End Trimming

[Horselog]

I'm curious what folks do for end trimming.  A search on here yielded nothing, I'm curious that it's never come up.  Maybe I didn't use the right keywords.

I am looking into different (low-cost) alternatives to a large trimming rig.  Logosol makes a (sort of) low cost trimmer, and there's another portable one that's just a big chainsaw bar on wheels by Holtec.  I've also thought about just getting a 50" bar for my 660 and making some kind of jig/frame to set a stack in that would make it easy to just cut with the chain saw.  Seems like I could spend quite a while making it for $10,000.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Jeff]

Do you have a market requiring end trimming?

We had one for a few years. It was a landscape timber contract, sawing aspen. 4x4 3x5 4x6 6x6 and 6x8  8', 10' and 12'.

We end trimmed the bundles with a 50 inch bar with a handle on the tail end, on a big old McCullough chainsaw. We chalked out our lines and then two guys would cut them off.  Lots of work, but we cut hundreds of thousands of feet that way. The guys running the saw needed to be on thier game and the saw chain and bar needed to be in tip-top shape. The handle had a greasable roller bearing.

[hacknchop]

 End trimming for length is easy enough but it gets alittle tricky when you start trimming for grade. I have worked on diferernt types  of trim saws homemade and manufactured trim tables, only time we ever trim full bundles was when we needed 4"X4"X4' we used long bar on a big saw. Personally I would end trim one board at a time ahead of trying to keep my saw from running one way or the other cutting through 32 or so courses of lumber and I've been known to do just about everything with a chainsaw.

[Mooseherder]

I have one that runs with a 120 volt motor.  It used to be part of a Cedar fence operation.


 

[Ohio_Bill]

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,87885.msg1347326.html#msg1347326

Not sure if this will help but here is a post where I ask a similar question.

[YellowHammer]

I trim my lumber packs, if needed, with a 660 chainsaw and a long bar.  I put pallet banding at the ends of the bundles and use that as a guide, or I just do it freehand.  I just did some walnut last night but don't have a picture.  Here is some cedar we did using the same technique, you can see the chainsaw marks on the end of the packs.  It goes relatively fast.

[Ron Wenrich]

We used the long bar on a chain saw when necessary.  We didn't have any markets that really required double end trimmed lumber.  It was used for squaring up bundles.  End trimming in the mill was done with an electric chainsaw.  That's where we cut off rot and wane and upgraded boards.

[Horselog]

To clarify, I am talking about double end trimming bundles for grade lumber.  Not sure if that changes things.  I know at least some of you were talking about single log or small lumber stack trimming.

[beenthere]

Still not exactly sure.  Are these hardwood bundles of grade lumber? And if so, wondering why they are being trimmed double end. Just curious, as hardwood grade lumber is sold random length.

If softwood, wondering what the process is and what the grades are..  ??

[Mooseherder]

Someone sent me a private message asking for more detailed pictures of the trim saw for a build idea.  I can get you some in a few months.  The saw is under snow right now.

[Ron Wenrich]

I never liked to double end trim grade hardwood lumber.  The reason is that there are often good cuttings in those ends that can help the grade of a board.  Sometimes you cut the end off the board to upgrade, sometimes it works against you. 

Are you putting all the same length lumber in the bundle?  What do you do with the odd length pieces, like 7' or 9'?  What are your specs?

[Horselog]

I'm just learning about all this.  I didn't know that grade lumber is usually sold random length.  What I do know is that a place that I'm planning on selling to buys lumber by grade and wants the stacks end trimmed.  I guess that's means just generally cleaned up? As opposed to a specific length?  I didn't ask hime what lengths they buy.

Another place I'm looking at selling to, a flooring plant, buys lumber "log run", he calls it.  I would think it should be called lumber run.  They want all the lumber coming off the log, from FAS down to #3C, with the lumber from the heart not included, in my case I'm cutting ties.  They want lumber sorted by length and end trimmed to a specific length, 2"-4" over the length being sold. They buy 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16' lengths. 

There was a market I was looking into for poplar that required double end trimming.  It was a large sawmill that had kilns and was looking to fill out their orders, I guess.

I just started getting HMR and I see now where they specify that green grade lumber is sold by random width (which I knew) and length ( which I didn't until now).

So as far as trimming for grade, ya'll are referring to trimming each individual board to the length that would maximize the percentage of high grade cuts?  If that's what it is, I see of course that you're better off cutting each board individually. 

[drobertson]

It's hard to believe they require green bundles end trimmed.  Having relatively clean ends on the logs and having them of the same length is all that's required around here.  But if that's the only place for you to go with green lumber, it looks like you are in the market for a long bar. 

[Ron Wenrich]

Sometimes they need a square end for their operations.  They use a lot of automation, especially for unloading and stickering.  You need a square end on the board.  You should have that already if you are going have a well sawn board.  Another operation would be if they have a rollcase with an end stop.  The board could come off crooked.  Also, most operations can't use a board over a certain length, as they won't fit in the kiln.  We used a chainsaw to cut our bundles to length.

What we did with our ends is to leave them hang out of the end of the stack.  Then, we would cut the ends off after the bundle was up, or while we had time in the stacking process.  If you have a bunk you are putting them in, you could have an end stop where all the ends are pushed to.  Think of a wall, often a sheet of metal.  I've seen them on some lumber carts.  When you stack the lumber, you push the board against it, and you have a square end on the bundle.  The only problem is that some of the boards have to be pushed further away instead of having your lumber ends closest to where you are stacking.  It gets a little cumbersome. 

I don't know what your markets are like or what your specs are.  We would separate our bundles in 8' and shorter, 9/10', 11/12', 13-16'.  We wouldn't separate by the odd length.  This worked well for all the kilns we sent to.  Also, easier to load a truck.  If you need the extra sorts, there should be a premium. 

Log run means you send them all the lumber.  I never sold too much lumber like that.  We always pulled the pallet lumber out.  I also never cut too heavy into the lower grades.  Generally speaking, you'll make more money by leaving low grade in blocking.  We usually had markets for different grades of lumber.  That brought premiums.  We also sent lumber for casket in certain species, and we could upgrade a 2 Com into a casket board (think sound back select for grade).  We also put our better grade lumber in thicker cuts where we could.  I would rather cut 8/4 poplar than 4/4, simply because of better yield, but also a better price.  But, I could only put the upper grades into the 8/4.  That bleeds the upper quality out of the 4/4, and if you're selling log run, they want those uppers. 

What we did is what your broker is going to do.  He's going to grade it, then put it in separate bundles, kiln dry, and sell at a premium.  If you don't understand lumber grades, go find a short course so you understand the grade.  If you don't upgrade your boards before they go to market, they will do that on the other end.  I call that an ignorance tax.  You paid because you didn't know, the other end of the market collected it because they did.  You can also get a copy of the NHLA rules.  http://www.nhla.com/rulesbook