Outboard oil in a chainsaw?

[retiredmechanic]

Can it be done? should it be done? has it been done?
I need to cut a few trees for a sudden cold snap so I go to my shop and find I have used all my 2 cycle oil up but I find I have a jug of outboard oil and a half quart of 5w20 motor oil I live way out of town and can't get to town for a week   would anyone think of using either of these oils for pre mix fuel for an older MaCollugh PM610 chainsaw which I normally run 20 : 1 ratio ? the saw is in great shape 90 psi comp starts first pull every time after warmed up 

[lxskllr]

Weren't they run on SAE30 back in the day? If you *really* need to get stuff done, and *really* can't go to town/borrow from a neighbor, I'd run 4stroke oil in the saw, but I'd prefer not to.

From wikipedia...

Comparing regular lubricating oil with two-stroke oil, the relevant difference is that two-stroke oil must have a much lower ash content. This is required to minimize deposits that tend to form if ash is present in the oil which is burned in the engine's combustion chamber. Additionally a non-2T-specific oil can turn to gum in a matter of days if mixed with gasoline and not immediately consumed. Another important factor is that 4-stroke engines have a different requirement for 'stickiness' than 2-strokes do. Since the 1980s different types of two-stroke oil have been developed for specialized uses such as outboard motor two-strokes, premix two-stroke oil, as well as the more standard auto lube (motorcycle) two-stroke oil. As a rule of thumb, most containers of oil commercially offered will have somewhere on the label printed that it is compatible with 'Autolube' or injector pumps. Those bottles tend to have the consistency of liquid dish soap if shaken. A more viscous oil cannot reliably be passed through an injection system, although a premix machine can be run on either type.

Two-stroke oil - Wikipedia

[sawguy21]

Do what you have to do but I suspect you will get carbon fouling. A friend did that in an old outboard, he got what looked like Lubriplate grease out of the exhaust. It was unburned oil mixed witth water and the motor would not idle or reach full rpm.

[retiredmechanic]

Thanks I forgot to mention the outboard oil is 2 stroke mix but of course the 5 w 20 is not and as for neighbors there are none within ten miles to ask but I think i will wait till I get a chance to pick up in town I do have twigs and limbs that my sawzall will chop up just until I get to town twigs being 2 inch branches The price jumped to $75. a rick this year for red oak and or other not so good firewood and I am being stubborn not wanting to pay for it. especially when I have plenty on my 5 acres to cut myself just have to fight the briars  

[lxskllr]

I found this video on youtube. Kinda interesting...

Will 4-stroke oil damage a 2-stroke engine? Let's find out! - YouTube

[brianJ]

Thanks I forgot to mention the outboard oil is 2 stroke mix but of course the 5 w 20 is not and as for neighbors there are none within ten miles to ask but I think i will wait till I get a chance to pick up in town I do have twigs and limbs that my sawzall will chop up just until I get to town twigs being 2 inch branches The price jumped to $75. a rick this year for red oak and or other not so good firewood and I am being stubborn not wanting to pay for it. especially when I have plenty on my 5 acres to cut myself just have to fight the briars

Red oak a not so good good fire wood?     That is a new one to me

[donbj]

I wouldn't run it in my saws. It is formulated for cooler running engines with different additives. Chainsaws run much hotter.

[Canuck123]

The 4 cycle oil will not hurt short term , actually most marine grade  2 cycle oils are ashless vs low ash . I would go with the marine oil and just add a little more oil ratio to compensate for no ash content !

[Bandmill Bandit]

You can run almost any oil in a pinch in those engines. I have one mix that I use for two stroke mower, trimmer, chainsaw hedge clipper etc and have never had an issue. Not that long ago regular 30w was mixed with the gas for almost all two strokes.

[donbj]

This is out of my Husky 262 XP manual:

"• Never use two-stroke oil intended for water cooled outboard motors, so-called, outboard oil. • Never use oil intended for four-stroke engines."

Yes, 4-stroke, or outboard oil may work in a pinch but I'll stick with what the manufacturer recommends.

[armechanic]

In the mid "60"s I used non-detergent 30W 1 pint to 2 gal regular gas  (no unleaded then) in Mac 151 & 171 chainsaw cutting firewood full time at $3.50 per face cord (rick) delivered.  The same oil was used for the chain also Phillips 66 unique 30W non detergent.

[Bandmill Bandit]

I don't recall for sure but my first exposure to a "dedicated" 2 cycle oil would have been in the midd 60s for our old 66 Panther. Think it was called Power Purple from Arctic Cat and was 20/1 mix. To me it kinda smelled a bit like #20 hydraulic oil from TRC. If we were out that stuff we just used the #30 out of the drum for the tractors. It didn't really smell all that much different back then.
   

[caveman]

Before joining the Forestry Forum I ran TCW3 in my Poulan and Echo saws in the Florida heat, often with dull chains.   I still have the Echo and it starts and runs well.  The Poulan was running when I loaned it out - I have not seen it since.  Back then I had time to fish quite a bit and there was always mixed gas in one of the boats.  Now I generally run synthetic chainsaw oil from a former sponsor mixed at 40:1.  

[sawguy21]

In the mid "60"s I used non-detergent 30W 1 pint to 2 gal regular gas  (no unleaded then) in Mac 151 & 171 chainsaw cutting firewood full time at $3.50 per face cord (rick) delivered.  The same oil was used for the chain also Phillips 66 unique 30W non detergent.

That is all we had at the time. Saws were crude compared to today's offerings and ran much slower.

[Southside]

Yea - the oil wars!!  So FWIW I buy the Wally World outboard 2 cycle oil which is rated TC-W3 and run it in my Husky 372 xp saws at 32:1, have done so for years and never had an issue.   

[YellowHammer]

From the many oils we tested in the lab, the petrochemical based oils run nearly as well as synthetics until they get run hot.  Then they start to break down, and since they are composed of many long chain molecules, they fractionate, or break down more as the operating temps increase. They can't keep a shear layer and metal touches metal.

Synthetic oils will maintain their adhesion and lubricity properties at much higher temperatures, but when critical cylinder head temperatures are reached, they break down suddenly and fail.

That's why many oils are blends, to cover all the bases.

Outboard oils have water absorbion and corrosion inhibitors that break down at higher temperatures, so work great in water cooled outboards but can cause fouling in higher temperature engines.  Water cooled engine oils are designed to be run at lower temperatures, whether 4 stroke or 2 stroke.  However, they can be run at higher air cooled engine temps, but they are not optimized for it. As long as the cylinder head temperatures stay moderate, they work fine.  

Air cooled engine oils are designed to not breakdown at higher cylinder temps, and to leave very little residues in the cyclnder of a hot engine, which acts like a glow plug and cause preignition.

There is a difference in oils, that's why Stihl doubles the warranty of a new chainsaw when run with their gray bottle oil vs their old orange bottle oil.  Let me tell you, that Stihl silver oil is probably some of the best 2 stroke oil we tested.  

However, basically, as long as the oil and engine isn't run to the extremes of their design point, pretty much any oil will work for a reasonable time. It's doing it's job when it can adhere to the metal and won't let them touch. Just don't keep the throttle pegged, keep the cylcinder head temperature down.  

On the other hand, we had some fun times with our dynamometers putting any and all oils we could buy in piston and rotary engines for about two years.  We had more than one "super" oil designed for one application fail in a matter of hours when used in another application.  However, we were running the oils and engines to the extreme.  

I've used weed eater oil in my onboard, and outboard oil in my chainsaw, but I don't do it as a habit.  Just be aware of the limitations. Odds are you'll never notice the difference, until you do.  

[ButchC]

Back before the internet and having the knowledge that my two saws were about to explode into bits of red hot steel and melted aluminum I ran Pennzoil outboard oil for 20 years at 40-1 in both of my 610 Macs and my brand new 036 Stihl for at least 10 years. So did everyone else in the neighborhood becausw that's what the fuel guy carried in his truck and said it was the best. Once I found out the danger I was in I switched over to Stihl dino oil and continued to run all of them. Then I bought a 4mix trimmer that requires synthetic and found out that unless I used synthetic that my saws were doomed to being gummed  up with soot so I switched everything to Stihl ultra, no smoke and smells better so I have stuck with it. All true and all still searving back up duty.

 But seriously to compare the lubrication needs of a modern EPA approved saw to a 610 Mac is no different than saying a race engine needs X oil thus so does a model T. If it was all I had handy I would  run the outboard oil in the old Mac without any reservation but I would NOT use same in any post EPA saws. When buying mix oil I have always bought the best available to my knowledge, makes no sense to do different in my opinion. 

[gspren]

In the 70s I bought Wolfs Head outboard oil by the case from my dad who was an auto parts salesman and the bottles said for all 2 stroke engines so I used it in my outboards, Homelite chainsaw, and a Clinton powered lawnmower with no problems. My dad said Wolfs Head made the best oils, probably because that's what their distributor said :D.

[YellowHammer]

Interestingly enough, there are additives that are very important to limiting engine wear that aren't allowed in oils anymore do to EPA regulations.  So the 1970's oils are not the 2020 oil.  Some of the aftermarket additives available these days are only available as additives because the EPA restricts their use in oils from the big companies, but they can be added later. Back in the day, they were allowed and simply included in the oil.  

Phosphorus is a really good anti wear additive for Diesel engines, but limited by the EPA.  Adding a little aftermarket phosphorus goes a long way. So old diesel oils had a high percentage of phosphorus, new oils, not nearly as much.  

Most base oils are manufactured by the same companies, and to the same specs.  It's what the manufacturers add to them afterward that makes a difference.  

I run Kubota oil in my Kubota, New Holland oil in my New Holland and Stihl Silver oil in my chainsaws.  I'll run anything in my weed eater because I'd just a soon have it die anyway.

[ButchC]

 
  I'll run anything in my weed eater because I'd just a soon have it die anyway.

Been there,, done that,,😇😇😇

[Al_Smith]

Well alrighty then .The good old great debate about oil is still alive and well .Plus I didn't have to fan the flames .I'm so elated .
Now if somebody would just point out that using oil heavy mix ratio  can cause a lean burn condition it would be perfect .Don't be bashful now . :D

[Southside]

Took ya long enough to join in Al.   :D  What about mixing in some #6?  ;D

[Nebraska]

It'll do in a pinch,just fine  I've poured it out of my little fishing boats tank at the end of the year, filled the 1 gallon  saw fuel jug up and the rest goes into the truck. Using it here and there won't hurt til you can go buy some stihl mix or opti,  or husky whatever floats  your boat. No way I'd stop my project and run to town though if I had it.

[YellowHammer]

Oil is oil and it's all going to work to some degree, but manufactures spend many millions of dollars optimizing their oils for their applications.  It's not that oils won't work, it's just that some are optimized for their special condition.

From my experience, the last 90% of engine life is consumed in the last 10% of maximum cylinder head temperature, and that's where the difference in oils really come out. 

[BradMarks]

Like others, I have ran tanks of "outboard" mix thru my older saw. Never noticed a difference. Note, I said older saw.  Not sure what a new saw would do.

[Al_Smith]

FWIW a long time ago we used the same gas in the old saws as we did in the Evinrudes .Must not have hurt them because those still around still run .You have to work real hard to kill an Evinrude or a McCulloch .Geeze  that stuff was mixed 16 to 1 with outboard oil. How it didn't lock them up must just be  miracle . --No before anybody asks I don't do that any more ,that was over 50 years ago .Back when I wore a leather MC jacket,wore a duck tailed hair cut and my teeth didn't reside  in a cup over night .

[retiredmechanic]

/quote] didnt mean red oak was not good I meant other wood wasn't good but we burn anyway sorry for the misunderstanding 

[WV Sawmiller]

   I am sure no expert but I run the same exact mix, like @Southside using WalMart's 2 cycle oil in everything requiring mixed gas. Since I use a 50:1 mix in my 25 hp Johnson outboard, Sthil FS85 weedeater, wife's Sthil MS180, my Sthil MS441 & MS440 chainsaws, and even my Craftsman flea market special leaf blower. I use the mix interchangeably and this time of year I am dumping my outboard tanks in my small cans and using it in my chainsaws so I don't start my spring fishing with old gas.