There's an "orchard" of sorts up the road from me that changed owners a few years ago. The orchard consists of about five acres of highbush blueberries and three acres of poorly maintained apple trees. It was done as a business venture and not for a hobby, and now the current owners want to get rid of all of the blueberry bushes.
Rather than mow them down, due to considerable investment potential, they placed a newspaper ad offering 2500 highbush blueberries, balled, bagged and tagged for variety. Since most local nurseries and big-name national nurseries offer blueberries for between $4 and $8 each, and these are 5- to 7-foot tall mature heavy producers, I figured they'd be asking five or ten bucks each.
So, would YOU buy a mature blueberry bush, that is already 20 years old, for FIFTY DOLLARS?
Not me. If they pulled them out of the ground, bare root, I might take them off of their hands to keep them from going to the trouble of burning them. I'd take them home, prune them way back and stick them in the ground in a well watered spot. Chances are some will grow.
Talk about wishful thinking !!! I wouldn't give 50 bucks for the whole lot. I grow blueberries, and my survival rate for transplants is poor. Besides, a 20 year old bush is way past it's prime production years.
Hopefully they didn't invest their time, labor, and money into balling them BEFORE they had them sold.
I think they are barking up the wrong tree....but then they may get some suckers to bite ( I hear they are good smoked :) )
Engineer
How much would you pay for them? :) :)
Quote from: beenthere on April 11, 2008, 10:54:21 AM
Engineer
How much would you pay for them? :) :)
Well, I was a teenager when they planted them. I live about four miles away and drive by there about once or twice a month. They are very good producing bushes, you can see the huge berries from the road. It's been both a pick-your-own as well as a truck farm operation, where the owners picked for local markets. In light of all that, and they are "organic" berries, they only fertilize with local horse poo, I'd be happy to fork out ten bucks per bush. Immediate gratification, and I know I can get a gallon of berries per season on some of the larger healthier bushes. Blueberries in the store are four bucks a pound, so that's gotta be twenty-five or thirty bucks a gallon for good berries. But I just can't see fifty bucks a shrub. They said they're only gonna sell them until the 20th, and I'll probably drop by then and see if I can get some leftovers for the ten bucks. I was planning on dropping some coin at Miller Nurseries for a bunch of highbush plants anyway, so this might be easier. And I won't have to wait three to five years for good yields.
I love blueberrys. I can taste the pancakes now. I may try a couple of bushes but I would also go ahead and get a couple new bushes also.
We are redoing are strawberry patch and my wife is not doing well w/ not having any strawberrys this year.
Back to the bushes i would think that transplanting a bush that size is not going to be an easy task. I think that there survial rate is not going to be good. And I don't think that you will get many berrys this year. It will take a whole year for the bush to recover from the shock.
I transplanted a few blueberry bushes (got them for free) they produced a few more berries then the new plants I bought but not much more. A good portion of the old wood died so the bushes got a lot smaller.
Ya gotta get the PH way down before you plant the bushes.
I am too lazy to dig a bigger hole that they would take.That does sound like alot of money.I've seen other things that were priced high,but that seems alot high.
Soil around here isn't sour enough. They never take, and die within a couple years. Where they grow in the wild here is on sandy soil that was host to spruce and jack pine. $50 is too much for a bush.
I'm lucky here.I have at least a foot of good top soil in one field.Cross the dirt road and it's prime for blueberries.Only have about 2 inches of so called top soil.Soil gets real dry on this side of the road.We have mostly low bush blueberries,about an acre of them.The last 2 years have not been too good.We're due for a real good year.I have a few high bush ones.
I grow 4.5 acres of blueberries. That price IS too high. I have accidentally yanked some out with my weed badger while cultivating (a tractor mounted vertically rotating cultivator, that can from the tractor seat be moved in and out between the bushes controlled by a joystick, while driving down beside a row of bushes). If they are replanted real soon and pruned big time and watered 2 or 3x a day you might save about half. The PH needs to be between 4.2 and max 5.2 either naturally or by adding sulfur. This must be done a year before planting or the sulfer will kill them. If PH is close you can fertilize them with ammonium sulfate starting after they have had a real soaking rain after planting. If trying that use 8 oz/bush/yr. The first year I might try half that. My bushes are 26 yrs old and they are still real productive. According to experts in the field bushes should last about 60-70 yrs. They must be pruned annually and properly or they will not produce well after the first 15-20 yrs. I suggest anyone wanting to grow blueberries buy the young bushes from a nursery. I have tried with some success deviding a bush by just cutting it in half with a sharp spade, prune heavily and water, water, water the half you are moving.
My soil is at 5.8 to 6.5 I have been trying to bring it down with Amonium sulfate now for about 5 years . I got soil sulfur from Jungs seeds this year . Could I put it in the row middles an not kill my plants? I also have a bunch of Miracid I was going to use. I think that the row middles tend to sweeten the row keeping my ph up. I put in peatmoss at the time I planted ,was told that would make the soil acid enough for the berries. I also mulch them with corncobsjust in the row and have a grass/weed mix in the middles. anything else that I can do ?
OK, now that it's been mentioned twice, I have to ask. Why are people pruning newly transplanted bushes? Are blueberries different from other plants? When you move a plant, you have usually removed a large portion of the root system, this is where the plant has stored nutrients. The plant now has to rely on what little it has stored in the roots, and what it can make through photosynthesis, which requires leaves, right? If you chop the plant up, you are taking away valuable leaves, which the plant needs to survive, and to help reestablish the root system. Am I way off base here? Because pruning a trasnplant goes against everything I was taught in my career as a tree mover.
Dave
IF I WAS SPENDING MY MONEY I WOULD GO WITH MILLERS I HAVE HAD VERY GOOD LUCK THERE
Wait, then make an offer.
Last price I saw in Georgia for picked BBs was at Sam's Club.
$6.88 :o for a little package !
There's gold in them berries.
They're green house berries that's why. They even do the same with raspberries here. I wouldn't buy them but I suppose some do.
Well, to follow up, I am downright amazed, astonished, dumbfounded etc. They sold all 2500 bushes at $50 each and are planning on selling another 500 in the fall with preorders and prepayment.
I cannot imagine spending that kind of ca$h on a blueberry bush unless they produced blueberries that were already chocolate-covered or had a high alcohol content or something.
Some people have more money than sense. ::)
Mark
Either that or someone else's. :D
I am finally getting around to answering Dave Shepards question about why prune the bushes. When you dig the bushes you damage or lose some of the root. The energy left is not enough to support the leaves in place or that will try to open, until the roots re-establish themselves. The leaves or leaf buds as they tried to open would take too much energy and weaken the bush further. In pruning you let the roots establish in the new environment and the new growth will occure as the bush is ready. New sprouts will emerge from the roots or the root crown. If you did not prune you would lose many more of the bushes because the roots would not have enough energy to support the leaves. Most or all of the leaves would drop because the bush would try to protect it self by using it's energy to build a good root mass first.
With wild blueberries we prune every other year and harvest every other, there is a growth year and a bearing year/harvest. I'm not digging them up and relocating. A couple of pruning methods are fire and the new and widely practiced method is flail mowing. The visible part of the the plant is taken right to the ground, the rhizome is left intact. There is a lot of leveling of the fields going on, they use excavators to reposition the underlaying gravel with minimal damage to the root stock, it takes a few years to fully recover. The land is now more even, allowing the use of harvesters, flail mowing and other treatments. We see more migrant workers than in the past. The locals were the harvesters, it's now gone to machinery and migrants. I have gone in the opposite direction, raked by hand, fresh packed and frozen. About 10 acres, 5 each year, we are a small operation. The big boys are estimating a crop of 86 million + pounds this year. Tim
Quote from: maple flats on August 03, 2008, 09:08:09 PM
I am finally getting around to answering Dave Shepards question about why prune the bushes. When you dig the bushes you damage or lose some of the root. The energy left is not enough to support the leaves in place or that will try to open, until the roots re-establish themselves. The leaves or leaf buds as they tried to open would take too much energy and weaken the bush further. In pruning you let the roots establish in the new environment and the new growth will occure as the bush is ready. New sprouts will emerge from the roots or the root crown. If you did not prune you would lose many more of the bushes because the roots would not have enough energy to support the leaves. Most or all of the leaves would drop because the bush would try to protect it self by using it's energy to build a good root mass first.
And where is it going to get this energy without leaves?
Dave
I think what he means is the newly transplanted bushes with all their lush growth would further stress the roots as they seek available water. Not enough water intake, because a lot of the feeder roots are lost, and the plants burn up from excessive evaporation through the leaves.
Balsam fir with shade needles being released in winter harvest will burn up that spring as the snow cover melts, ground is still frozen and the hot spring sun causes excessive moisture loss. Can get winter killed too if the snow is shallow. All I know is a fir thicket thinned out in summer heat is doubly hot with radiant heat of the bows.
Transplant in the fall. In the Spring there will be enough energy in the root ball to sprout stems and leaves, than generate energy for the plant. Will that work? Tim
I have never tried fall planting but in other things it works good, I would give it a try. As far as where it will get it's energy from, the energy is stored in the roots. First the roots will re-establish themselves and then, if in the growing season it will put out new leaves. When I prune for transplanting I do not remove all of the leaves, but leave a few on each of maybe 3-4 good straight healthy looking stems and remove the rest of the stems. I do not pick leaves off, but rather prune the cane to about 6-10" tall, and remove any over the 3 or 4 total. Those that are removed are cut close to the crown. Swamp Donkey is correct, he just states it more clearly. As far as what moonhill says, those are low bush blueberries and I do not have any experience with them. I refer only to highbush blueberries. I am going to try propigating my bushes either in the spring 2009 or the following by removing the canes down to about 2-5" tall and physically devide the root crown and re plant both halves. With proper watering I think it will work but I have never seen any info on it. I will experiment with several and if a high % survive I will do enough to fill any and all voids in my current rows. This will need to happen after I install drainage tile because many of mine died from being drowned either in a wet spring or in a very wet summer. Blueberries like lots of water but do not do well if there is standing water around them for more than a few hours. I have some areas that have standing water for days when we get a real wet spell.
OK. there have been bits and pieces about growing blueberries.
Would someone familiar with at least south central NY care to tell us how to buy at a reasonable price and cultivate blueberries. High or low bush? Are they planted in the woods? How much shade? Indicator plants? Does elevation play a role here?
Jim , I have some blueberry bushes here , I am further north then you , They are planted in full sun and do well . I dont have the names of the plants I have but not here with me but will make a point of going to see the tags on the bushes , as I know they are still there . I have three different varieties and some do better in production then others , I was told then that I needed atleast two different types for pollination weather this is true or not ... :P Dont know .. we got three only to see if their was better or not .
Blueberries will grow any place in NY or even colder climates where the PH can be gotten to 4.2-5.2. Blueberries should not be grown in the woods nor in the shade, but only in full sun. If your natural PH is over about 6.2 you will have a hard time getting low enough and should consider container planting because you have free lime in the soil meaning there is lime that will raise the PH shortly after you acidify the soil. PH is so critical because blueberries can only take up nitrogen in the ammonium state and they are very heavy nitrogen feeders. In NY I would only suggest highbush blueberries except some of the highest elevations where the soil is very sandy such as on some of the upper elevations on peaks in the adirondaks. I bought mine in 1982 from a company in NJ called A G Ammon Nursery Inc , 1610 Route 532, Chatsworth, NJ 08019, United States, (609) 726-1370. They at the time were the largest propigador of blueberries in the world. I bought 1 yr rooted cuttings because I was young and poorer than I am now. I planted them into a concentrated bed for 2 yrs and then set them out into the field 4' on center and in rows 10 ft apart. I wish now I had gone 11 or even 12' aisles because I must use small tractors to tend them. to grow blueberries you should prep the soil 1 yr ahead, till it , get a soil test and add sulfur as needed. Once you plant you should use little or no sulfur because it is toxic to blueberries. The year of planting you should water them often enough that they do not dry out, about every 2-3 days in hot dry weather. The following yr you would either get a soil test and sent it to co operative ext. and follow their recommendations or lacking that fert. with ammonium sulfate at the rate of 1 oz/bush/yrs of age up to 8 oz/yr. Only fert. in the early spring before growth starts or when the bushes get bigger you can split the fert. 1/2 early and the second half up til about june 1. Fertilizing later gives us northerners too much late growth which results in winter injury. Farther south they fert up to about july 10. As the bushes mature you should prune them allowing 2 new canes to develope each year until you have 14-16 canes. After that you would let 2 new grow and remove the oldest 2 each season keeping about 14-16 canes. To be practical you leave more than 2 grow in any year but reduce them to the 2 strongest and most up right 2 when you prune next. Pruning is best done in Jan-March. This being said, I am far too busy then doing my maple syrup and I do all pruning from May-Aug. Those prunned in mid to late summer do not respond well until the following year, but I have found that pruning at this time is better than not pruning at all. I might also mention that you should be sure to keep all other trees that try to grow in the rows removed and not get behind like I did for years when I was working 80-90 hrs a week before i sold my business and theoretically retired. Now I am playing catch up, removing the trees that grew very fast with the heavy fertilizing. Especially when I cut a young tree but did not kill the stump and it regrows, often multi stems and on a good root system. However, i have finally gotten 42 of my 52 rows done. Just 10 more 300' rows to go, but that comes next year.
Good information mapleflats. I'm going to pick from the thread and print off a blueberry info sheet for dad. Don't worry, it couldn't be any more disasterous than what he has dealt with. His seem to winter kill a lot and they don't grow much foliage. I think it's PH because the ground around this area has natural lime in the rock and water, but the water in his area has natural sulfur in it to. It's in the tap water. :)
Swamp Donkey,
Generally if you have natural lime in the soil you must get some big containers, which could even be set in the ground, then put a mix of good soil, peat moss and sand, about one part each and grow the bushes in this. You could remove the bottoms but do not compromise the sides. The sides will allow a proper PH to be maintained within. Up your way you should only apply the fertilizer very early in the spring, as soon as the frost is gone so it will be used up long before the ground freezes again to give the bushes new growth time to harden off. Your dad should be able to grow good blueberries. Each plant will yield about 8 full quarts each year after they are 8 yrs old. You should check on varieties for your area, i am only familiar with what does well in my area. There are a few varieties that were developed in Nova Scocia.
What about growing blues on the west coast? Any info about them? Are they the same bushes you are discussing? Joe
Same genus, but when I was on the BC west coast it was Alaskan blues they harvested mostly. An Alaskan blue tastes like a bog cranberry, they even can them out there. I think they called them black huckleberries in BC. They do have a couple species of blueberries in BC, oval-leaved and velvet leaved. But they seem to prefer the black huckleberry V. membranaceum for taste. In BC, if the berries of the Vaccinium genus are not blue, it's a huckleberry. They have a red huckleberry as well which grows on high bushes with green branches, versus the bog cranberry that is also red. ;D
I like our wild ones here in the east the best. I couldn't get used to huckleberries, since the taste said cranberry to my brain. They are alright with the Christmas stuffing and dried like raisins (Cranaisins) though. :D :D
Then there is the creeping snowberry, which grows like a bog cranberry, but is white. I am wondering if it is some cultivar of this that Ocean Spray is calling white cranberry. Same genus. ;D
The west coast does grow blueberries but you would do best getting them from a grower in your area. After that my suggestions will work because they would still be highbush, I just am not sure on specific varieties.
I've got 19 highbush blueberry bushes in the garden, here in NW Washington. I think there are about 5 different varieties, (I bought them very small for $1.00 each and lost the tags over the years.*) We've got heavy clay soil so I worked in lots of fresh sawdust before I planted and mulch them with about 4 inches of sawdust every Spring. I put 18-18-18 on once or twice each Spring. We have just started harvesting the last week or so and with the different varieties are able to get berries over nearly a two month period. The only problems we've had is that I have them planted a little too close together, I'm not real good a pruning them and we have a bear that just won't stay out of them.
We have a number of commercial growers in the area but hard to beat going through the garden morning and evening eating a handful of fresh blueberries.
* A number of commercial outlets for starter plants up in the Bellingham/Lynden area.
I went out this morning expecting to pick and every last ripe berry was gone. Must have been the birds. Very disappointing. >:( >:(
I planted my bushes in rows with 4' in row spacing and 10 between rows. Where I have gotten them properly pruned and kept them good that is enough spacing. I also have 10 rows left (300' rows) out of my 52 total rows where I have not caught up yet. On those rows the bushes touch each other across the aisle and it is hard to navigate to pick. When I started this year I had 24 rows to go. On the 14 I did this season I had to prune extremely heavy and cut and remove trees as well. Some of the biggest trees were over 6" diameter but most were 5" and under. The trees got a foothold before I retired when I was working 70-90 hrs/week and cuold not keep up with them. The 28 rows not mentioned above were cleared uot last year and the year before. On the cleared rows I run my Weed Badger every 2 weeks to maintain them in good condition.
Just bringing up this thread to thank those growers who contributed to successfully growing blueberries. Dad has had good luck following some of the information I pulled from this thread and the bushes have really taken off. Some growth on the plants from the rootstock area are 3 feet this year alone. And he has been picking berries for a couple years. When he first started out in the blueberry growing they looked very sick and had a lot of die back.
Thanks all. :)
The Wild blueberry patches have really spread since the last time I bush hogged a few years ago.
They are loaded this year. I'm hoping there are some left when we go back next week. :)
I was careful mowing around 3 large areas. I also set up a game cam not to far away to see if the wildlife is eating them. I had set it up when we arrived with new video card. Replaced the card before we left and brought the first one back with us because it had 38 pictures on it. I couldn't wait to see what was on it. Well, the danG thing won't unlock for whatever reason. The side do-hickey ain't working. >:(
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13635/Wild_Blueberries.JPG)
Forgot to mention we are eating Blueberry Pancakes right now. :)
They're the store bought variety but are the best so far this year.
We received a call from a distant cousin a couple years back. Her husband was a Town Manager for a neighboring town. He asked me if they could pick up the Pine Needles of our Red Pine stand we have along the road. They were preparing their land for a commercial Blueberry operation and the Pine needles were supposed to be a good way to get proper PH levels. I said knock yourself out but that I would be asking for guidance whenever I tried growing Blueberries. I heard this summer that the plants didn't do so well from my BIL. Maybe it is too soon to tell though. I hope they are successful.
Mine were all gone by the time we got home from the pig roast. The neighbors finished them off while we were gone. Got a bunch in the freezer, enough to last till next year. Plan on doing a little pruning this winter. Some of the bushes are 10 feet tall. When they get that big, seems like they don't bear as well.
I also found a few wild ones this week on a thinning block, they were just hanging with berries and good sized ones to. mmmmm I never picked any, as I was working. But they sure looked nice. ;)
The birds eat a lot of them in dad's garden, including the pheasants.
Not blueberries, but we did find two good muscadine vines this afternoon. There is jelly in the future. :)
Quote from: SwampDonkey on August 27, 2011, 08:21:30 AM
Just bringing up this thread to thank those growers who contributed to successfully growing blueberries. Dad has had good luck following some of the information I pulled from this thread and the bushes have really taken off. Some growth on the plants from the rootstock area are 3 feet this year alone. And he has been picking berries for a couple years. When he first started out in the blueberry growing they looked very sick and had a lot of die back.
Thanks all. :)
Glad your dad got things straightened out. What did he end up doing to get them to bare?
Watch the summer leaf color, if dark green things are good, if you he has more to do.
whatever you do, resist the urge to cultivate the bushes. The root system is only a couple of inches deep. Disturb that and they will be stunted or even die. I let the grass grow around mine and keep it mowed. That will also take care of the root sprouts.
Maple he added more sulphur to get the PH down and adds a little each spring and mulches and the foliage is healthy green. Had lots of berries this year to. The branches tips don't seem to winter kill now that they are established. He cuts the grass with weed a whacker because it's too narrow to mow between them, the garden and the blackberries. He's only got 10-12 plants, something to play at. ;)
Donk, do you think blueberries would have a chance to survive on my place?
Check the PH, might have to bring it down with sulphur to get them to grow. Blueberries in the wild can grow in pure sand or real rocky ground, and in dry barrens. There is usually a thin layer of nutrient rich soil just under the duff. And our dry sand and barreny places get a lot of rain in our climate. It's not desert dry.
I mean in the U.P. property
Too wet and with it being a site dominated by cedar, I would say it would be tough. ;)
Ditto! It would be very tough, not a blueberry ecological land type.
Quote from: pineywoods on August 31, 2011, 10:19:23 AM
whatever you do, resist the urge to cultivate the bushes. The root system is only a couple of inches deep. Disturb that and they will be stunted or even die. I let the grass grow around mine and keep it mowed. That will also take care of the root sprouts.
Not so. I bought a hydraulic cultivator "Weed Badger", with a vertical power head to cultivate around my bushes. I drive down the row and using a joystick I move the rotating head in and out between the bushes. My original concern was damaging the fine roots on a bush with very shallow roots to begin with. They told me that doing this encourages the roots to go deeper. I in essence just root prune every time I cultivate. I have been doing this for about 5 years and my bushes keep looking better and better. After the first year they began to be more drought tolerant. Root pruning has proven to work in my 4.5 acres of bushes. I do this at least 2x and some years as much as 5 times a year. The ideal would actually be every 2 weeks during the growing season. Just too little time. Try this link to see it in action: http://www.weedbadger.com/09_products/03_models/09_model_4200/model_4200_p01.htm
This is the model I have, it really works and does not kill the bushes (unless you run over one, it will nicely lay it in the aisle on the surface, I know!
A healthy mature bush (8 yrs +) will yield about 8 qts every year. As the bushes grow, allow the 2 healtiest straightest canes to grow each year. Remove any others late fall. After 7-8 yrs, start removing the 2 oldest canes each year, so a mature bush has 14-16 canes of 7 or 8 age classes.
Quote from: Jeff on August 31, 2011, 03:44:38 PM
Donk, do you think blueberries would have a chance to survive on my place?
Jeff, If the PH is right or if it is in the range of 6.0 or less (would need to be brought down more) you can grow blueberries. If you are concerned about the cold get some varieties hardy in Nova Scotia.
To bring the PH down from 6 or less to 4.2-4.8 ideal range, use sulpher the year before planting and till or mix it into the soil. Then the year of planting, do not fertilize. After that put 1 oz of ammonium sulfate on the surface. Increase 1 oz each year until they are 8 yrs old. Then stay at 8 oz. For cold climates only fertilize in early spring. In milder climates fertilize 1/2 in early spring and 1/2 in mid June. After the bushes start bearing if you want you could send in leaf samples to your co-op extension, or Cornell and they will tell you what additional to do. Blueberries will grow in areas with very poor soil. They like their toes in water but not their feet. In the Jersey Pine Barrens, where blueberries were developed and flourish, they have very sandy, shallow soil. They maintain the water table at about 12-18" below the surface, by using pumps and buried tile. If your natural PH is much above 6.0 you likely have free lime in the soil. You will never reduce the PH to support blueberries. In that case you can grow them in buried containers. In the container mix 1/2 peat moss and 1/2 sand. Use a wooden container and drill a few drainage holes. Then set the container in the ground so the soil mixture is level with the surrounding ground. You will then do as I suggested for fertilizing. You will also want to add about 1 teaspoon of epsom salt about every 5 yrs for magnesium. Blueberries need very little except the nitrogen (ammonium sulfate) and some occasional mag. Do not fertilize with a balanced fertilizer, such as 10-10-10 or similar.
Maple, where Jeff's cedar is in the UP, it's high calcium, that's where white cedar grows best. Even the sand/gravel pits near his place are full of calcium rich ancient coral and conglomerates. Even back east here, they have dredged lime from under white cedar forest. It is also wet land, where if you cut off the cedar the cattails, willows, alders and sedges take over and sometimes (not always) the water table will rise making it worst.
My wife just went to pick our wild blueberries to make some Pancakes. :)
OK if you are very high calcium you would need to container grow. With high calcium you could never hit 4.2-4.8 ideal PH. In fact you could never hit 5.2 PH the highest marginal PH that will grow blueberries, but not real vigorous ones. Sorry.
Jeff probably had wildlife in mind for the blueberries, such as the bears. ;)