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Swingblade Input/Advice

Started by LexusLuther, January 08, 2020, 08:19:18 PM

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LexusLuther

New member here!  I have been reading the forum for the past several months because I want to get my own mill.  I am impressed with the wealth of knowledge on Forestry Forum and say thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

I want to mill as a hobby (to use the wood in woodworking projects) and do not want to put more than $12,000 to $15,000 in to a mill. I live on hilly terrain and we have a lot of big trees (I have a stack of logs ready and several are 36-40").  I have access to a tractor (relative's) but do not want to have to rely on friends and family for my hobby-- I want to be able to saw solo.  As a result, I am leaning toward a swingblade so I can set up on the logs.  I know Lucas has a lot of followers, but I do not like the idea of swinging the motor around to double cut.  I have been trying to decide between the Junior Peterson and the 6-13 Turbosaw.  The saws are about the same money, but the Turbosaw will cost a little more with the addition of the slab attachment.  JP is more limiting on log diameter (36").  Also, trying to figure out how much extension you can add to a Turbosaw 6-13-- is 14' plus one 3 foot extension- 17 foot total -- the max?

Any advice is appreciated-- can I realistically set these saws up by myself on top of a big log in the hilly woods?

Excited to get a mill!  

trimguy


A-z farmer

Welcome to the forestry forum Lexusluther 
If you could go look at the different mills you are thinking about getting in operation it might make you decision easier.If you fill out your location in your profile there might be members close by you to see them in action.Good luck in your sawdust journey.
Zeke

TKehl

"I wish I had less capacity."
                     -No One Ever

Based on your log size, it sounds like the JP is out.  No matter what size you get, you will try to squeeze in just a bit more.  LOL.  (I have a Lucas 6-13)

The Turbosaw is nice in that you can set up on one side of a log instead of building the frame around (and under) the log, but Lucas, Peterson, and Turbosaw all make quality products.  And frankly spinning the head for a double cut isn't that bad.  However, doing double cuts are still a PITA on any swing mill as you need to square up the lot into a cant first unless they are real small.  ;)  IE, if you plan on a lot of double cutting, just get a bandmill and a big chainsaw to quarter your big logs.   ;D


In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

dgdrls

Quote from: LexusLuther on January 08, 2020, 08:19:18 PM
New member here!  I have been reading the forum for the past several months because I want to get my own mill.  I am impressed with the wealth of knowledge on Forestry Forum and say thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

I want to mill as a hobby (to use the wood in woodworking projects) and do not want to put more than $12,000 to $15,000 in to a mill. I live on hilly terrain and we have a lot of big trees (I have a stack of logs ready and several are 36-40").  I have access to a tractor (relative's) but do not want to have to rely on friends and family for my hobby-- I want to be able to saw solo.  As a result, I am leaning toward a swingblade so I can set up on the logs.  I know Lucas has a lot of followers, but I do not like the idea of swinging the motor around to double cut.  I have been trying to decide between the Junior Peterson and the 6-13 Turbosaw.  The saws are about the same money, but the Turbosaw will cost a little more with the addition of the slab attachment.  JP is more limiting on log diameter (36").  Also, trying to figure out how much extension you can add to a Turbosaw 6-13-- is 14' plus one 3 foot extension- 17 foot total -- the max?

Any advice is appreciated-- can I realistically set these saws up by myself on top of a big log in the hilly woods?

Excited to get a mill!  
Welcome  LexusLuther,

 I believe @Ianab can speak to the Peterson JP mill,  and  @TKehl  makes good points.     I have a Lucas and am happy with it.
I know what it can do and I saw within those parameters, all mills have limits of some kind.
Yes, you can saw on a side slope, but you still have to get the mill pretty level left and right, you have a bit more flexibility fore and aft.

I would not shy away from a second hand units, 

best

D




LexusLuther

My other thought was to buy a EZ Boardwalk 40.  It would cost less, but then I have the issue of how to get the big logs to/on the mill.

I am in NW Ark.  I will try and figure out how to update my profile information.

Thank you.

TKehl

With your budget, a new EZ Boardwalk, used tractor and fetching arch are in the budget.  That will get to the mill.  As for on the mill, you have hills.   ;)  Build the mill so your log deck is uphill.  Put logs near the deck, then roll them across the deck (which should be level-ish).   ;D  Being able to pick a log up is nice, but for a small operator it is not necessary to get started.  
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Jcald327

I just purchased my lucas 827 a week or so ago, been having a blast since.  My take on mine (although I had to do some adjusting recently given I was only running 3200 at full throttle, and an wondering about my governor a bit after bumping it to 3700rpm) is that they really are happiest making 4-5 inch cuts, if you want to make a  12 (618)17  (82X) or 20 inch (1030) board then your looking at 3 - 4 passes which is rather slow.  I've accepted the limitations of the swing blade but bought it for the same reason, big logs, and no desire to offload 2-300 pound slabs by myself.  

I've got a couple of options floating around in my head. Cutting back/modifying to bottom of the frame to allow for 1-2 inch thick boards to be double cut from the other side of blade on a pull stroke.  Adding a second carriage to hold the slabber attachment and make a dedicated slabber run off another smaller briggs/honda/kohler/predator etc
 Changing the uprights on my 66 inch alaska mill to allow me to use it as a dedicated slabber (basically building a box frame to replace the parts that clamp on the blade, and adding my spare wheels) using my 395xp (and 3/8 chain instead of 404. And finally, stacking a homemade riser block on my shop upright bandsaw and hanging it from a homemade carriage with a 7-14hp motor and using the swing to edge down 6-8 inches, and resawing the exposed 'beam' in the 8-20inch range. 

Theres also d and l swingblade mills, claiming some crazy 180 degree stuff that can double cut from either side, and edge on either side, but results and reviews are limited, and the only review I've heard from someone on here is the guy that designed them had great ideas but is a better salesman than a business owner. (Found one 50 miles away, not sure where your at but western kentucky sawmill equipment has one, but were asking more than I think a new one sells for for low hour but unknown age unit)

I absolutely cannot say enough good things about my interaction with baileys, even after buying a used mill vs a new one.  Well I guess I can complain that their parts are expensive, but other than that great stuff.  I've talked to an Alan, a Doug? And a Mike? in the last week and all have been super helpful, gave me a list of things to check before I bought, and have helped with setup and info since, all of them sound like they've actually put blade to log and done the thing rather than just being salesmen.
Lucas 8-27 w/ slabber
Husqvarna 395xp 32, 42 inch
Rancher 455 24 inch
Stihl 271 20 inch
Grandberg 66 alaska mill
Lowrider cnc 4x8 capacity
Logrite mega 78 and 60

LexusLuther

I appreciate your thoughts.  I can live with making multiple passes because I do not need to be fast.  I was looking at a used Lucas on Craigslist, but did not pull the trigger fast enough.  I had decided that I needed to get at least an 8" Lucas because it is harder to double cut.  I question if I should go 8" on Turbo, but do not want to overspend on my crazy hobby.  

Is the Lucas "as portable" as you thought?  D&L looks interesting, but less portable.  I would love to hear from a 6-13 or 8-13 manual Turbosaw owner on portability.  

Jcald327

As many will attest spinning the carriage isn't too bad either with a helper or some kind of winch either mounted above it in your semi permanent location or say one of the hitch mounted ones where you could just leave you truck backed up to 1 end or the other of mill.  

It is every bit as portable as they say, with the only drawbacks being some of the pieces being awkwardly shaped and the beams being long. We picked mine up on a 13 foot utility trailer with a small like 25 inch tall H shaped upright mounted on the front rails, so the remaining 5 feet or so hung over the front of trailer, and only 2 -3 feet were about 18 inches at the lowest above my tailgate.  A ladder rack would allow trailerless transport, and your just lifting 120 pound beams (weight from their shipping breakdown, they dont feel that heavy) up onto the rack.
We're building a purpose built trailer from an old boat trailer to allow the end frames to stay assembled and then it's as simple as setting and squaring them up, driving in 2 stakes for the support rods, dropping on the rails, and wheeling in the carriage.  Then just keep some lightweight poplar type beams for bunks and your good to go.

 
Lucas 8-27 w/ slabber
Husqvarna 395xp 32, 42 inch
Rancher 455 24 inch
Stihl 271 20 inch
Grandberg 66 alaska mill
Lowrider cnc 4x8 capacity
Logrite mega 78 and 60

LexusLuther


Dakota

I have a Lucas 6-18, and I love it. I don't know how many times over the years that I have wished I had gotten the 8" model, but it's a lot.  If you go with Lucas, and can afford it, go with the 8" or 10" model.
Dave Rinker

Nebraska

Just my FWIW two cents I would buy the EZ Boardwalk out right(biased owner's opinion I have zero compaints)   and put the rest of your budget down on a 40 hp front wheel assist tractor or a good sized skid steer, esp if you live in the country. Milling the wood is the easy part, it's the material handling, drying storage and waste wood disposal that is a challenge. Especially when this is a therapeutic hobby.  It's very easy to get ahead of yourself. No argument against a swing blade and it's versatility, just thinking about the work handling the logs and  and the sawn lumber and waste and the budget you stated.

LexusLuther

It makes a lot of sense to buy the EZ Boardwalk and use the left over budget for handling equipment, but for some reason I keep being pulled toward the swingers.  I guess it is a good sign that I have not had much luck finding used.  I was too slow when I did locate a used Lucas.  I learned the hard way that you better decide fast on a good used mill. 

Ianab

You want a slightly different mindset with a swing mill, because of it's portability. It's lighter and easier to move than most logs. So it's often easier to haul the mill into the bush and set up a temporary worksite where the trees are, especially in hilly country. Log weighs 8,000 lb, mill weights ~500 lb, and come apart in a few minutes. Yes you might need a winch, and you might need to get inventive with some cribbing to support the log and mill on uneven ground, and yes it's hard work. ;)

But that was one of the original ideas of the first swing mills, that a farmer or Island villager could haul the mill into the forest / field / swamp and saw up large logs that they had no practical way of moving. Then once the log is broken down into boards, then those can be hauled out with any sort of machinery, even a quad bike / trailer. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

ButchC

I know little about the Turbosaw but have owned a JP for going on 3 years after considering a Lucas. The ability to double saw without turning the carriage around is not a small consideration on a 6" mill, it is huge. Not only in effort but in board feet at the end of the day as you will be performing much more of it with a 6 than with a 10 or an 8.  I have stretched the JP log capacity a time or two by cribbing the tracks. Personally I would not upsize my sawmill choice  for a singular log or two ? Cut the odd large log down to size with a chainsaw if need be. You waste some wood or spend 10,000 more dollars to saw it all up???, that choice was easy for me,LOL. Not sure what the one poster was saying about the need for a square can't before you double cut?  There is no need for that with my mill.  I think you would be very happy with a JP. Mine leaves little to wish for, around the farm it does everything I need.
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

jeepcj779

If you can get over having to turn the carriage to double cut when you need wider boards, you might want to look at the Lucas 7-23. You can saw dimensional lumber up to 7 7/8 without turning. How often do you need larger than that? If you do, you can cut almost 16" boards by turning the carriage. The 7-23 is $3K less than the 8-30 (that $3K only buys an extra 5/8"). For just over $15K ($12,999+$1199+$999), you can get a 7-23, the 60" slabbing attachment, and the planing disk for finishing slabs. I said it in another post, and I'll say it again: that is a lot of bang for the buck.

LexusLuther

Quote from: ButchC on January 12, 2020, 02:58:22 PM
I know little about the Turbosaw but have owned a JP for going on 3 years after considering a Lucas. The ability to double saw without turning the carriage around is not a small consideration on a 6" mill, it is huge. Not only in effort but in board feet at the end of the day as you will be performing much more of it with a 6 than with a 10 or an 8.  I have stretched the JP log capacity a time or two by cribbing the tracks. Personally I would not upsize my sawmill choice  for a singular log or two ? Cut the odd large log down to size with a chainsaw if need be. You waste some wood or spend 10,000 more dollars to saw it all up???, that choice was easy for me,LOL. Not sure what the one poster was saying about the need for a square can't before you double cut?  There is no need for that with my mill.  I think you would be very happy with a JP. Mine leaves little to wish for, around the farm it does everything I need.
Not having to turn for a double cut if really what had me thinking the JP would work for me better than the Lucas 6".  A agree paying for the 8" or 10" Peterson or Lucas for a few big logs is not worth it for me.  The Turbo 6-13 is about the same as the  JP, but the slab attachment is a fair amount more on the Turbo.  Thank you for your input.

LexusLuther

Quote from: jeepcj779 on January 12, 2020, 05:03:44 PM
If you can get over having to turn the carriage to double cut when you need wider boards, you might want to look at the Lucas 7-23. You can saw dimensional lumber up to 7 7/8 without turning. How often do you need larger than that? If you do, you can cut almost 16" boards by turning the carriage. The 7-23 is $3K less than the 8-30 (that $3K only buys an extra 5/8"). For just over $15K ($12,999+$1199+$999), you can get a 7-23, the 60" slabbing attachment, and the planing disk for finishing slabs. I said it in another post, and I'll say it again: that is a lot of bang for the buck.
I was not aware of the Lucas 7-23.  I will check that out.  My jointer is 8", so 7 7/8 would be good for me.
Thank you

timbour

I've had a Lucas 825 since 2004 and cut flooring, beams and stair treads for a home I built in 2007. It is an awesome mill and cuts dimensional lumber and quarter saws with precision.  I did purchase a Woodmizer LT 40 Wide last year and like it also as I'm now 70 and the hydraulics are wonderful.  They both have their advantages but I'm glad I started with a swinger and still enjoy using it in certain applications.  Best of luck in your decision making.

longtime lurker

Here's how ya double cut with a Lucas.... because I've seen a few guys make posts lately that are keen to lock onto it with a couple men and lift it around, or drill holes in the frame and have a winch over the top with presumably a portable tree to hang the winch from. And all that slow hard work is unnecessary ;D ;D ;D

To do this you need
1. Log pretty well centered inside the rails (which you need anyway to double cut)
2. Log well dogged/wedged/ however you want to hold it. It needs to be wobble free (should be anyway but yanno.... make sure)
3. One end of the log to be close to one of the end frames.
4. The top already off the log so you've got a flat surface up there.

And this is how you cut a 2" thick board (could be any thickness but lets say we're chasing a 2" thick double cut.

Drop down your 2" both ends from your last face and do your single cut same as always.

Stop on the end thats close to the end frame.

Turn key off, while blade is slowing center the gearbox (blade horizontal) in line with the middle of your flat on top of the log.

Set that end frame only on the 4" mark (dont touch the other end)

Wind up to 1" on the guage

Let the carriage roll back onto the top of the log (because it's now higher than your previous cut face) so your blade is fully on the log longways (dont matter if it hangs off the sides a bit)

Drop your end frame down to somewhere around the 6" mark. (The saw will now be sitting on the log with one side of the carriage free of the rails by a few inches and all the weight sitting on the sawblade.

Steady the carriage with one hand and pivot the whole lot on the blade, using the side shift winder to reposition the carriage frame onto the rails facing the other way. I usually rotate "backwards" because the riving knife rides easier that way but either is good.

Wind up to the 1" mark again
Pull the carriage clear of the log.
Drop the end frame back to the 4" mark where you started... if you havent bumped the scale it's back at the 2" depth you had on the other side of the log.
Saw.

That whole procedure took me 2 minutes 38 seconds today, and I never got out of a slow walk. The only thing you have to do is make sure you don't wind too far up or down at any point and move the vertical scale.

The other week I had to ring Lucas Mill and get a new cog for the sideshift winder... you got any idea how many miles you need to wind that thing back and forth to wear the teeth out on that cog? Somewhere in there I learnt every trick in the book... and a whole lot that aren't. :D

The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

jeepcj779

Any chance that you can post a video of that process? It would be interesting to see, especially for those of us unfamiliar with the mill's controls.

alan gage

You're going to have a lot of piles of heavy lumber. How are you going to move them around? Not saying you can't get by without some sort of tractor/loader/forklift but pretty much everyone that buys a sawmill soon figures out that the actual sawing is pretty easy, it's moving (and storing) wood that's hard. 

A swing mill would take off some of the pressure of moving logs but might increase the difficulty of moving lumber since you'll probably be sawing far away from where you'll be drying.

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

ButchC

Agreed Alan, something with a set of forks is about the next purchase after the first can of fuel for the new mill😃
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

Ianab

Quote from: alan gage on January 14, 2020, 02:30:39 PMA swing mill would take off some of the pressure of moving logs but might increase the difficulty of moving lumber since you'll probably be sawing far away from where you'll be drying.


A tractor or similar is of course a very useful thing no matter what mill you have. You can set up the mill around logs (but that takes time). Same as rolling smaller logs into place with hand tools. But it can be done. Being able to quickly place a new log on the bunks with the tractor does make life easier.  If a log is too big for your tractor, then you are back to moving the mill, but then you have a couple of hours cutting before you need to move again. 

When I'm sawing I usually flat stack off the mill on a trailer. How big a load you can take depends on your trailer size of course. But once I've got a load they get hauled home and stacked to dry. Yes you have to handle each board twice, but not for any distance. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

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