cookies and such there and took the shelf down.


 
I put up a couple of 6' uprights and nailed some 2' 1X4's for braces to connect to the next upright. I am at a standstill now till I saw some 15' 2X4s for the left side and about a dozen 10-12 ft long 2X4s for uprights for the bins.

[WV Sawmiller]

 

 
I got up to find nasty white stuff on the ground. View of my home from up in the pasture above.

   I cut 9 - 15' 2X4s yesterday and started put them in for my bins today. I see I will need to cut 6 more 2X4s about 10' long to finish my bins. Plumber in the AM and trip with wife to take sewing machine to the shop in the afternoon may kill tomorrow. I got a good bit done today but had to stop to take my truck to get a new pair of shoes then I got some more done after I got back.


 
This is the last framing I put up for wall between the 2 doors on the front of the last 2 bays. (Yeah - I know I need to do a good police call and pick up all the cut off boards.)

 


 
This is 2 bins, one in each bay, behind the wall framing showed above. It will accommodate 10' plus slabs and will handle my remaining fireplace mantels and a couple more big 10-6" walnut pieces.  I only need 1-2 more short pieces then the anti-kickback pieces on the floor and the OGH strips and they will be ready to use.


 
This is the new framing start of the bins on the left/long side on the new bay. I need more uprights here.


 
The will be the bins on the back wall. They will handle slabs up to 9'

  I connected the 2X4 uprights to the horizontal framing using 60d nails/spikes. I drilled through the wide part of the upright 2X4 and 2" into the horizontal 2X4. That made for a real quick and easy and a vey strong connection but I need more spikes as I used nearly all the 3.5 lbs I got yesterday.

  I got a lot done and the rest will go quickly and it will be ready to use real soon.

[doc henderson]

Nice place Howard.  You should retire there.    It sounds like you deserve it based on the tales of your travels.  what a cool place for the grandkids to visit.  a trip back in time.  the shed included.  God bless!

[WV Sawmiller]

Doc,

   The first winter here my wife got on the kids steel runner sled from up about where I took the picture and she missed the turn to the left and piled up in a multi-flora rose bush. We got chainsaws and cut her out. I brought back snow racers from Norway and I haul them up the hill there with my ATV and let the grandkids ride them down. Also I tie 3 of the snow racers end to end and tow them behind the ATV and play crack the whip on the sharp turns. They have a blast. When no snow I hook the 3' X 4' cart to the ATV, throw a bale of hay in the back that take the little kids for a "Hay ride" around the flatter areas. They love that too.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Been a rough couple of days. My simple plumbing job turned into a major project - cut and cap a long line full of grease which could not be cleared. It never should have had that long a run from a kitchen sink anyway and all in the wall with limited or no access. The plumber will come back Monday with a backhoe and dig down to the septic tank which is 4-5 ft underground and run a new line and tie in. I had to make access to the pipes from the basement which meant removing a ceiling fan with light fixture to get a panel off. I'll have to take down a panel of chain link fence for him to get his excavator in the yard but I have identified one that won't take long or be hard to put back.

 When the plumber left we rushed to the sewing machine repair shop in Radford VA 90 minutes away and just barely got there before they closed. We went to a big Chinese Buffet place there then realized both of us had rushed out without our wallets so no money, and no plastic. : Had to return and was 7:30 pm before we got to eat with nothing eaten all day. I was one hungry, worn out puppy!

 This morning another man came with his backhoe and cleaned out the ditch in my backyard so hopefully that will drain and dry up soon. Of course now I have to blade down the dirt and mud he removed. So now I will have my front and back yards messed up. :

  I bucked off a 12' poplar log and pulled it to the mill with my ATV. I'll saw it next week. I installed the rest of the cut uprights and put in the rest of the cross pieces for and the anti-kickback protection in the finished bins. Now all I need it 6 more uprights and the kickplates for them and that will go real quick. I did not take pictures of todays work but the next one should be of the finished project ready for use.

  We go to Atlanta tomorrow for a memorial service Saturday for my last maternal aunt then bring my mom back with us. Overnight in Charlotte and spend all day Sunday with our daughter and grandkids. My mom has not seen them since they were a newborn so I am sure she will love that. We'll come back to WV that evening then spend the week and we have another local GD birthday the next weekend and the whole family will be together for that.

 If the weather permits I'll saw the 12' poplar log and finish the bins while Mom watches. She has never seen my mill in operation and that will be a good one to demo. I only need the 6 more uprights and the crosspieces are already waiting for them so that is a few minutes easy work.

[WV Sawmiller]

 

 
After sawing the 2X4's I finished the bins today. Here is a picture of the tall bins at the front of the shed. My 93 y/o mom is in one of the bins. She sat on one of my benches and watched as I finished the work. These bins will hold slabs up to about 11' long which will include some fireplace mantels. I noticed as I took this picture a missing cross piece on the left side so I added one more 30" 2X4 cross piece after this picture.


 
These are the bins on the left side of the bay as you face it. This side is 14' and slopes from about 11' at the front to 9' at the back and includes one corner bin.


 
This is the back bins. I have 2 plus the corner one and they will hold slabs up to about 9' tall.

  The bins are ready to use. (Don't tell him but the OGH strips are not included here as most of the last slabs did not sit on them anyway). It will likely be next week before I get around to moving slabs in to fill them.

[doc henderson]

I am sure your mom is proud.  8) Please do not tell her all the mean things we say about you.    I do not want her mad at me!  

[Don P]

Are the tops of the uprights hooked to anything? If not move Mom before she hears you cussin :D. Those slabs are heavy  .

[WV Sawmiller]

Don,

   I will double check the outer uprights when I go out there again. I know the middle one is attached to that 2X6 crosspiece between the uprights so it is very stable. If they look like they need more support I can nail another piece to both of them to give them extra support. 

[WV Sawmiller]

 

 
Don,

   Here is a picture of the right upright as you face the shed. it is against and nailed to the 2X6 rafter so it is rock solid. The center upright is the same.


 
There is a 2" gap between the rafter and the right upright. I will probably just nail up a 4' long 1X4 to connect all three uprights and that should suffice to satisfy all the safety concerns of the safety sub-committee of the design committee, don't you think? ;) :D 

[WV Sawmiller]

I am sure your mom is proud.  8) Please do not tell her all the mean things we say about you.    I do not want her mad at me!  

Doc,
   She already knows about the abuse because she saw me crying one day and when she first got here and she asked me why and I told he it was because of the bullies who were always picking on me. She told me that as usual I was just being overly sensitive and to not let it worry me. Then she gave me a glass of milk and a cookie and everything was all right again. ;D

[Old Greenhorn]

Not to worry Howard, when Doc and I and some others see you at the project, we will all get together and give you a big group hug! That should make it all better. ;D

[WV Sawmiller]

    Yeah! And after the hug you can be assured I am going to check to see if my wallet is missing! :D :D :D