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Anyone have tips for catching thieves?

Started by farmfromkansas, May 19, 2021, 08:26:55 AM

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dgdrls

Almost nothing worse than a thief

You have to be on YOUR GAME for this to work,
Start setting some big spring traps around the place with
 some tripwire pyrotechnics

coupled with the cameras 

D

farmfromkansas

If I were to set up some big traps, would probably step in them myself. 
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

Walnut Beast

Quote from: dgdrls on May 20, 2021, 06:06:45 PM
Almost nothing worse than a thief

You have to be on YOUR GAME for this to work,
Start setting some big spring traps around the place with
some tripwire pyrotechnics

coupled with the cameras  

D
And you hurt the thief then they sue you and own your place 😂. Sounds crazy it happens. And it's happened to people that were nice to someone they gave permission to hunt or something and get hurt and get sued for a bundle. First thing a lawyer will find out is if the person owns property and there ready to go to work. It's best to be smart to protect your property or you could loose it 

GRANITEstateMP

Quote from: Southside on May 20, 2021, 07:31:10 AM
I have been told that ground penetrating radar can't see under log piles.
on the farm, there is an old "stump dump". Yes, many stumps were dumped there, and many cows that died with meds/treatment in them went there too, plus lots of mixed fill, barn debris, etc. If the need to bury something that's out to hurt my family comes up, that's where it'll end up...or if I ever really anger the wife, that's where I'll end up!
Pretty sure that radar would go crazy with all the bones it'd see!
My first call at the hint of a problem isn't always 911. I've got a few good neighbors, we try and take care of each other first
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Don P

I was on a remote jobsite camping out. The mason had already been hit. It was late, a car pulled in kind of slow and stealthy, we were better than a mile off the road. They spotted me about the time I levelled the 12 gauge and i strongly considered decorating the back of the car. A few weeks later I met a nice young man, a neighbor. Yup, he was looking for a place to do a little spooning. Go very carefully when you assume.

Will.K

Quote from: Don P on May 20, 2021, 08:54:34 PM
I was on a remote jobsite camping out. The mason had already been hit. It was late, a car pulled in kind of slow and stealthy, we were better than a mile off the road. They spotted me about the time I levelled the 12 gauge and i strongly considered decorating the back of the car. A few weeks later I met a nice young man, a neighbor. Yup, he was looking for a place to do a little spooning. Go very carefully when you assume.
I've three times been detained at gunpoint by landowners who caught me trespassing, and I've appeared trespassing on probably hundreds of cameras. Happily, people aren't quite as trigger happy as they pretend to be when mouthing off, and I've never left an encounter with a landowner on bad terms. Those showing game camera photos here shouldn't make the mistake of assuming everyone appearing is a thief. Whether or not you want to pitch a fit about a fisherman, or a hiker, or a mushroom hunter, or a caver, or kids playing, or anyone who wanders across your scrap of earth is up to your temperament and the specifics of the situation, but ignorantly assuming the worst in people makes a macho man look like a moron every time.

farmfromkansas

There is a picture of the vehicle driving into my yard, and another with it leaving with my trailer and stuff.  Don't think I am jumping to conclusions.
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Walnut Beast

I don't care how many times you have been trespassing. Keep doing it and you will run into somebody a little more serious.   You obviously don't have respect for other people's property whether it's one acre or ten thousand acres it's not your right. You don't pay taxes on it. 

Walnut Beast

I don't care if somebody thinks there going to just walk around on my property without permission it's not going to fly !!!! I've had idiots try and pull crap like that. The same people that pull crap like that if you went to their place and walked around the there own yard they would cry about it and call the cops on yah 

Will.K

Quote from: Walnut Beast on May 20, 2021, 09:36:49 PM
I don't care how many times you have been trespassing. Keep doing it and you will run into somebody a little more serious.   You obviously don't have respect for other people's property whether it's one acre or ten thousand acres it's not your right. You don't pay taxes on it.
I have respect for people. I don't believe in rights, mine or anyone else's. Moreover I don't care who I run into, or how homicidal or hyper protective they are, trusting that math and reasonable behavior will do their work. On the other hand, I've resigned myself to the loss of everything, so if the odds get me I'll accept that too.
I don't mean to be insulting. Respect for property is a big topic that runs from common sense and consideration clear to perversion and absurdity. I'm operating off of principles that I have come to value, as we are all expected to do. I reckon wisdom will be proved righteous by its results, and acknowledge that I may be badly in the wrong.
I have been thinking about this thread all day as I walk in the woods (yes, trespassing often). It's hard to get into words what I want to say about thieves. 

Don P

Our property rights laws are a little different than in other places. In England and Scotland, Finland and a number of places you are free to roam on another's land, in Finland you can't pick their berries  :D. Part of that in the British isles comes from the enclosures and clearances period when the very few wealthy pretty much kicked everyone off of their land and installed sheep on the land instead of small farms. Everyone ended up moving to town to work in weaving and sewing jobs and lost access to the open land. Take a look at what is happening here, how many acres does Ted Turner own now? And a slew of other filthy rich folks. We are not so far from it and will probably need to revisit our notions of trespass one day... but I hope not in my lifetime. I don't care at all for folks showing up uninvited and unannounced.

Southside

Quote from: Will.K on May 20, 2021, 09:52:52 PM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on May 20, 2021, 09:36:49 PM
I don't care how many times you have been trespassing. Keep doing it and you will run into somebody a little more serious.   You obviously don't have respect for other people's property whether it's one acre or ten thousand acres it's not your right. You don't pay taxes on it.
I have respect for people. I don't believe in rights, mine or anyone else's. Moreover I don't care who I run into, or how homicidal or hyper protective they are, trusting that math and reasonable behavior will do their work. On the other hand, I've resigned myself to the loss of everything, so if the odds get me I'll accept that too.
I don't mean to be insulting. Respect for property is a big topic that runs from common sense and consideration clear to perversion and absurdity. I'm operating off of principles that I have come to value, as we are all expected to do. I reckon wisdom will be proved righteous by its results, and acknowledge that I may be badly in the wrong.
I have been thinking about this thread all day as I walk in the woods (yes, trespassing often). It's hard to get into words what I want to say about thieves.
Presuming you are in the US, I find it difficult to believe your claims.  Intentional, repeated, trespassing, and telling the responding law enforcement and or judge what you have said here would surely affirm that your beliefs are in the wrong.  
Then again, Chirs Ledoux did say that after 30 days of thinking about it, next time he would not "drive so slow", so who knows.  
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Will.K

Southside,
     I am in the US, and spend my life in the woods as much as possible, mostly in Appalachia. I have good relationships with law enforcement in many counties in several states, and they have spoken in my behalf to landowners and suspicious neighbors on occasion. They know who I am, why my truck is always along the road somewhere, and the risks I am running. All the while, I expect them to do their job if an irate person cannot be pacified, and accept the legal consequences of my actions. So far there have been no legal consequences, or any serious threat of them.

     Being the most serial trespasser in more than a few places has had interesting consequences. I am respected and assisted by a wide spectrum of people, including wealthy absentee owners, farmers, and the addicted slobs that have starred so frequently in this topic. Many of my relationships with these people started with my getting "caught" by them, or by my approaching a landowner to tell them about something I found on their place. 

     Why has this happened? Well, I try to be honest, calm, kind, interested in people, straightforward, unafraid, and, when appropriate, apologetic. I don't expect anyone to share my values, but after our encounters most people welcome me back. Some of them call me to tell about something they think I'll be interested in seeing. These are the kind of results I'm talking about. If I constantly upset people, and created conflict and drama and unhappiness at every turn, I would be convinced that my behavior was wrong. Instead, my interactions with people tend to leave us mutually enriched. Of course, probably 99 percent of my trespassing results in no contact with the owner. 

     

     
     


Sedgehammer

Quote from: Will.K on May 20, 2021, 11:24:59 PM
 Well, I try to be honest  

   
   
I find it interesting that you use that term and then go on and on about walking on some else's property. I take it then that you don't own anything, nor do you work for a living.
Necessity is the engine of drive

Will.K

Quote from: Sedgehammer on May 21, 2021, 12:05:09 AM
Quote from: Will.K on May 20, 2021, 11:24:59 PM
Well, I try to be honest  

   
   
I find it interesting that you use that term and then go on and on about walking on some else's property. I take it then that you don't own anything, nor do you work for a living.
I'm not sure I recognize any incongruity between honesty and walking on someone's property. I make no effort to hide, make no excuses, have no phony stories to tell if someone sees me. I simply explain why I'm there and see what happens. 
     I'm also not sure what you might be getting at with the phrase, " work for a living."
In monetary terms, I provide for all of my needs by my own work. I have never had any money debts, or accepted monetary benefits from any governmental entity. But I do try to keep secular work to a minimum, because money is not important to me. I'm not sure how impacts your conclusions.
Own anything? This is something I thought a lot about in the woods today. I don't care to take arguments about ownership to their most absurd extremes, so I'll answer that I obviously do own some things. Aside from tools and small domestic items, I currently own four parcels of land in three states, one of which contains a small but more or less traditional house, one of which contains a glorified storage shed that I built and live in part-time, and one of which contains a very crude shack that I camp in. Does this answer your questions? Despite having legal title to these things, I have no expectations of exclusivity, because I am a realist. I cannot expect to leave things for months out of the year and find them untouched when I get back. While cleaning up after some of my uninvited guests has cost me some work, that cost has been calculated and found acceptable. 
---
Theft involves not only gaining some asset without consent or labor, but denying that same asset to them that did labor for it. Thus it involves disrupting the context of another individual's life, throwing askew the calculations and equations by which they see and value themselves and their future, and their past. In this way theft is a vile cousin of sorts to adultery.
     The question of how to catch thieves leads immediately to the next one: What to do with them when you catch them? There has been a lot advice here regarding deterrents, detection, and to some degree vengeance. To weed out bad advice, ask yourself what you want to accomplish. If you want theft to stop, realistically tackle that problem. If you want someone punished, well, that's a much less practical, much more difficult, and largely unproductive goal. To the extent that punishment is a deterrent (it isn't much) the two can work together. 
Violence begets violence, tempers fuel tempers, revenge demands more revenge, mildness will get you stepped on, sometimes. Take your pick. 
It is possible to fight with wit and determination, and empathy and love for your enemy. 
Sometimes law enforcement can help you solve problems. Don't count on it. As an exercise, pretend the cops don't exist. Now how will you tackle your problem without violating your values? 
When I was little our neighbors stole everything they could: tools, toys, dogs, bikes, lumber, nails, loose change out of the car, gasoline, etc. What did dad do? He never called the police that's for sure. He went to the thieves house and took back whatever of our stuff was recoverable. I always wanted him to call the police. I was little. I didn't understand. He was resolving one of the large impacts of the theft in the most efficient, practical, and sober way possible, while teaching his kids about refusing to be victims of fear and helplessness. I don't think any other action would have been as effective.
Sometimes things are lost. Get used to it.
I sold a song to a Kentuckian about things that are lost. I don't know if he ever fixed it or sang it. 
A couple of years ago most of my climbing gear was stolen out of my car when I was hiking. It was stuff I'd accumulated over years and I had it all together in a box because I was going to take some friends who had never climbed out to play on the rocks. When I saw my empty back seat I didn't think of the eight or ten hundred dollars I'd paid for it, I thought about how we couldn't climb now. I had been excited about it. We got together anyway, and ended up climbing some massive and beautiful cedar trees. I have not replaced my gear. 
I wonder about the fables. Remember the Cannery Row Doc? Remember Valjean? And after prison he stole from a priest who forgave him, and gave him a gift. And are these only a sentimental nonsense? There are echos of something else in it... We make excuses. "This doesn't work in real life." Then pretend to take this or that bit seriously. 
Study addiction. What is the moral hierarchy of despairs?
"Last night a burgler broke into my apartment and replaced everything with an exact replica... I said to my roommate "Whaddya think, everything's an exact replica," and he said, "Do I know you?" -SW 
Well, it was a quiet day in the woods, and I could not order thoughts then, much less now.

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Will K

Trespass is stealing plain and simple. If the owner has no "right" to determine who can fish, hunt, camp, collect berries, or otherwise enjoy the benefits of determination then he is foolish for parting with his purchase money and paying taxes to keep up the place for an "entitled class" who demand access as their birthright but yet invest nothing. I am more than happy to share(and do) but assuming you have the right to take without asking will find me prosecuting you to the fullest extent possible. I will spend thousands to make sure you get that $25 fine and court costs solely out of principal. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO THAT WHICH IS NOT YOURS. The penalties should be stiffer because its not about the purpose of the trespass or the "value" of a couple roots or berries; its about the right to undisturbed and quiet enjoyment of ones property. You are correct that the weighing the outcome of actually being caught, prosecuted, convicted, and paying a petty fine is a good deal compared to buying and paying the taxes. Insisting you possess some spiritual pureness and righteous intentions therefore you are above mans law and therefore should have unfettered access doesn't make it so.

Walnut Beast

Will K .    You really have some stuff to think about in the woods today about right and wrong 

HemlockKing

I’m in disagreement with almost off of what will had said. I’m not going to argue, but I will say it doesn’t matter if you mean no harm to the land or not, fact is that land owner constantly has to put up with thieves and other trespassers alike yourself, you’re putting him in a bad position, nobody wants to half to chase down people off their land(stressful). Maybe they mean no harm, landowner doesn’t know that though(and probably doesn’t want anybody there anyway regardless), you’re a stranger, so your putting that unnecessary stress on his/her mind when you could of just not trespassed and disrespected this person, if you want land to moosy and poke around on, buy your own(this is also what national parks are for). It’s because of the entitled mindset of the typical human or someone who hasn’t invest literal blood and sweat into their land that ends up being a burden for the landowners, everyone has that “oh it’s just me I’m not a harm I’ll just go ahead and trespass” and it ends up with the landowners constantly trying to keep people off their land/life/privacy, not to mention how sentimental that land probably is due to being passed down generations.  .2 c
A1

PoginyHill

And the downside to asking permission to walk on someone else's property ahead of time is.....?
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Don P

Bingo, you just nailed the difference in intention. One is a taking the other is not.

Jeff

I do believe I have found the most distasteful topic of the year and a person I hope to never meet on my land, or anywhere else. Usually I can find common ground, but in this case there is none, because that common ground was stolen by a trespasser.
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trimguy

Is trespassing on somebody's property to just "look" any different than trespassing if somebody's personal house to just "look", I think not. It's not yours you have no right to it. You obviously do not have respect for these people, you're just a fast talker to keep your butt out of trouble.

Magicman

One Monday morning when I was building my Cabin Addition I found fresh footprints in the sawdust that had been made that weekend while I was not there.  

Whether anything was misplaced or stolen has no bearing on whether I was violated.  It is my personal property and I have full ownership and the full right, by law, to know and have full control of who enters and enjoys my property:

Definition of Trespass by Merriam-Webster:

Apr 12, 2021 — 1a : an unlawful act committed on the person, property, or rights of another especially : a wrongful entry on real property.

Several years ago I successfully prosecuted a trespasser and I will readily do so again if I found anyone on my property without my permission.
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DonW

In a return to the ambiguity mentioned earlier, I wonder if the principled defenders of ownership would call my actions planned for today of inspecting the irrigation ditch passing through multiple parcels a trespass? There is no expectation here that I seek permission to cross every boundary and if I did this I expect it would be met with skepticism. Gee, I hope I don't get no buckshot up my ars by the end of the day :laugh:
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