Yeah yeah, i know, another Solar Kiln built. I won't bother with too many questions, just pics. If anyone has critics and suggestions they are appreciated.
The Kiln is exclusively built for drying my teakwood and is made 100% out of teakwood :D, because that is what i have. the floor is second quality wood which i can't sell to customers because of cracks and other errors.
it's 5.3m x 1.5m, that gives my enough space to put two packs of wood, or an occasional beam order inside.
Teak is a very easy and forgiving wood to dry, is full of water and can take a quick water removal rate.
I didn't insulate the floor because it's never cold here
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My GF is helping out with the painting, we put one coat of poly water based 3in1 product on, 2 coats in the inside.
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1" T y G floor, that big a... moulder i have is doing quick work out of the different dimensions.
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Quote from: teakwood on December 29, 2022, 07:00:05 AMthe floor is second quality wood which i can't sell to customers
Looking good Sir. :)
@tule peak timber (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=25190) aka WoC could sell that for a King's Ransom. :D
Boy that would make terrific wall panel with the mix of beautiful sapwood. Purpose milled thinner, say 3/8-inch, T&G'd, and uniform packaged at say 4-5 feet long to meet UPS limits,,,,,yes money to be made there! 8) Not to mention that this wall panel would be good for indoor/outdoor applications $$$$$$.
Now if you had boat to get it there. You two could just kill it... :)
Really nice! I love the look of your teakwood you produce. You will likely have one of the world's coolest looking solar kilns when that is finished. 😎
yes it will be so beautiful, that I cannot say "it is just a solar kiln!" Tule will prob. just drive down in his fish camp truck. :)
Instead of my Alaskan heater the gen set could run an air conditioner?
Ramon, good start. Your kiln will be the most attractive solar kiln that I've seen.
Costa Rica and Alaska are two places that I have visited but have not had the opportunity to fish.
Ramon, you've done it again. That is a beautiful floor! Your mortise and tenon sawhorses your girlfriend has material staged on are impressive in their own right, too.
Yes, I would like to order some "second quality, un-sellable" teak please. I will keep the disposal fee low for you so it's not too much of a burden for you to cover the shipping. :D
I think @GeneWengert-WoodDoc (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=20498) would be/is proud.
Quote from: tule peak timber on December 29, 2022, 08:30:02 AM
Boy that would make terrific wall panel with the mix of beautiful sapwood. Purpose milled thinner, say 3/8-inch, T&G'd, and uniform packaged at say 4-5 feet long to meet UPS limits,,,,,yes money to be made there! 8) Not to mention that this wall panel would be good for indoor/outdoor applications $$$$$$.
wait till you see the walls, i don't have 3/8 but i have 5/8 T&G walling which i will use for this kiln, outside and inside ::), will need alot of boards.
We can arrange a container load full of teak shipped to california. :D
Yesterday we put up the structure and late afternoon i was able to finish the beam. screwed 2 rafters together so i got a 4x6
Dry fitting, was concerned about the structure being too high, but after fitting the usual stack of lumber and still need to install ventilators, collector and baffle system i decided to stay with the original plan.
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That is going to be the prettiest solar kiln on the planet. You might want to go into business selling them as a kit. I might get one myself! Lots of sun in the picture, it will be working in that.
Quote from: teakwood on December 30, 2022, 06:49:19 AM
Quote from: tule peak timber on December 29, 2022, 08:30:02 AM
Boy that would make terrific wall panel with the mix of beautiful sapwood. Purpose milled thinner, say 3/8-inch, T&G'd, and uniform packaged at say 4-5 feet long to meet UPS limits,,,,,yes money to be made there! 8) Not to mention that this wall panel would be good for indoor/outdoor applications $$$$$$.
wait till you see the walls, i don't have 3/8 but i have 5/8 T&G walling which i will use for this kiln, outside and inside ::), will need alot of boards.
We can arrange a container load full of teak shipped to california. :D
I keep thinking of some of the advice I posted when you first joined the Forum. In my humble opinion things have not changed and your challenges remain the same.
Quote from: tule peak timber on December 30, 2022, 09:03:07 AM
I keep thinking of some of the advice I posted when you first joined the Forum. In my humble opinion things have not changed and your challenges remain the same.
LINK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=79768.msg1211857#msg1211857)
Encyclopedia Magic Man!😊
Quote from: tule peak timber on December 30, 2022, 09:03:07 AMIn my humble opinion things have not changed and your challenges remain the same.
Happy birthday wizard!!
I beg to differ, things have changed big time for me the last 15years, i still get lots of challenges, different challenges but i like them, they are here to be resolved. i'm alot wiser than 10years ago, but don't tell that my younger version :D :D
Thanks @Magicman (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=10011) for the link, that was nice to reread and go back almost 10 years.
Thanks to @pineywoods (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=4000) and @Planman1954 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=9339) , because i'm stealing their design.
The beam fitted perfect and isn't sagging, of course i had a little "preload" up curve on the beam so she lies there now straight as an arrow.
I knew i wouldn't build this kiln in one week but i'm getting into some details that will rob some time fabricating!
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Yes Sir, it was a very interesting 8 year old read. It was also interesting to do the search to find Rob's reply and advice for you. :P
Question: the channels of the poly roofing need to be sealed over the walls? so no fresh air gets in on the lower side and no hot air escapes on the high side? I think the high side is crucial!?
for control, you want it all well sealed up. they make a wood or foam piece to directly match the patten of the polycarbonate. usually where you got the clear plastic glazing.
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That kiln is nothing short of absolutely beautiful!
Even on your cloudy days, your kiln will likely help the wood dry faster than air drying. I just checked on our load of cypress in our kiln. It was 83°F in the kiln and 70°F outside. The sky has been cloudy all day and it was lightly raining when I took the picture. The day before yesterday, it was over 100°F in the kiln while outside the temperature was in the 60's.
With new, clear roof panels, I think you will be pleased with the performance of your solar kiln. Your kiln looks incredible. I'd be inclined to make a miniature version to dry mangos, pineapples and some of the other delicious fruits in Costa Rica.
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As much hot dry air should be captured and pushed by the fans through the stack of the lumber.
Hot moist air that has been though the stacks can be allowed to escape, as it would be exiting out the vents anyway.
Quote from: doc henderson on December 31, 2022, 08:39:08 AM
for control, you want it all well sealed up. they make a wood or foam piece to directly match the patten of the polycarbonate. usually where you got the clear plastic glazing.
(https://www.hardwareworld.com/files/pi/l0/M/W3AR.jpg)
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Yeah, in a perfect world i could buy them but we are in CR and here you need to improvise. I think i will place some of the fiberwood isolation i'm using on the built.
forget anything spongy, foam, rubber or the likes. the sun will eat it in no time
Making progress, first wall is in, it's where the electrical sockets go for the dehumidifier so it needs to be installed first because all the electrical tubing goes inside the walls
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That's one beautiful sauna! ;)
Isn't there supposed to be a vapor barrier on the inside (under the inside boards) to protect your insulation from getting soggy?
Quote from: ljohnsaw on January 03, 2023, 08:25:40 PM
That's one beautiful sauna! ;)
Isn't there supposed to be a vapor barrier on the inside (under the inside boards) to protect your insulation from getting soggy?
I use two layers of insulation because that's what i had laying around. they are 1.5" thick and my wall structure was made with 3x3". I put the first layer with the aluminium side against the inside and the second layer with the aluminium against the outside. kinda of blocking vapor. it's fiber glass insulation so it doesn't get wet, or am i wrong?? do i need to put a vapor barrier on? we don't have that kind of stuff here, can i put normal plastic on?
another note, the walling is air tight, i hammer the t y g boards together and they are already painted once and we will paint another coat when the kiln is built. do you think lots of vapor will go thru the wood this way?
Don't know if you can get it down there and it would be a shame to cover up that beautiful wood but the best thing to paint the inside of a kiln with is what we call Kool Seal around here. It is used to paint and seal older metal roofs. If you use it, put it on thick. I would at least recommend some kind of plastic moisture barrier between the wood and the insulation.
The kiln should be built like a swimming pool. Watertight on the inside and porous and breathable to the outside. No moisture vapor should be able to penetrate the inside barrier wall to get to the insulation and lower it's R value, but if it does, it can't stay trapped or it will mold inside the walls and ruin the insulation. So it must be able to dry from the exterior wall.
Watertight on the inside, porous to the outside. Plastic, kool seal, Tyvek, spray foam, etc to make the inside layer. Board and batten, T&G on the outside. Since kilns use fans to force air through the stacks of wood, they are slightly pressurized and and so force moist air into the walls unless we'll sealed.
Thanks guys for the quick answers, i needed to know asap so was able to add a plastic at least to the big backwall.
went to the big city yesterday and found the kool seal paint, another brand but the same specs, was amazed that this siliconized roof paint was widely available here, 37$ a gallon so i bought 3. hasn't much coverage, probably because it's a thick paint.
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Looking good!!
The KoollSeal painted over the wood is very durable and will last forever. I mixed mine with black paint so whatever I painted with it was sealed and black.
The idea is that once the kiln is built, it should last for hundreds of loads with zero maintenance or damage. I think mine is more than 15 years old and still working.
I also painted mine black on the outside as well.
That looks like it is going to work amazing! Great build!
Here we go, beautiful teakcolor overpainted lol. but at the end it has to work and it's not there for esthetics
Should i do the floor also? i didn't insulate the floor, so it doesn't matter if it gets moist. Planning on putting on 3 layers of paint, is that about right?
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I would say yes on the floor. It will seal it and help protect the wood. most of the chemicals in the condensate are from teak wood, but may get really concentrated.
Some information for you.
https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/bitstream/handle/10919/98866/420-030_pdf.pdf?sequence=1 (https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/bitstream/handle/10919/98866/420-030_pdf.pdf?sequence=1)
teak what is your latitude? what is your final angle on the roof? just wondering. the primary objective of the vapor barrier and thus the aluminum paint is to seal the chamber and protect the insulation. if you have no insulation in the floor, then it is not as important from that prospective.
KoolSeal is a reflective thermal barrier, so even without insulation, it would be a good way contain as much heat in the kiln as possible.
I painted mine flat black, inside and out, floor to ceiling. The black paint will turn the entire interior and exterior into a solar collector. During the winter in the sun, my flat black exterior will be noticeably warm to the touch, transferring as much solar energy as possible to the structure. For me, the solar kiln worked fine when there as a lot of sun, it was when there wasn't sun that I tried to optimize it. It would be hard to paint the teak on the outside, it sure looks nice.
There is potential that that at some point you may get some standing water on the floor of the kiln, either from washing it, rain, or sometimes there is so much condensation that it puddles on the floor. If you cut a small 1" drain hole or similar in a convenient place in the floor, and put in a plug, that's one less thing to worry about.
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I will definitively not paint over the wood on the outside :D. Bought a 43 pint dehumidifier, the only "big" unit i could find, for 300$ :o. we are used to overpay for everything in CR.
second coat is in and i still have half the paint left. still need to do the doors and the floor
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electrical is done with 3 plug ins over the beam. i will put 4 fans in, i thought that more will be better
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Quote from: doc henderson on January 06, 2023, 07:39:09 AMteak what is your latitude? what is your final angle on the roof? just wondering
we are 11 degrees north. i did 20cm drop per meter of roof, that's about 11 degrees roofangle. you shouldn't go lesser than that, we have heavy rains in the rainseason and they need to flow away. roof angle will not matter alot, our sun here is alot stronger than where you guys live, a dry season day with sun form 6am to 6pm and 100 degrees you want to definitively avoid working in the sun, it's bad. probably need to vent the kiln so it won't melt away :D
$300 isn't bad, and I used one during the winter months to boost drying. I would take it out in the summer so it wouldn't get cooked and the solar is working full throttle.
Airflow in a kiln can really help, as long as it's not enough to cause surface checking. Generally the wetter the wood, the more effect fans have to the point where they can dry almost as fast on wet wood as a kiln, but as the wood dries out, the fans become less effective and that's where the heat from the kiln comes into play.
not making much progress in the kiln because we had a dry weather window saturday and where able to get logs home, so back to sawing.
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did a diffusor board on the upper edge of the kiln so the airflow increases
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Making progress, dry season is here and i need this oven ASAP.
Mounts for the fans and the collector system
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the "attic" where the fans should create a vacuum and push the hot air down
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Nice logs, they are getting bigger. This one was 37cm diam, 15"
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the color is just awesome, and that's without the water trick
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I chose to paint the floor in our solar kiln white.
The floor will not see the sun when the chambers are full because the wood casts a shadow and the wood is covered with light weight plywood (painted black) as a baffle and to keep the direct sun off of the top layer of wood.
When the kiln is empty, I did not want a black floor to cause the chambers to overheat without the mass of the drying lumber to soak up that potential excess heat.
I do enjoy working with teak, you are lucky to have an excess amount for your own personal projects. Although, perhaps it is so common to you as pine is common to many of us; maybe you would enjoy something "different" for a change.
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The best and easiest way to keep the kiln from overheating with an empty chamber is to prop open a door.
Man, it's a lot of work to do a proper solar kiln. thinking 2-3 days more and done
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Really nice looking! I did a teak job yesterday and was thinking of your operation. :)
Where do you get your teakwood from and how much does it cost? what dimensions?
I'm still working off of stock I have leftover from my dabbling in the teak business years ago. I haven't looked at the teak business lately, but did develop a business plan, which is now history. I hear that teak prices are sky high here in the States and my stockpile is steadily waning. LOL!
Do you have fotos from this left over teak? Where is it from? How old? Big or small growth rings? Interesting for me
Almost done, tomorrow i start excavating where the kiln will be placed, need more space.
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the two middle doors are heavy, need to put some handles on so they can be easier removed
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got the electrical box installed
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and did the baffle system, easy peasy
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the toys arrived
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Before and after, man did that gave some nice space, a lot more room now
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it would have been better to open the quarry up here beside my house ::) was a pita to excavate
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the kiln looks small now on the outside, lol
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everything done and loaded up with lumber and then rain ::) ::)
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a question; the first night it was 75 outside, inside the kiln 81. the DH sucked 2 gallons out at night, the fans are pushing hard. at the exhaust vents you could feel warmer air coming out. does the kiln work at night this way? it's so well isolated that the heat produced by the DH and the fan motors heat the kiln a little bit. should i buy a second DH? it would surely help
It (a second DH) would help most with capacity to remove moisture, and that becomes less important when the wood begins to get dry. Sounds like a great maiden voyage. It would be interesting to know the RH in the kiln. If it stays at 100% then your humidifier is at its capacity. heat from the sun increases the internal temp and thus reduces the RH. At night when the temp goes down the RH goes up. Since your outside RH is so high, it is nice to have the DH to create dryer internal air. If you vent too much, then outside air replaces the dryer dehumidified air and in effect, you are trying to reduce humidity in Costa Rica. I think it would help to know the inside and outside RH, to know when venting is helpful vs spinning your wheels. In your area the DH makes sense.
The wood in the kiln would still be warm from the daytime cycle. Fair bit of thermal mass in there that's slowly losing heat to the air in the kiln. Only concern I would have with adding more DH capacity is drying too fast. How your kiln operates in the tropics would be slightly different to the Nth American conditions so there is probably a bit of experimenting to find the optimal setup.
Quote from: doc henderson on January 27, 2023, 10:58:59 AM
It (a second DH) would help most with capacity to remove moisture, and that becomes less important when the wood begins to get dry. Sounds like a great maiden voyage. It would be interesting to know the RH in the kiln. If it stays at 100% then your humidifier is at its capacity. heat from the sun increases the internal temp and thus reduces the RH. At night when the temp goes down the RH goes up. Since your outside RH is so high, it is nice to have the DH to create dryer internal air. If you vent too much, then outside air replaces the dryer dehumidified air and in effect, you are trying to reduce humidity in Costa Rica. I think it would help to know the inside and outside RH, to know when venting is helpful vs spinning your wheels. In your area the DH makes sense.
Ok, first some info. the lumber i put in was already airdried for one month and is at 22% moisture, so it's not wet anymore. put in about 2.5m3/1100bd ft. that's the kilns max capacity.
today we had sun from 12pm to 5pm, the kiln went to max 38C/ 100F, outside was 30C/ 86F. outside humidity was 55-60% and inside the kiln 75%.
The DH showed 50% inside but that's just not possible, you can feel the warm wet air coming outside the vents.
The DH pushes about 14lt /3.5gal out in 24h
I think i need a good outside/inside thermometer with humidity readings and some cable sensors, does anybody have experience with a good product?
it's 7pm and the sun went down 2h ago and it's still 32.5C /90.5F inside, outside is 25C/ 77F
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Not sure I would call them "great" but "good", is the accurite with a remote to put in the kiln, and a base that measure inside your shop or outside depending on where you put is. I get them on amazon and they used to be 14 bucks.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/423F861C-A429-41CB-B108-7ACF4BDFBC68.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1664450055)
this one is in the shop and the remote is 100 feet away in my metal container with a DH unit. I turn it on once a month or so to reduce the humidity for my stored lumber in there. I monitor the temp and humidity from inside the shop to know when to go turn on the fans and DH.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/E5507366-D8D9-4988-85B3-D1AEF7045D9A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1549913845)
this is an outside stack that I dried down to 8% under clear plastic.
thanks doc for all the help.
but dang!! you even have the neater stacks than me!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20221224_104859.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1674873480)
well, I am older and more experienced, but I still do not have teak! :) :) :)
I have a thread on how I stack sticker individual logs. what you are doing with pallets will work best for you.
i made about 40 pallets by now and will run out of free ones in 2 weeks. we finally do have some stock in the storage, but i want more! have 800 deck boards stickered now, the goal is 2000, and have them dried (15% is fine) so when a bigger order of 500 boards come in i just tell the costumer: come pick up the planed and grooved boards in 2 days ;D ;D
except for the 4 x 4s those are single wide stacks from one log each bundle. your operation has grown leaps and bounds. Very good.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=105726.msg1646583#msg1646583
your stacks are very neat. the accurite in the picture is 30 bucks on amazon. it has back lighting for in the dark, and has a high and low reading for 24 hours. I would put the remote in the kiln, and the base in the open shop area.
It's unusual to have only 1 sticker per 4 feet. Most times that will induce a sag between stickers when heated in a kiln. I've never dried teak so don't know how it behaves.
I know Robert, but i have never had any problems stickering like this. Will see if the kiln makes any difference because of this stickering space. I don't think so, 70% of the drying happens in the 1-2 month of airdrying prior to the kiln drying.
However most wood shrinkage happens below fsp (fiber saturation point) so the outcome of the kiln drying should answer the question. Teak may be different here. Great to follow along.
Wow, this kiln is just astonishing me in any ways, never expected such results. at 2pm the kiln goes to 45C/113F
last night at 8pm it was 38C /100F
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230130_183430.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675165491)
and today at 5.30am 34C /93F incredible the heat it maintains over the night (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230131_052807.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675165491)
since 4 days the kiln is loaded and the 1" boards went from 22% to 16%, i'm just amazed.
Put in another DH yesterday and the 4th fan that was still missing, now the built is complete and i spent 2200$ on it and a ton of working hours. but dang this kiln will pay for itself in 2 month. thank you all for the incredible help and wisdom , it's a full success. i'm so happy!
It would be interesting to compare inside and outside RH.
outside at day 55-65% inside 45-70% i don't get that, of course it's very hot inside so the air can take more moisture, but when i stick my arm inside the vent window i can feel the moisture.
I measured with the 25$ wind speed gadget i bought, so not very confident in the readings.
Will buy a thermometer as suggested
I know our wood is getting close to dry when the RH inside gets low. I'm glad your kiln is working well. I had no doubt. Our kiln is the only thing that makes us money without a lot of labor involved.
I thought about you today when I saw an oak tree that was painted white for the first several feet above the ground. I noticed that that was a common practice in CR. What is the purpose for that?
I think that means your kiln is working and pulling water from the wood. the RH will fluctuate a lot. remember it is relative to the temp. so at 20° warmer inside the kiln, the RH may be the same inside and outside, but there is more water in the air inside the kiln. so then some venting will take out the moisture laden air and replace it with dryer air. the fresh air from outside may have the same RH going in, but after warming 20° in the kiln the RH drops and stats picking up the moisture from the wood. You are using the sun and mechanical for heat. you can vent and loose heat, or use the DH. If you keep records, you can see what works best and then try to replicate that in your kiln despite changes in the weather. the RH is the water in the air based on the temperature and how much water could be held all the way to 100%. as the temp goes up the water amount that can be held goes up, so the saturation % of that air goes down. RH.
Quote from: caveman on January 31, 2023, 09:36:37 PMI thought about you today when I saw an oak tree that was painted white for the first several feet above the ground. I noticed that that was a common practice in CR. What is the purpose for that?
We (foreigners) don't get that either. they say it looks nice, think that's the only reason. but this practice is getting less common every year.
I think i will unload the 1" boards from the kiln in 2 days and put another load in. so mi question is: do i need to cool down the wood for a day before i put it on the outside?
that's the load now, a stack of 1" and a stack of 3"
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230131_075242.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675252226)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230131_075234.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675252224)
Quote from: doc henderson on February 01, 2023, 06:41:44 AMthe RH will fluctuate a lot. remember it is relative to the temp. so at 20° warmer inside the kiln, the RH may be the same inside and outside, but there is more water in the air inside the kiln.
Thanks Doc, that confirms my theory. i have RH readings in the kiln from 45% to 75% and was confused.
I am glad to hear that. I was afraid you might tell me you already knew all that. the accurite I pictured is now 30 bucks on amazon, and has worked well for me. you could daily look at the max and low temps and humidity and record these. you will see a pattern and it may help to know when to vent or when to run the DH. what is the MC of the wood. If it is lower than what it would attain outside, then you may want to cover it and or dead stack to keep it dry. If you goal was to just speed up the process to get to EMC (the MC it would get to at the RH outside) then you can do what ever. Do you have a target MC?
Quote from: doc henderson on February 01, 2023, 07:05:33 AMI am glad to hear that. I was afraid you might tell me you already knew all that.
I was a smart ass when i was young and still kinda am, but i have learned to listen :D
i will explain my situation a little. the natural EMC in my wood over the year is 12-16% (rain and dryseason) the goal was to speed up drying as i sell the lumber faster then it air drys. so target % for deck boards is 16%, the 1" now measures 15% on the probes and the boards on top which i could reach with the pin meters are 9-11%. the idea is to let the wood rest at a normal outside environment in my storage for at least a month, so the boards can gain or release moisture as they want and calm down.
for panel/furniture lumber i want a MC of 12-14%
Not my goal to tell anyone stuff they already know. we are finding this interesting in a different environment than out own. I took a biology of organisms class in college and the professor Dr. Craig E. Martin was a conceptual teacher. This made it hard for the 400 pre-med folks in the class that would spend hours studying and memorizing facts. the mean on the first test was 43%. Each test would have two questions about half a page long. he would ask a question about plant physiology but make up a planet with different gasses and a different terminal electron receptor in the mitochondria/chloroplast. you had to understand it not memorize it. you had to listen in class and ask a question if you did not understand the concept. I then did research with him for a few years. you either loved him or hated him.
great work and success Teak.
Yesterday, after 7days of drying, i took the 1" boards out of the kiln and loaded a new pack.
the dried boards went from 22% to 10-13% which is beneath my target MC, so i couldn't ask for a better performance.
I remember at the first project that Gene the woodDoc came to, I had just finished building my kiln. I hadn't even run a load through it. With Gene's level of knowledge and experience and the fact that I had no clue what I was doing, I fully expected to get told what I had done wrong. Gene in his kind way went on to explain the main thing that he saw wrong with my kiln. That was that I had not planned on where I was going to put the next two kilns. He was absolutely correct and I see that you may have made the same mistake. Once you get one and you see how they add to your operation, it doesn't take long for you to start looking on where to put the next ones. Of course with the knowledge you learned on the first one they will be the new and improved 2.0 versions.
Great work on your kiln build. Keep in mind that by adding another pack of 1x lumber you might raise the moisture in the 2x that is in there already for a little while. This may or may not be a problem with Teak.
Kilns are like Pringles, you cant have just one. I've got 3, and that's enough for me....maybe...
:D :D :D that gave me a good laugh!
I think i'm ok. with 1.5 month of air drying and 7days in the kiln i can dry wood alot faster than i sell it. in this dry season (5month more form now) i will dry so much wood that it will last me for the whole year.
and i do have more space for more kilns, but i really do not want to build another one :D. we will see
thanks for all, Ramon
Spoken like a individual with their first kiln. Once word gets out that you are drying the wood then the sales go up and you need another.
My wife said that your kiln looks like a piece of furniture.
:D I'm glad to sell her one at furniture price! She can store her rope and shoes in there. Just place it in the shade and it will stay cool and dry ;D
I'm pretty sure the shipping would be a deal breaker lol
The shipping would be cheap compared to my price! :D :D
The world may never know lol good job on the kiln!
Put a second load of 1" boards (already at 16% air dried) in Thursday and had to take it out yesterday, Monday, because it was at 10%!! :o. put the third load in at 15% airdried and will take that out probably in 4 days. that means that in the first two weeks of operation the kiln dried 420 1x5" deckboards, which is absolutely amazing. and that is half of the kiln space, the other half is still occupied with the 3" thick stack, currently at 22%.
I paid 1.3$ per board for external drying and transport to the kiln (100 miles trip), so the kiln already made me 546$ in two weeks, a NO BRAINER! I'm eager to see how the electricity bill comes in, i have a almost exclusive service for the kiln so any increase in this bill is related to the kiln. I don't expect it to be more than 100$.
did some experimenting with drying fruits in the kiln, they turned out delicious
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230206_110633.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1675771420)
most of the time we have an excess of bananas ,now i know what to do with them.
second load, starfruit
Ramon, I'm glad the kiln is working so well for you. When you start drying mangos, I may have to come down and check out your operation. With your work ethic and attention to detail, you have made huge strides with your business.
.
Gee!
Do you ever wonder if you made a kiln out of Stainless Steel and only dried fruit to organic health food stores, could you make more money selling the fruit than you earn selling teak?
or do both? :) 8)
.
I don't have a market study or looked into a business plan for dried fruit, but here are my thoughts;
I don't have enough fruit for a business so would have to buy. the green houses are pretty big to produce fruit in a larger scale (watched a video from Thailand where they dry bananas) , would hate to deal with government licensees and health ministry codes and other BS. I think the market is already covered.
To be successful with a business you need one of two things; Produce a large amount or have a niche market.
I have found my niche market and built a successful business around it. I'm happy with it and will stay with what i have. Have expanded/invested to a point where the whole operation is at a sweet spot, i think it can't get any better from this point. I guess i'm at 90-95% of a perfect business balance, and that is pretty hard to achieve.
any growth from here and it opens a whole different can of worms. No thanks, i'm good.
Quote from: YellowHammer on January 28, 2023, 07:22:23 AM
It's unusual to have only 1 sticker per 4 feet. Most times that will induce a sag between stickers when heated in a kiln. I've never dried teak so don't know how it behaves.
Well, after 4 loads thru the kiln i can confirm that my stickering system works perfectly.
No bow, cup, twist, crack or split more than normal air drying, i'm a happy happy camper.
Man, that kiln is probably the best thing i did in my life so far, working since 3 weeks and already paid for half of it's cost, i'm not kidding. Thank to you guys for encourage me to build one.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230211_081150.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676216047)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230211_081236.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676216051)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230211_081229.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676216035)
Next load for the sawmill. For you guys not familiar with teak, thats one heck of a quality load of logs. all the thinnings are starting to pay off, look at the sapwood-heartwood proportion and the color of the wood. and it gets better every year
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230208_172803.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676216019)
the kiln is getting hotter every day, we are getting more and more into dryseason 45C/115F, any more and i think i will start to vent the kiln at daytime. Don't want to melt anything in there and really don't need to speed up the process any more. the DH's are getting very hot
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230210_145510.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676216017)
and look what finally made it to CR, thanks to Eric, also known as the guy who invented the 8th workday a week :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230211_144656.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676215663)
Your board stacks look great. How old are the logs on the trailer? Lots of heartwood.... :)
you mean the log deck? those trees are 17years old and are a nice medium size. remember, i only thin and let the best trees standing. diam is 10-16" on the first log.
If you sell roundwood, logs, the first thing a buyer does is have you cut a tree to see how the color is, if it's nice dark as my trees then you get payed a better price. they grow a little slower than in the Caribbean side because we have a 4 month dry season but we get alot more money out of our wood because of the color and the nice heart wood.
Happy birthday @YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) ,enjoy your day.
emptied the kiln yesterday, 4 loads of 1" boards within 18days and the stack on the right was 3" which went from 42% to 19% inside the core, outside was 8%, thats way enough for my uses. will let them sit for 10 days so they find their EMC, and then i have to made 46x 3" stair steps out of them.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230213_074125.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676374851)
I put in another load of 1" boards, two fresh packs, pretty much green of the sawmill, wanted to try how it goes with wet wood. it's funny how this affects the kiln, the kiln is struggling to get as hot as the other days and stays several degress below the max temp. And of course the DH's are putting alot more water out, they do 20lt each/ day.
It's good to see it working and thanks for the Happy Birthday wishes. The more moisture in the kiln the more energy it takes to convert the large amounts of liquid to vapor, or the enthalpy required goes up. So that's one real good way to control temps or "ballast" your kiln, and it's also how I almost burned my solar kiln down.
We had a power outage and I forgot to open the doors on the empty kiln, came back the next day and the plastic roof and fan blades had gotten so hot they had melted. Oops. I don't recommend that.
HBD YH!
After 6 weeks the kiln payed for itself, at least the money i invested. didn't calculate the lumber and my hours. Pretty sure that would add up to at least 15k, but well, the kiln is a money machine. :)
it's getting sunnier and hotter by the day, now i need to went the kiln form 1-3 pm so the DH wont burn up. I'm getting 48C /119F which i don't want to exceed. Teak is a very easy wood to dry, just throw it in there and several days later it's dry
3/4" boards 5 days from wet to 12%
1" boards 10 days
3" 20-25 days
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230228_131432.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1677671286)
Been a few weeks since I checked on this and I see you've made incredible progress. Congrats on the kiln! Glad to see it paying off and I think that even during the rainy season you'll find it speeds drying.
Glad to see the quarry news as well.
All kidding aside expand your mill/drying footprint. I could definitely see a few more solar kilns in your future as well as the need for more drying. Also, since I am spending your money and time, start shopping for the hydraulic sawmill with an ability to do long beams (niche-but one with promise).
Thanks guys
I don't see a future where i would need more drying capacity, i'm almost running out of wood to dry, can't saw fast enough with all the other things going on. but that's ok, i'm armed with lots of dry lumber now, ready for clients. got about 1000 selected deckboards ready for the 4sider. lots of boards for paneling orders.
the beam order fell through, well that's part of the business. i got about 10 estimates out, some will come back as orders.
I don't sell lots of beams, they are freaking expensive, if i go bigger mill you know how it goes, bigger that, bigger this, then you need to upgrade that. I like the operation i have now, and at my age i don't want to invest a lot more, now it's time to save up some for my retirement.
I think i need a new car :D ::)
oh, the electricity bill came in, one full month of 24/7 drying 875kw, 200$. thought it would be less but i think the DH's sucks lots of juice. it's ok, i dried a multiple times the value of lumber in this month
Quote from: teakwood on March 02, 2023, 07:14:02 AMoh, the electricity bill came in, one full month of 24/7 drying 875kw, 200$. thought it would be less but i think the DH's sucks lots of juice. it's ok, i dried a multiple times the value of lumber in this month
My maths says that's a bit over 1 kw/h of power. Probably about right for a couple of D/H units running full time. It's also why the conventional solar kiln plan uses venting to dump the moisture. Not as fast as using DHs, but then the fans might only need 0,1 kw, and only be running 1/2 the day at that I guess it comes back to the cheap / good / fast equation, as usual.
The DH is 370watt each and each fan is 160watt . 2x DH and 4x fans = 1.380 kw/h
I needed to dry fast and did lots of lumber, will keep running like this until may, then rainseason starts and it will be alot cloudier and more humid. So maybe i turn the kiln off sometimes, I don't know yet
Quote from: teakwood on March 02, 2023, 10:17:59 PM= 1.380 kw/h
Yeah, the power draw basically checks out then. I suspect the drying will simply be slower in the more cloudy weather, but with the naturally warm climate the kiln should still dry. Even without the sun you are still adding 1.3 kw of energy into the kiln system, that can be used to evaporate water. If you are able to set the DHs to a certain humidity level (say 40%), then they will switch off if the drying is slow, rather than struggling to remove every last drop of water from the air. With slower drying maybe they only need a 50% duty cycle. Might take 2X as long, but the power draw will be down too.
So yeah, some more experimenting. :)
that's a freaking good idea, the DH's do have a humidity button and i had them on continuous, so i will switch them to 40% and see what happens.
and yes the kiln will work in the rainseason also, with 2-3 hours of sun he warms up pretty good and will hold that heat, the DH's put out alot of heat thru their exhaust fans so that helps too. it will be slower for sure. we will see if cost-benefits makes any sense or just stall the kiln during rain season.
What is the total Hp of all the DH units combined?
0.74kw, so pretty much 1hp
changed the DH settings to 40% and at day they stopped working (the lumber is at the end of its circle). Will see if they start again at night. but it doesn't makes much sense to run them full when there is low humidity inside the kiln.
agreed!
That was a superb idea, now the DH's individually shut of at day and get back to work at night, when the humidity passes 40%.
what amazes me is that inside the kiln there are 2 different climates although it's only one chamber. the left side is loaded with 3/4" boards green from the sawmill and the DH is working 24/7 but the right side has 1" boards which where air dried for about 3 weeks and the DH shuts off because they are a lot drier already.
Been reading a ton on the forum here the past 6 months and Teakwood I've gotta say, your operation is one of my favorites. Thanks so much for sharing the pics and info from your various projects, it's so much fun to see what you are working on. You are quite the craftsman, this may be the worlds finest wood built kiln! Best wishes!
Thanks alot.
the kiln is definitively a moneymaker, makes me 1300$ every month. it's now working since 4 months and has dried 23 loads of teakwood. this year has been so good that we can't keep up with sawing, storage is always half empty. the plan was to fill it up in the dryseason and then not having to saw in the wetseason but we need to keep producing or i will run out of wood in 2 months.
Went to visit my number 1 client, an american house developer in a touristy area.
the sealing is from another company, the rest is my wood
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG-20230605-WA0007.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1686051695)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230603_143005.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1686051695)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230603_141657.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1686051693)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230603_141650.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1686051690)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230603_141157.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1686051689)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230603_143533.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1686051698)
Nice, keep it up! 8)
That is stunning. I'm glad the solar kiln has been successful.
The woodwork is beautiful, no doubt, very impressive.
But your solar kiln story is one of the best success stories I think I have read on the forum for such a short timeline. I couldn't find it, but I am pretty sure I saw you write somewhere, not very long ago, that you were 'thinking' of building a kiln. Then started it (and this thread) shortly after. Now your have been running it 4 months and showing revenue, steady revenue, every month and it is now driving other parts of your business harder. Not only do I find the pretty incredible, I find it amazing as well as impressive.
I could not be happier for you, but for sure you earned it, every bit of it. You are going to be the Bargemonkey of Costa Rica in no time. :D ;D
Wow - what a house. What is the floor? How big is that place? What does a pad like that sell for there?
The floor is stamped concrete burnt with acid. it's his thing, he perfected this technique and is using it on all his houses
Lots are between 200k to 1 million $. This house is at least 800m2 (8600 sqft), it's big. the house will be 1.5-2million $, i have no idea how much the land was as its on a real big property, i would guess at least 3 acres. it has alot of garden, they planted lots of fruit trees, there is a hidden 60000 gallon water tank with recycled waste water for the irrigation of the garden
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on June 06, 2023, 08:57:51 PMBut your solar kiln story is one of the best success stories I think I have read on the forum for such a short timeline. I couldn't find it, but I am pretty sure I saw you write somewhere, not very long ago, that you were 'thinking' of building a kiln. Then started it (and this thread) shortly after. Now your have been running it 4 months and showing revenue, steady revenue, every month and it is now driving other parts of your business harder. Not only do I find the pretty incredible, I find it amazing as well as impressive.
Thanks. I think i started thinking about a kiln last October and started building December/ January. started using the kiln at the end of January and have it working 24/7 since. when i get into a project i go full in, want to have it done. i don't have the space to have several ongoing projects laying around. you guys encouraged me and i went for it and yes, the whole kiln built is a success story but remember i'm no hobby dryer/ sawmiller. I have a full time lumber operation here and make a living out of it, the kiln was just the missing piece in this chain. So i knew the kiln would make me some money i just never imagined it would work out that good.
Men do i have a nice business opportunity, the big teak sawmill that closed (where i bought all the machines from, forklift, conveyer, sliding table saw...) has alot of teak lumber laying around. they gave me a very good price for 1.5x4" lumber, already planed and kiln dried, like 35% of my market value, so i think i go for it. use some of the quarry dollars i have pilling up :D. just need to find a market to resell, im thinking as deckboards, but normally i sell 1x4, 1x5 deckboards.
I am not sure if you are talking nominal size or not, but can the wood be re-sawn into something closer to what you would sell?
I would probably be all over that deal. I would try to find or make a market for it before I started resawing it. Half the time when you find that market you'll start cutting your own trees different as the new market is more profitable.
Was looking at the lumber yesterday, the deal just got a little less interesting. the packs look great but we put one down with the forklift and i went thru it a little bit. they where all cut of the center of the log. boards where sawn around the pit and then when a 4x4 center block was left they cut that in half. that means several things, all boards are bowed, some alot, some less. for deck boards that's not a dealbraker, i can work with that putting them thru the 4 sider and bring them down from 1.5" to 1.25". width is 4.25" so that's easily straightened with my molder. but they also have the center hole in them, 90% of the boards. teak has a pencil big soft hole in its center and it's a defect, so thats another concern. Lots of split and cracked pieces also, that means i have to dismantle the whole packs and go thru it one by one and shorten the bad pieces
these are the planed once 1.5x4"
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20230607_145910.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1686397408)
and these are the 1.8x4", air dried, rough sawn. look at that bow!! I told the foreman, why do you guys put them with the same bow direction when stickering?? if you alter the bow they can be straightened pretty good in the drying process. Lack of training for the workers and no interest from management to address the issue ::). what a lost of money. they do cut most of the pieces up in 1-3' sections because they would have gone to the fingerjointer machine
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG-20230607-WA0031.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1686397407)
Update: Now it's rainseason, although a pretty soft one, enough rain but lots of sunshine also. I was scratching my head over why the kiln is getting hotter way quicker than in dryseason. It's 1.5h of sunshine and the kiln hits 45 degrees. i ask the neighbors teakcompany foreman, he told me have you heard of the high radiation rates we had these days. That makes sense.
So although a solar kiln, it works 24/7, 365d in this climate. I couldn't be happier.
Ramon, it is hard for me to believe that it was last December when we were discussing the viability of you making a solar kiln. I'm not sure how many loads you have run through yours since you built it, but it seems like quite a few.
I'm at the 28th load. Remember it's a small kiln, about 2.5m3 per load but at 28 loads that's about 3 triaxle truck loads and the monthly electrical bill is about 200$, so that's pretty acceptable.
Well, the kiln is working since exactly 1 year and i put 35 loads thru it. the kiln was probably on for 10 month in this period. so it dried 70 stacks, roughly 9000 boards, made me (saved me) 12000$ minus 2000$ electrical bill. that's 10k in profit, i'm way more flexible with my own kiln now, speeded up my process and at least saved me another 3k in labor for not needing to stack and unstack to send it out to another drier. that adds up to at least 15-17k profit, the kiln costed me 2400$ in materials, without my labor (i don't get paid anyways)
Total annual profit = 15000 $
Thanks for all the help!
IMG_20240211_080839.jpg
I'm glad it worked out well for you. Depending on demand, it might be time to build another one or two. Ours does not have the volume put through it that yours has, but it is the only thing that we have that makes us money without us working. It does a really good job drying wood to boot.
Still looks great too.