Useful sawmill mods

[Bandmill Bandit]

Yes Mtn Man I can understand that being an issue BUT my son says the code adjustments needed to correct it are quite simple and he said he would be surprised if those are NOT part of the code in the Accuset 2 system already. We have NOT hacked it yet but trust me IF it needs to be done it will be done.

I am pretty sure WM can issue a "patch" very easily and that would be the prefered method. BUT IF I get the run around WHEN I get there it WILL get hacked and fixed.

"We" do know enough of the Simple set system already to know that there is a significant amount of UNUSED capability that "could" allow for a few more functions. Like knowing where the deck is and others.   

My sons approach to any thing computer is;

"Dont tell me it cant be done and dont tell me it is difficult. Give me a day or 2 and I will fix or modify to make it do what needs to be done!"

[4x4American]

I like your sons attitude, I feel similarly.  You would think that the company who designed the system would be able to figure it out.  I don't know why the simple set can't know where the deck is.  There are other mills out there with more basic computers and they know where the deck is!  How hard could that be?  It sure would save alot of head scratching cutting softwood for dimensional lumber.  I think that they do it that way on grade lumber because the inside of the log don't make much grade whereas the outside of the log is the good lumber, and why take a shim in the good wood when you can do it in the cruddier wood?...eh

[Dave Shepard]

Simple set works by counting teeth on a gear, of done similar arrangement, and therefore doesn't know where the bed begins and ends. Accuset2 use a 36" linear transducer, so it knows exactly where it is. The transducer alone is probably a $4-500 part. You get what you pay for.

[Bandmill Bandit]

Like I said Dave the simple set has much more functional capability then is being utilized.

I am pretty sure it is restricted because it would reduce Accuset 2 sales numbers significantly.

transducers type components are ot that  are not that expensive whne you buy from source.

Mtn Man; Yes there is a way to adjust the for higher speed and it already used in the simple set system when you set the calibration number in the program mode. On the simple set we just need to rewrite the parameters of those set points to reflect the higher speeds. If I cant get the info from wood mizer we will hack it and do it our selves if we need to.

   

[Rougespear]

Bandmill: do you have a source for cheap(er) transducers?  FWIW: I checked with WM Salmon Arm, and the 36" transducer they use is a little over $1K CDN.  My thoughts in general, and that of an electric engineer friend of mine, is that instead of a transducer, a rotary encoder can be easily used to measure absolute distance to the saw deck, and relative distance to the last cut.  A future project for my mill most definitely, likely do with a Click PLC (maybe this winter)!

[Bandmill Bandit]

we should talk for sure Roughspear. I have to check with my son. He gets alot of the type of stuff from a supplier in Vancouver and is pretty confident that he can get the simple set system to utilize it.

The wood mizer transducer is nothing special and is very common in the oil patch and heavy equiment applications. Wood mizers prices reflect the orange paint sorta like JD.

Its like my laser. Every thing for mounting from WM cause the price was ok for that. The electronics and laser my son sourced and I got a high power green laser installed for about 500 CDN instead of 2100 CDN

[Dave Shepard]

My comment was directed at 4x4. Many things have more capacity than is being used, but there are always reasons why they don't use them. A 5.9 Cummins in a pickup can be modified to make 1,500 HP, for a few seconds anyway, but Dodge chooses to not do that. ;)

[Kbeitz]

You should see the price of transducers come down.
There is a new type coming out on the market that has balls inside
a flexable rod. iTS a very good system.

[Ga Mtn Man]

Bandmill Bandit-- I am fully aware of all of the programming/setting options that are available to the user on the stock SS...hacking is a different matter entirely and I wish I had the knowledge to give it a go.

Are you planning on running something other than the AK22 pulley?

[barbender]

I have the original "Setworks" on my 97 Super, it uses a rotary encoder. I'm having problems with mine, either the encoder is shot or the cable or connections are bad, as it is not sending signal to the computer. As far as I understand, WM no longer supports this version. I had just gotten it set accurately too- when I first got it, it would throw out the occasional booger to where you couldn't trust it. I thought an unrelated mechanical problem was causing the encoder to jump off the lift chain a tooth, but I finally got playing with the gains in the Setworks and had it almost right on the money (I think the electronics just needed adjusted, the encoder wasn't the problem initially).  Had it about dialed in, and then the signal problem :  I haven't touched my mill in about 3 months (wrong, I know :(), I'll get to assess the situation more in a bit. I hope I can fix it or find a new encoder, because it sure speeds production (for me mostly it is the speed that the setworks can land right on the mark with just a touch, versus me watching the scale and trying to land on, and then missing the mark. The super heads move so fast that it is hard to make small adjustments- they jump!) I don't get to run my mill enough to justify the upgrade to the accuset II.

[Bandmill Bandit]

Bandmill Bandit-- I am fully aware of all of the programming/setting options that are available to the user on the stock SS...hacking is a different matter entirely and I wish I had the knowledge to give it a go.

Are you planning on running something other than the AK22 pulley?

I will start with the AK22 But my son is going to down load the existing code to determine what is possible with the system. If I can go to and AK28 and still be in the accuracy range I think I will be happy.

The physics of head movement and momentum from the higher speed and torque thereof is what needs to be compensated for.

[JB Griffin]

Has anyone done a chain turner mod to their 40. Running the BP Dominator at work has really got me hating my claw turner now.

[killamplanes]

Mine is stock tk b20 chain turner. But over the years have learned to love it. Pretty simple design.  And mainly local parts store stuff. Just a suggestion

[JB Griffin]

Turning a log with the claw turner is a pain in the rump, slow and slow. I know I can build one chain turner that is just need a hyd. motor,  another valve or two and some chain and sprockets.

[4x4American]

Simple set works by counting teeth on a gear, of done similar arrangement, and therefore doesn't know where the bed begins and ends. Accuset2 use a 36" linear transducer, so it knows exactly where it is. The transducer alone is probably a $4-500 part. You get what you pay for.

Theres mills out there that every time you turn the computer on (wired seperatly from ignition) you bring the head to 1" and press 'set home'.

Like BB said there's a way to do anything.  We can put a man on the moon and go inside a human brain and fix it, I think we can find a way to set home.  But like BB said that would sacrifice accuset ii sales and it always comes down to $

[Dave Shepard]

You can do something similar with simple set. If you are cutting 2" lumber with an eighth inch kerf, you can set the head at 10.5 and then set the setworks for 2" lumber and it will saw to the bed. This is how it was done before setworks. I think Magician has a cheat sheet for this, and brucer and some others also use this method due to sawing the same dimensions regularly.

[Dave Shepard]

One thing to watch for adding a chain turner to a 40 is that the backstops aren't as high as the vertical stops on the 50 and 70.

[Rougespear]

Simple set works by counting teeth on a gear, of done similar arrangement, and therefore doesn't know where the bed begins and ends. Accuset2 use a 36" linear transducer, so it knows exactly where it is. The transducer alone is probably a $4-500 part. You get what you pay for.

Theres mills out there that every time you turn the computer on (wired seperatly from ignition) you bring the head to 1" and press 'set home'.

Like BB said there's a way to do anything.  We can put a man on the moon and go inside a human brain and fix it, I think we can find a way to set home.  But like BB said that would sacrifice accuset ii sales and it always comes down to $

I would think SS could understand where the bed is so long as it was calibrated at setup.  For instance, a line of code [set_home] could specify that when the sawhead is manually moved to 12" above the deck and the "home" button is pressed, the encoded sets its v-memory count to x*y=z, where x=resolution of the encoder, y=x*number of revolutions to gain 1" of vertical travel*12, and z=absolute height above the saw deck.

In all honesty though, I have the magnetic scales from Cook's, and they are calibrated to give you the proper thickness board at the end of the cut sequence.  They have 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 8/4, 1" and 2" scales.  They are pretty accurate, so the only thing a SS-like system does is take the variability of "landing" on the right number out of the equation (and I can understand how that would speed up cutting).  To me, any system that does not know the height of the blade above the deck is not worth it because I still have to calculate my cut start point in the cant.  The time it takes to do that (likely seconds) is no more than the time it takes for my to manually move my sawhead height.

Just FWIW...

[Magicman]

I think Magician has a cheat sheet for this,

Correct, I have the much older "Setworks" that has no idea where it is.  It's job is to accurately drop the head at the desired increments.  My job is to start at a point where the "dog board" will be the correct dimension.   We work very well together and I seldom have to refer to my "cheat sheet".   ;D

[WDH]

With my Simple Set, I use the magnetic scale to set the head to cut an even # of boards to the bed.  Quick and simple. 

[WV Sawmiller]

With my Simple Set, I use the magnetic scale to set the head to cut an even # of boards to the bed.  Quick and simple. 

  I use my SS with the regular/permanently mounted scale along with a cheat sheet to do the same thing. Works great.

[Bandmill Bandit]

SS is mostly useless without using the mounted scale along with SS. The mounted scale "knows" where the bed is and you have to set up you cuts to match the scale of choice on that ruler. once you have that done the SS is set so you can forget and just saw.

When I set up a log my first cut will be on a 1/4 mark when sawing to quarter scale as will all the rest of them. That way I don't need the cheat sheet. 

[4x4American]

It must take awhile to get on the mark.  My the head on my super dont move too fast, but it's difficult to get it to land right where I want it to.  I wish that it had a "slow" head up/down button.  And same for reverse, sometimes dragging back some things I would like it to go slower, and bumping the back switch constantly can't be good for it.

[Kbeitz]

It must take awhile to get on the mark.  My the head on my super dont move too fast, but it's difficult to get it to land right where I want it to.  I wish that it had a "slow" head up/down button.  And same for reverse, sometimes dragging back some things I would like it to go slower, and bumping the back switch constantly can't be good for it.

If it's electric you could use a large resister.
If it's hydraulic you could use a flow control valve to lower your speed.

[Bandmill Bandit]

It must take awhile to get on the mark.  My the head on my super dont move too fast, but it's difficult to get it to land right where I want it to.  I wish that it had a "slow" head up/down button.  And same for reverse, sometimes dragging back some things I would like it to go slower, and bumping the back switch constantly can't be good for it.

Something not working right 4X4. mine lands on the mark with SS operating and it is no problem getting it to land where i want it in manual mode too.