firewood business

[crankin]

my first post but I'd like to say this site and the info from members is excellent. I was thinking of starting a firewood business and was wondering if it would be a smart decision . I'll be moving from LI  new york back to nek in vt and one thing that is always needed and always bought regardless of economy is firewood . I would have money to buy a processor and was wondering if anyone is familiar with the chomper or what would be your choice if buying one . Also wondering if it pays to buy a large woodlot or harvest off other people's land etc'. Would there be a market to process other people's firewood . Any help or thought's would be greatly appreciated.

[Tom]

Welcome to the forum, Crankin.

I'm not a firewood guy, but I most always have an opinion. 

The chomper has posts written about it here and a processor is the way to go if you want to get into the firewood business.  I'm sure there will be guys offering their opinions who are in the business.

I'd buy a woodlot just to live on.  That way I wouldn't have to put up with the people in town.  I'd do that even if I didn't sell my own wood.  It would be nice to have a backup supply of wood if things got tight though.

There's lots of wood that can be had for free or even charge people to dump, if you have the space and zoning.

One company that got started here in Jacksonville started a dump facility for arborists and tree companies in the surrounding towns.  They were getting $30 a ton when the County dump was charging $35.  Then they would split and sell the wood all over the State to homeowners and bar-b-cue houses alike.

They finally had to move because the County, unable to find them doing anything wrong, condemned their incinerator.  They were using it to burn the trash and tops and selling the ash.  Now they are a County south and still doing fine, as far as I've heard.

[Magicman]

I can't help you with your questions concerning a firewood business, but I can say Hello and Welcome to The Forestry Forum.....

[wi woodcutter]

crankin welcome to the forum.

Secondly I have a firewood business myself. Before I spend huge money on a processor I would make SURE I had the market to support it. Maybe a better way to start would be just get a splitter and start slow. As far as getting wood if you had a processor I think that your time would be taken up with running the processor and marketing the wood. I think to justify having a processor you are going to need to sell 100's of cords, they are a big investment. With that the best way would be to just buy the wood from local loggers. For brands of processors look at Block-busters they seem to be a good bang for the buck. I have seen one of those Chompers I don't think that they would that great, but I could wrong.

[woodmills1]

I have a small chomper, it is great, but small

I started out chainsaw, pick up, hand split, firewood business, full time job, check some of my recent posts


I am getting a multitek 1610 this week or next.


get your customers, get free wood or short money wood at least to start

do you have a dump truck?
you need one

[Maine372]

i think you would do better to make some firewood in NEK and take it back to LI. make it nice a pretty, bundle it, all even lengths and clean splits. sell it for $50 a bundle.

i suspect that in NEK, like any where else rural, everybody and their brother is in the firewood business. whether its just a saw and a pickup or a full blown show. and alot of people are on the same page with you. people laid off are starting to use firewood as a side job or replacement income. and people are cutting (or stealing) thier own to save money.

i wouldnt suggest going all in on a processor unless you can move enough wood to pay for it. that means wood out as well as wood in. most guys i know running a processor purchase tree length hardwood pulp. infact most of them get better than hardwood pulp. straight, no smaller than 4 or 5 inches and 12-24ft lengths. they are usually picky about species too, no popple, little or no birch. since most of thier suppliers have contracts at pulp mills too they can get rid of the rest there. (or chip it)

start small. build a customer base. build a reputation. it may be harder than think to get started when youre the new guy in town.

[240b]

firewood in the kingdom is a tough one. too,many guys who are willing to work for very little.  wood is pricy up there due to pulp markets in n.h.(shelburne) and almost all the wood lots were cut off(hard) 15/ 20 yrs ago. Forget about free wood up there too. There are afew big processors st.j, lyndonville, barton, but those guys have been at it for years and can get wood regardless. You might do ok starting w/a splitter and ton truck.  I love the kingdom but its a tough place to make a go of it. My folks and sister live there still.  I moved an hour and half south. no doubt its a great place to live.  good luck

[woodmills1]

once again I will ask all to post their location/fill out profile so we others have a chance at knowing where you are to taylor our responses.

It is part of what makes the FF the FF :P

[gunman63]

Being in the firewood business also, I started with a  processor right away, its a hakki, 1x37, cost 15-20 grand depending on powerplant and feeddeck, not a lot of money i dont think, dont look at 50 grand  and up starting out, dont buy used, someone elses problem, go with a dump trailer, 14'-16' long  can haul to to 2 cords, lower to the ground, easier to load, pickup insurance covers the trailer, cheaper linsense than a dumptruck, skidsteer is a must tho.

[indiaxman1]

Having a company dump trees/tops guarantees your supply...a guy I used to cut with has an agreement with local rural electric and tree services..never leaves his lot.....sells by the rick near state road.....always busy, but it is full time labor intensive......business is good esp with cold temps here

[bill m]

Having the local tree services dump their wood is not the best of ideas. Mostly you get the real big stuff no one wants to cut and split. Contracting with some local loggers will get you better wood for a processor.

[woodmills1]

My tree guys cut house trees and they are happy to have me take away everything.  Ya does needs a log loader or trailer truck to do that.  notice I didn't say trailer truck trash :D

[crankin]

thanks for the replies and welcomes. i know it could be a tough market there being a new guy or the flatlander syndrome that is rather common there. when i was ordering some wood this past aug i called 4 ads in the paper . 2 never called back and the 3rd guy was 3 weeks behind and i went with him . the 4th guy called more than a week later . i grew up in the st johnsbury area and know a lot of people there so I figure building a client base wont be to difficult especially if I dont mind selling to the "flatlanders" .I'm a builder by trade but business is business and i've found out through the years if your honest, do what you say and when you say you'll have many clients. Eastern Long Island is gettin pretty crowded and I really don't like being sorta trapped out here in the event of an emergency, seems like ny could have a big bulls eye sittin on it.

[Mooseherder]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum crankin!
Sounds like you could make a go of it and always fall back on your other skills while building your business.  When you mentioned buying woodlots it reminded me of a guy I went to School with.  He became a logger who kept buying up Woodlots to log.  He ended up with over 3 thousand acres. :D
Another logger from the same area has more acres than that.  He is trying to sell a 2500 acre tract right now.  Funny how things turn out.  Good luck to you! ;)

[Black_Bear]

Maine 372 and 240b hit the nail square on the head. The firewood market is saturated up here, although sale prices are down from last year. There are a lot of suppliers, some big time, most small time.

NewPage pulp may have an effect on the market, but for the most part there are a lot of woodcutters who don't even think about pulp, it all goes to firewood. Once you get north of Sheffield heights it becomes a long haul to Shelburne and is often counterproductive. Or, you have to sell to a concentration yard and take a hit on price.

Finding wood to cut is hard to do, but not impossible. I was part of a rather ruthless crew that clearcut 100s of acres at a whack in the 90s and early 2000, but I think it's an overstatement that all the woodlots were cut hard 15-20 years ago. There is plenty of wood out there, but buying stumpage or land is difficult and expensive. Land prices have been inflated for some time now, mainly due to the flats willingness to pay $5K+/acre for swamp. They then build a 500K home on it and prices and taxes go through the roof.

Also, mostly anyone who burns wood has been getting it from the same guy for years. Some play the numbers game, but when a buyer finds a seller who gives an honest cord and doesn't load the cord with popple and white birch, they usually become repeat customers.

240b is spot on when he wrote that it is a "tough place to make a go of it".

Ed     

[240b]

South of st jay you might do better. Sounds like your experience is pretty typical, people don't call back  either to busy w/  orders or just don't care. I live in Orange Co. VT there are so many firewood guys. the prices are all over the place. One guy is getting 165./cd delivered he has huge overhead. My nighbor gets 230/ cd in his yard. has low overhead and another job.(IT guy) 3miles down the road is another guy I think he is 185/ w/ a two cd min but his wood is almost all sugar maple. He stock piles  (couple hundred cd)this time of the year and is probably the only "real" full time guy.  Around here people will complain if the load isn't 99% sugar maple- go to montpelier and you can sell ash, white birch and soft maple to the flatlanders.  Right now log length wood is going to be 130-150/cd delivered.  It is really hard to find a landing to work on mainly because of insurance reasons and wood guys and usually in the way. I only did it once w/ a guy I knew really well. The best market is the hanover, nh area (dartmouth$$$) but those people are a huge pita True business is business, but the wood business is like NO other.  

[motohed]

I have to agree with 240b about the wood business . I sell about three or four hundred cords a year , yes I sometimes lose a customer by not getting back to him the same day , it happens . We work in a lot of areas and get out of the woods late , we also don't get cell service every where . I have found that if you miss the call , and it's a potentsial new customer , you have already lost the sale . My customers are very loyal , they know that they won't get shorted ,and the wood will be clean and dirt free . I still do all my wood with a splitter and conveyer only . It produces higher quality wood at a uniform size . The other thing is , EAB an insect problem in Ash firewood , that is quarentined  nation wide almost , i t has stopped all transpartation over state lines , and even county lines in some larger states . Do your home work , have a good delivery system . I personally would not start out with a processor . Welcome to the forum , I hope we all can help with questions in some way .
           
                      Best Regards Scott

[woodmills1]

moto, I am getting a 1610 EZ from multitek tomorrow or thursday.  The truck is headed to east greenwich in your state with one of their 12 foot giant splitters.  so if you see a tractor trailer with some multitek stuff on it tomorrow think of me.

[crankin]

Hey 240 b I used to have a house in groton  Went to school at Blue Mountain HS ,  I guess what i'm trying to figure out is what would be the best way not to go stir crazy and make some money doing something i would enjoy. if I ever get out of here I'll have a lump of money and need to do something . Not sure I want to buy rental houses or apts and listen deal with those headaches , sure can't make any money puttin it in the bank . I did see truck loads log length for a 100 a cord delivered then was thinking if you process the wood, have it dry, the going rate seemed to be about $ 185 - 225 a cord which stills seems better than some other option for investing . By the way will wood prices rise as oil prices go up? My thinking is we are one issue away from something serious in middle east which will double oil price or more in the blink of an eye. Thanks again Boys

[motohed]

moto, I am getting a 1610 EZ from multitek tomorrow or thursday.  The truck is headed to east greenwich in your state with one of their 12 foot giant splitters.  so if you see a tractor trailer with some multitek stuff on it tomorrow think of me.
[/quote

That cool it's about twenty minutes from me , are you going to pick it up there .

[mrnero]

Hey 240 b I used to have a house in groton  Went to school at Blue Mountain HS ,  I guess what i'm trying to figure out is what would be the best way not to go stir crazy and make some money doing something i would enjoy. if I ever get out of here I'll have a lump of money and need to do something . Not sure I want to buy rental houses or apts and listen deal with those headaches , sure can't make any money puttin it in the bank . I did see truck loads log length for a 100 a cord delivered then was thinking if you process the wood, have it dry, the going rate seemed to be about $ 185 - 225 a cord which stills seems better than some other option for investing . By the way will wood prices rise as oil prices go up? My thinking is we are one issue away from something serious in middle east which will double oil price or more in the blink of an eye. Thanks again Boys

Move to Boston or Metro area, plenty of firewood customers in this area. Firewood price are $250.00 and up. Why would oil prices effect firewood prices?? Processing/manufacturing firewood cost the same no matter where you are. Good Luck

[Jeff]

Why would oil prices effect firewood prices??

A little thing called supply and demand have a bit to do with the price. When fossil fuel prices are up, demand for alternative, more affordable fuels go up and so goes the price. Firewood for example.

Processing/manufacturing firewood cost the same no matter where you are.

:D  :D  :D

No they don't.

[mrnero]

Why would oil prices effect firewood prices??

A little thing called supply and demand have a bit to do with the price. When fossil fuel prices are up, demand for alternative, more affordable fuels go up and so goes the price. Firewood for example.

Processing/manufacturing firewood cost the same no matter where you are.

:D  :D  :D

No they don't.

The only reason why firewood prices are lower in different parts of the country, its because the dealer is selling his firewood below cost. :D :D :D
I thought supply and demand, means you just sell more firewood because the demand is greater.

[Jeff]

I'm sorry, but you really need to get out and live some life in the real world so you know how things work. That statement is so ridiculously uninformed and uneducated I feel the need to put some sort of force field around you to keep the membership from pummeling you.

[wi woodcutter]

I'm sorry, but you really need to get out and live some life in the real world so you know how things work. That statement is so ridiculously uninformed and uneducated I feel the need to put some sort of force field around you to keep the membership from pummeling you.

That is the funniest thing I have seen in weeks! :D :D :D

[chevytaHOE5674]

If fossil fuels are cheap, demand for wood goes down. People don't like the hassle of burning wood to save a few pennies.
Fossil fuel gets expensive, everybody wants wood to save $$$.


Production cost depends on labor in your area, cost of the wood, overhead, buying logs, or harvesting your own, yada yada yada.

[chucker]

?? must be "location, location or just the location " from braintree,ma?? lol

[240b]

I'm sorry, but you really need to get out and live some life in the real world so you know how things work. That statement is so ridiculously uninformed and uneducated I feel the need to put some sort of force field around you to keep the membership from pummeling you.

Now thats funny..

The other problem is the price of oil goes up and all the $$ ends up in the gas tank = no more $ for wood  Firewood guys here had people asking if they could buy half a pick up truck load or what ever they had cash for. Kind of hard to run a business selling a wheelburrow load at a time. (And below cost to boot)

[beenthere]

Jeff
The forcefield is working....obviously a strong one.  ;D

[mrnero]

I'm sorry, but you really need to get out and live some life in the real world so you know how things work. That statement is so ridiculously uninformed and uneducated I feel the need to put some sort of force field around you to keep the membership from pummeling you.

Jeff, you ain't preaching to me again, are U ??
May the force be with you

[mrnero]

?? must be "location, location or just the location " from braintree,ma?? lol

Whats wrong with braintree,MA location??

[mrnero]

I'm sorry, but you really need to get out and live some life in the real world so you know how things work. That statement is so ridiculously uninformed and uneducated I feel the need to put some sort of force field around you to keep the membership from pummeling you.

P.S. That was a funny comeback 8) 8)

[gunman63]

easy way to fix that wheelburrow load at a time thing, say NO , I dont even do pickup loads, 1 cord min.   save that manual labor for the  guys that need beer money

[Jeff]

Jeff, you ain't preaching to me again, are U ??

I'm trying to save you from Forestry Forum Hell. You can choose to be saved, or maybe even go to disneyland.

[Dan_Shade]

mrnero, you probably understand this, but here goes:

supply and demand, if the supply is low, and the demand high, then the cost will rise (think two bidders at an auction)

If the demand is not there for a good or service, then the price lowers (think an auctioneer lowering a price to get a bid).

cost of living can also vary greatly from one area to another, I'd guess that a cord of firewood where you live costs much more than one does in a retirement town in Florida (due to cost of living and demand).

your mileage may vary 

[mrnero]

Jeff, you ain't preaching to me again, are U ??

I'm trying to save you from Forestry Forum Hell. You can choose to be saved, or maybe even go to disneyland.

Thanks Jeff, I dont need to be saved. I get to be saved every Sunday when I go to church. Thanks for your concern, but I like it here instead of Disneyland.

[240b]

easy way to fix that wheelburrow load at a time thing, say NO , I dont even do pickup loads, 1 cord min.   save that manual labor for the  guys that need beer money

yep, thats what he tells'em 2cd min. another guy i know will hang up the phone on people if they even say anything about his prices.

[rebocardo]

> Also wondering if it pays to buy a large woodlot

Yes because you ensure your supply AND can rent it out for hunting etc. The thing to do is make it your main residence so you can claim any mortgage interest on your taxes. Then claim a business space if you claim the income on taxes.

I would start small with a $1000 splitter and a dump trailer or dump body on a F-350 diesel 7.3L 4x4 before investing in a processor then UP grade as you make your money. Before a processor I would buy a CASE or Bobcat for loading the trailer. I would have a really nice stove for myself to use the pine wood no one else really wants so I could sell the hardwoods for high dollar without impacting my profits.

Find a location with lots of acres 200+ (have a forester do a survey so you know how many cords of wood you are buying) and make sure it has an elevated flat place to store wood under cover. You do not want to store all your wood together either, not fun to lose all your profits in one fire.

I find nothing worse then loading and then unloading a trailer by hand because it takes too much time and is tedious after the 1st ten cords. You only have a small window to sell firewood because most people will not buy until the snow falls so you want to be able to deliver a cord an hour for 60 hours a week. So, a dump truck or trailer is a must, imho.

$50,000 / $150 a cord = a lot of cords =333 = five 60 hour weeks of delivery.

[Black_Bear]

> Also wondering if it pays to buy a large woodlot

Yes because you ensure your supply AND can rent it out for hunting etc.

I would have a really nice stove for myself to use the pine wood no one else really wants so I could sell the hardwoods for high dollar without impacting my profits.

Find a location with lots of acres 200+ (have a forester do a survey so you know how many cords of wood you are buying) and make sure it has an elevated flat place to store wood under cover. You do not want to store all your wood together either, not fun to lose all your profits in one fire.

Unlike the south and west, hunting leases are not part of the culture here in New England and are just about non-existent. Your land is considered open to the public unless you post it. The one hunting lease I know of in VT is $10/year.

Most homeowners in New England don't burn softwood. It builds up creosote too fast, which leads to chimney fires. I can see if you have 4 fires a year it could be OK, but when you burn wood 6 months/year it's not a good idea to burn softwood. Unless you like to clean your chimney and/or have the fire dept. on speed dial.

200 acres that has been high-graded (all that remains is pulp/firewood) will currently run you $300/acre to $1000/acre.

240b - nothing wrong with Orange County, plenty of deer!!   

[240b]

> Also wondering if it pays to buy a large woodlot

Yes because you ensure your supply AND can rent it out for hunting etc.

I would have a really nice stove for myself to use the pine wood no one else really wants so I could sell the hardwoods for high dollar without impacting my profits.

Find a location with lots of acres 200+ (have a forester do a survey so you know how many cords of wood you are buying) and make sure it has an elevated flat place to store wood under cover. You do not want to store all your wood together either, not fun to lose all your profits in one fire.

Unlike the south and west, hunting leases are not part of the culture here in New England and are just about non-existent. Your land is considered open to the public unless you post it. The one hunting lease I know of in VT is $10/year.

Most homeowners in New England don't burn softwood. It builds up creosote too fast, which leads to chimney fires. I can see if you have 4 fires a year it could be OK, but when you burn wood 6 months/year it's not a good idea to burn softwood. Unless you like to clean your chimney and/or have the fire dept. on speed dial.

200 acres that has been high-graded (all that remains is pulp/firewood) will currently run you $300/acre to $1000/acre.

240b - nothing wrong with Orange County, plenty of deer!!  

If I remember correctly, if you are enrolled in current use, you can't lease for recreational  use.  And the deer? Saw two all summer and I've yet to have any show up to eat buds (cutting maple next to a "deer yard" )  moose on the other hand I wish they would have an open season on those things and I no longer even slow down for the turkeys in the road.  Log trucker caught one in the grill last week.  Out west if its posted thats it.. people seem to respect that, here on the other hand, what is yours is everybody elses.  I posted my land this summer and the nieghbors got a hot about it. ( had troubles with atv's on my woods roads) it was amazing how many people were tromping around out there.(I really did not care about the foot traffic.) People in new england really feel entitled to use what isn't there's.
good luck finding two hundred acres of fire wood, anything that big already has somebody w/ a hand in it. It is not impossible but chances are slim.   

[gunman63]

want him to start  with a $1000 spilter, and then buy 200 acres of land, for firewood, the intrest on that 200 acres would more than by a processor, and i dont think u would have trouble buying firewood hauled in, in long lenghts, if u buy the land for stumpage u still need to findsome one to harvest it  and haul it to u. buy a lower cost processor, and get a spliting and piling and selling, but no matter how u do it, u will have a pile of money invested in it.

[woodmills1]

just so you know the 1610 got here this morning and man only one word  SWEET  pictures at eleven

[mrnero]

mrnero, you probably understand this, but here goes:

supply and demand, if the supply is low, and the demand high, then the cost will rise (think two bidders at an auction)

If the demand is not there for a good or service, then the price lowers (think an auctioneer lowering a price to get a bid).

cost of living can also vary greatly from one area to another, I'd guess that a cord of firewood where you live costs much more than one does in a retirement town in Florida (due to cost of living and demand).

your mileage may vary 

Here I go again, I just can't help myself. :D :D :D Let me see if I understand you correctly :P    If there is a local power outage and there becomes a demand for generators.  you are saying, that home depot should raise their prices on their generators because there is a shortage of generators in their store. And Lowes should do the same when snow shovels, rock salt and etc becomes in high demand during snow storms. Therefore, I guess you also means that the big food chain stores should also the same when the shelves become understocked too. I appears that some of you have different meanings of supply and demand confused with price goughing and the meaning of suggested retail price vs autionering. Maybe we should have national regulations and laws passed so everyone will know and "understand" what price gouging is. Oh well, here I go again back to disneyland !! Bye

BTW; Check out the (Craiglist) firewood prices in Fl retirment country. There getting more $$$ for their firewood than some of the northern states dealer are.  ;D ;D

[bull]

woodmills, welcome to the team... what do you think !!! congratulations...

I have been busy getting everything setup at my landing !! busy with snow and other jobs, have only run 4 cords thru mine, but it took a heck of a lot less time and allowed me to get other work done..... Hope to be back in the woods this weekend pulling out more storm damage, I'm shooting for about 20 cord before february !!!

[bull]

Mrnero there had to be something wrong with Braintree because they made *( New Braintree )* way back in the 1800's and it's still a nice quite town !! In Worcester County,Central Mass

[mrnero]

Mrnero there had to be something wrong with Braintree because they made *( New Braintree )* way back in the 1800's and it's still a nice quite town !! In Worcester County,Central Mass

I wouldn't know what happened back in the 1800's, This is only my occupation resident for 3 to 4 days a week.

[motohed]

mrnero, you probably understand this, but here goes:

supply and demand, if the supply is low, and the demand high, then the cost will rise (think two bidders at an auction)

If the demand is not there for a good or service, then the price lowers (think an auctioneer lowering a price to get a bid).

cost of living can also vary greatly from one area to another, I'd guess that a cord of firewood where you live costs much more than one does in a retirement town in Florida (due to cost of living and demand).

your mileage may vary 

Here I go again, I just can't help myself. :D :D :D Let me see if I understand you correctly :P    If there is a local power outage and there becomes a demand for generators.  you are saying, that home depot should raise their prices on their generators because there is a shortage of generators in their store. And Lowes should do the same when snow shovels, rock salt and etc becomes in high demand during snow storms. Therefore, I guess you also means that the big food chain stores should also the same when the shelves become understocked too. I appears that some of you have different meanings of supply and demand confused with price goughing and the meaning of suggested retail price vs autionering. Maybe we should have national regulations and laws passed so everyone will know and "understand" what price gouging is. Oh well, here I go again back to disneyland !! Bye

Firewood is a fuel source like oil . The price of oil fluctuates acording to available source and shipping , guess what so does firewood . I guess you need to learn something about stock market trading and fuel commodities , along with world trade . Some of your views , are off base . I agree with Jeff and some others . There is a huge difference in retail sales and fuel prices . firewood is a fuel commodity like home heating fuel ,gasoline ,diesel ,etc . Do you buy your gas at the highest price or the cheapest price . What about the quality of the gas or firewood , or correct quantity ,  a true cord versus face cord . Firewood has a direct coralation to oil prices and availability . My price for a seasoned cord of firewood is 220.00 , for a green cord is 185.00 . Delivery with in a 10 mile radius is free , outside of that it's 1.50 a mile both ways . I have built up many customers , they will leave the money some where , when they order from me . Why , because they know they will get what they pay for every time . There is no dirt and the wood is clean and seasoned . I am sure many others do the same as I do , I garranty , if people get shorted or dirty wood they will become a customer of mine or someone else like me . Price is in some what imetrical , in the firewood business , also it's a buyer beware product .There are some individuals in the firewood business , that don't serve the people as well as others  .  Same thing with gasoline and home heating fuel being substandard . We are lucky now that the oil industry is widely regulated to protect us . Firewood leaves something to be desired ,when it comes to being regulated ,other than the new regulation that will be imposed due to insect infestation quarentines .

[motohed]

Mrnero there had to be something wrong with Braintree because they made *( New Braintree )* way back in the 1800's and it's still a nice quite town !! In Worcester County,Central Mass

I wouldn't know what happened back in the 1800's, This is only my occupation resident for 3 to 4 days a week.

That explains every thing ! 8)

[motohed]

just so you know the 1610 got here this morning and man only one word  SWEET  pictures at eleven

Thats cool , maybe a day trip is in order .

[John Mc]

Unlike the south and west, hunting leases are not part of the culture here in New England and are just about non-existent. Your land is considered open to the public unless you post it. The one hunting lease I know of in VT is $10/year.

At that rate, they might as well not be charging anything. Vermont has some good laws protecting landowners from liability if someone gets hurt while using their land (to hunt, hike, snowmobile, etc). THat protection goes away if you charge for the use.

Most homeowners in New England don't burn softwood. It builds up creosote too fast, which leads to chimney fires. I can see if you have 4 fires a year it could be OK, but when you burn wood 6 months/year it's not a good idea to burn softwood. Unless you like to clean your chimney and/or have the fire dept. on speed dial.

It's a myth that softwood builds up creosote too fast. You just have to start with properly seasoned wood, and burn it correctly. Some softwoods will still catch and burn OK even if they are not completely seasoned. This leads some people to try to burn it while still somewhat green. This means a colder fire, which means more creosote. The other big creosote contributor is choking the fire for air - which again makes for a colder fire (usually done in an attempt to get the fire to burn longer -- since softwoods burn quicker than a similar volume of hardwoods, some people have a tendency to choke the air supply down even further).

Burn dry wood, and burn it hot, and you won't have a significant problem with creosote build-up burning softwoods. You will end up loading your stove a lot more frequently... most species of wood have the same number of BTUs per pound. The difference is that softwoods are a lot less dense than hardwoods, so it takes a lot more volume to get the same number of BTUs.

[mrnero]

mrnero, you probably understand this, but here goes:

supply and demand, if the supply is low, and the demand high, then the cost will rise (think two bidders at an auction)

If the demand is not there for a good or service, then the price lowers (think an auctioneer lowering a price to get a bid).

cost of living can also vary greatly from one area to another, I'd guess that a cord of firewood where you live costs much more than one does in a retirement town in Florida (due to cost of living and demand).

your mileage may vary 

Here I go again, I just can't help myself. :D :D :D Let me see if I understand you correctly :P    If there is a local power outage and there becomes a demand for generators.  you are saying, that home depot should raise their prices on their generators because there is a shortage of generators in their store. And Lowes should do the same when snow shovels, rock salt and etc becomes in high demand during snow storms. Therefore, I guess you also means that the big food chain stores should also the same when the shelves become understocked too. I appears that some of you have different meanings of supply and demand confused with price goughing and the meaning of suggested retail price vs autionering. Maybe we should have national regulations and laws passed so everyone will know and "understand" what price gouging is. Oh well, here I go again back to disneyland !! Bye

Firewood is a fuel source like oil . The price of oil fluctuates acording to available source and shipping , guess what so does firewood . I guess you need to learn something about stock market trading and fuel commodities , along with world trade . Some of your views , are off base . I agree with Jeff and some others . There is a huge difference in retail sales and fuel prices . firewood is a fuel commodity like home heating fuel ,gasoline ,diesel ,etc . Do you buy your gas at the highest price or the cheapest price . What about the quality of the gas or firewood , or correct quantity ,  a true cord versus face cord . Firewood has a direct coralation to oil prices and availability . My price for a seasoned cord of firewood is 220.00 , for a green cord is 185.00 . Delivery with in a 10 mile radius is free , outside of that it's 1.50 a mile both ways . I have built up many customers , they will leave the money some where , when they order from me . Why , because they know they will get what they pay for every time . There is no dirt and the wood is clean and seasoned . I am sure many others do the same as I do , I garranty , if people get shorted or dirty wood they will become a customer of mine or someone else like me . Price is in some what imetrical , in the firewood business , also it's a buyer beware product .There are some individuals in the firewood business , that don't serve the people as well as others  .  Same thing with gasoline and home heating fuel being substandard . We are lucky now that the oil industry is widely regulated to protect us . Firewood leaves something to be desired ,when it comes to being regulated ,other than the new regulation that will be imposed due to insect infestation quarentines .

Good speech on supply and demand. In that case, Since the rush season and "demand" for firewood is about over, then you should be lowing your firewood prices. Remember, supply and demand works both ways. $185 per cord !!   Last time I sold firewood for that price, I was in middleschool. Sound from reading your post, You feel that you are the best. Thats good positive thinking.

PS. I use hyway diesel, Does that count as high priced ??

[mrnero]

Mrnero there had to be something wrong with Braintree because they made *( New Braintree )* way back in the 1800's and it's still a nice quite town !! In Worcester County,Central Mass

I wouldn't know what happened back in the 1800's, This is only my occupation resident for 3 to 4 days a week.

That explains every thing ! 8)

No, I think its your "senior" set ways that explains everything.

[chevytaHOE5674]

If oil/propane/natural gas is very expensive then the demand for firewood increases (because more people want to burn it as it is cheaper than fossil fuels), but at the same time it is also less efficient. So if oil/propane/natural gas is cheap many skip the wood as its less hassle, and more efficient to burn oil.   

At the same time cost of production varies with fossil fuels as well. Diesel goes up (along with heating oil/propane.natural gas), then cost to produce the firewood is more expensive, therefor final price goes up. 

[woodmills1]

moto come on up

Bull  I love it

Mnero do you have a clue what this site provides to us, we contribute to it and only use it when we need info

it seems like you need a friend


so.................... :P Mnero I will be your friend   I am somewhat intelligent and very much sympathetic to public servants, especially those who have more dangerous jobs than I did.


So  Ifin ya wants I am offering to bees ya friend,  cause ya needs one here.

[red oaks lumber]

mrnero,
i'm sitting here laughing my mule off!! and by the way, i won't jump all over you this time.

[gunman63]

I really dont think "rush season"  is over, but there is less seasoned wood now, someguys are out so less supply makes price go up, and oil hit $80 a barrel today, so firewood price goes up, YAHOO.........

[bull]

The avaiabilty of seasoned wood is scarce after the rush season and the price will definetly not go down.... someone needing seasoned wood after January 1 will pay $300.00 a cord or more or they won't be getting any wood !!!   Thats supply and demand and de-man is going to get his money!!!!

been selling firewood since I was 12 YOA !!!  Won't sell any on the CHEAP !!!!

[motohed]

The avaiabilty of seasoned wood is scarce after the rush season and the price will definetly not go down.... someone needing seasoned wood after January 1 will pay $300.00 a cord or more or they won't be getting any wood !!!   Thats supply and demand and de-man is going to get his money!!!!

been selling firewood since I was 12 YOA !!!  Won't sell any on the CHEAP !!!!

X2 My prices are set , I don't really raise or lower them . I also have plenty of seasoned wood .  8)

[motohed]

Mrnero there had to be something wrong with Braintree because they made *( New Braintree )* way back in the 1800's and it's still a nice quite town !! In Worcester County,Central Mass

I wouldn't know what happened back in the 1800's, This is only my occupation resident for 3 to 4 days a week.

That explains every thing ! 8)

No, I think its your "senior" set ways that explains everything.

That was really funny , you think I am a senior only in body maybe ! My wife is strill trying to get me to grow up and stop playing with toys . Your alright after all , mrnero .  8)

[motohed]

mrnero, you probably understand this, but here goes:

supply and demand, if the supply is low, and the demand high, then the cost will rise (think two bidders at an auction)

If the demand is not there for a good or service, then the price lowers (think an auctioneer lowering a price to get a bid).

cost of living can also vary greatly from one area to another, I'd guess that a cord of firewood where you live costs much more than one does in a retirement town in Florida (due to cost of living and demand).

your mileage may vary 

Here I go again, I just can't help myself. :D :D :D Let me see if I understand you correctly :P    If there is a local power outage and there becomes a demand for generators.  you are saying, that home depot should raise their prices on their generators because there is a shortage of generators in their store. And Lowes should do the same when snow shovels, rock salt and etc becomes in high demand during snow storms. Therefore, I guess you also means that the big food chain stores should also the same when the shelves become understocked too. I appears that some of you have different meanings of supply and demand confused with price goughing and the meaning of suggested retail price vs autionering. Maybe we should have national regulations and laws passed so everyone will know and "understand" what price gouging is. Oh well, here I go again back to disneyland !! Bye

Firewood is a fuel source like oil . The price of oil fluctuates acording to available source and shipping , guess what so does firewood . I guess you need to learn something about stock market trading and fuel commodities , along with world trade . Some of your views , are off base . I agree with Jeff and some others . There is a huge difference in retail sales and fuel prices . firewood is a fuel commodity like home heating fuel ,gasoline ,diesel ,etc . Do you buy your gas at the highest price or the cheapest price . What about the quality of the gas or firewood , or correct quantity ,  a true cord versus face cord . Firewood has a direct coralation to oil prices and availability . My price for a seasoned cord of firewood is 220.00 , for a green cord is 185.00 . Delivery with in a 10 mile radius is free , outside of that it's 1.50 a mile both ways . I have built up many customers , they will leave the money some where , when they order from me . Why , because they know they will get what they pay for every time . There is no dirt and the wood is clean and seasoned . I am sure many others do the same as I do , I garranty , if people get shorted or dirty wood they will become a customer of mine or someone else like me . Price is in some what imetrical , in the firewood business , also it's a buyer beware product .There are some individuals in the firewood business , that don't serve the people as well as others  .  Same thing with gasoline and home heating fuel being substandard . We are lucky now that the oil industry is widely regulated to protect us . Firewood leaves something to be desired ,when it comes to being regulated ,other than the new regulation that will be imposed due to insect infestation quarentines .

Good speech on supply and demand. In that case, Since the rush season and "demand" for firewood is about over, then you should be lowing your firewood prices. Remember, supply and demand works both ways. $185 per cord !!   Last time I sold firewood for that price, I was in middleschool. Sound from reading your post, You feel that you are the best. Thats good positive thinking.

PS. I use hyway diesel, Does that count as high priced ??

I with you on the diesel , in RI onroad and off road are the same price , just different tax . The gas prices tend to run a little higher than MA . As for being the best ,not really just doing it the best I know how . I have got almost fourty years in the firewood business . I also have own a campground for twenty years at the same time , along with an excavation business . It's not about being the best , it's about being driven to suceed , and being proud of your acomplishments .

                                                    Best Regards Scott

[MDLogging]

One company that got started here in Jacksonville started a dump facility for arborists and tree companies in the surrounding towns.  They were getting $30 a ton when the County dump was charging $35.  Then they would split and sell the wood all over the State to homeowners and bar-b-cue houses alike.

They finally had to move because the County, unable to find them doing anything wrong, condemned their incinerator.  They were using it to burn the trash and tops and selling the ash.  Now they are a County south and still doing fine, as far as I've heard.
[/quote] 
Ive never heard of burning the brush and selling the ash, but it sounds like a good idea.  What do people use the ash for, gardening?  Is he able to load and unload the incinerator with a loader or is it alot of shovel work?  Sounds alot better and cheaper than grinding.

[Black_Bear]

It's a myth that softwood builds up creosote too fast. You just have to start with properly seasoned wood, and burn it correctly. Some softwoods will still catch and burn OK even if they are not completely seasoned. This leads some people to try to burn it while still somewhat green. This means a colder fire, which means more creosote. The other big creosote contributor is choking the fire for air - which again makes for a colder fire (usually done in an attempt to get the fire to burn longer -- since softwoods burn quicker than a similar volume of hardwoods, some people have a tendency to choke the air supply down even further).

Burn dry wood, and burn it hot, and you won't have a significant problem with creosote build-up burning softwoods. You will end up loading your stove a lot more frequently... most species of wood have the same number of BTUs per pound. The difference is that softwoods are a lot less dense than hardwoods, so it takes a lot more volume to get the same number of BTUs.

Good point John, you explained it better than I did. I probably should have wrote that consistently using unseasoned softwood can lead to creosote build up. Your problem B (choking fire for air so it doesn't burn so fast) is essentially what I was getting at. Add in some snow and ice and you have a perfect slow cooker/smoker.   

[mrnero]

 Motohed, If you dont claim to be the best, you are d*m close to it. Though, I started young on the right track, but have a still have a long way to go. Time will only tell. Wishing you many more years of sucess. Good luck.

[mrnero]

moto come on up



Mnero do you have a clue what

it seems like you need a friend


so.................... :P Mnero I will be your friend

Sorry,  but no thanks

[SwampDonkey]

What do people use the ash for, gardening?

There is a mill or heating plant selling ash for farm fields in southern NB. I can't recall which it is. It's not posted on CBC news, which reported it a year ago. So can't get the details. Up here is a potato belt in NW New Brunswick, similar to northern Maine and you can't use wood ash on potato crops. Causes scab which is only an appearance thing and doesn't really harm the potato. But people want everything perfect in the grocery store. ;)

[MDLogging]

Thanks for the info.  I checked into it a little more and saw a few pics of the burners.  Looks like it works pretty good.  Says the large burner will go through up to 10 tons an hour.  I think the major cost is the actual price of the incinerator and what little diesal it uses.  I wonder how much the ash is selling for?

[SwampDonkey]

As far as I recall the heat source for this operation was wood itself, the ash was the waste product. Then they began selling it.

[MDLogging]

The heat source was the wood, but it has a diesal engine with a blower that circulated air to the fire.  This would burn the fire hotter and cleaner.  It looks like it puts off very little smoke if any.

[MDLogging]

The website is www.airburner.com if interested

[SwampDonkey]

We got our wires crossed.  :D I was talking about the operation back here. ;) It was ash from boilers used here. If it was the heating plant boiler in the capitol, it heats two Universities and a regional hospital. Has been for 25 years at least now. Hog fuel is trucked from one of Jim Irving's sawmills in Chipman. It was either that or ashes direct from one of Irvings operations to the farmers.

[motohed]

Motohed, If you dont claim to be the best, you are d*m close to it. Though, I started young on the right track, but have a still have a long way to go. Time will only tell. Wishing you many more years of sucess. Good luck.

Hi mrnero

I am sure you will do fine ,  the most important thing you can do is being honest and doing what you say you will . Reputation is the key .