Croc or gater?

[Sawyerfortyish]

Just got an email about a 4500lb crocodile thats 21' long in NO. I thought that we only had alligators in this country. OK FDH straighten me out on this :-\.
 

[Tom]

There is an American Crocodile, Crocodylus acutus.

I'm only aware of it living in the Everglades in Florida.

Four thousand five hundred pounds sounds like an exaggeration to me.

[Sawyerfortyish]

Thats what it says 21' 4500lbs 80yrs old

[farmerdoug]

lIf that is a croc and is 4500 lbs, I think it is time to go croc hunting.  We could make boots for alot of people. :  Jeff,  We could have FF boots for the members. 8)

Farmerdoug

[beenthere]

Did some searching, and one thing found was reference to the bite force measured in some large crocs being 4500 pounds.

Also, found this
Monster Crocodile in New Orleans
Michael Maffei sent me some giant crocodile pictures that have begun doing the rounds. They're accompanied by this caption:

Now this is a Crocodile ! This crocodile was found in New Orleans swimming down the street. 21 FT long, 4,500 lbs, around 80 years old minimum. Specialists said that he was looking to eat humans because he was too old to catch animals. This crocodile was killed by the army last Sunday at 3:00 pm, currently he is in the freezer at the Azur hotel. The contents of it's stomach will be analyzed this Friday at 2:30pm.

The pictures are real enough, but they're weren't taken in New Orleans. These are pictures of the Monster Crocodile of Pointe-Noire (in the Republic of the Congo). They've been circulating for over two years. David Emery notes that the crocodile was really estimated to be 16 feet long and weighed about 1874 lbs. That's still a lot bigger than I'd ever care to encounter.

[ellmoe]

My daughter came home from school with the same "gator" story. Her teacher got the story off the internet, but in their version, the gator had consumed a few New Orleans residents. When I told her that the size was impossible, she seemed to believe her teacher more than me! What do I know, I'm just her Dad! :D You'd think she give me some credit as a wildlife biologist from Florida, but nooooo!
Mark

P.S. If it is a croc, my bet is that it will be a captive  (or rather,was a  captive) Pacific Salt Water/Ozzie Croc. Even then I'd bet it is a tiny bit smaller than described.

[beenthere]

Here's another ( I will copy this over so not to get a bad link like happened once before) story on the 'loose' about trained killer dolphins that 'escaped' into the Gulf.
September 28, 2005
Killer Dolphins in the Gulf of Mexico?
There has been a buzz in recent days surrounding an article in the Observer, a British newspaper, claiming that armed dolphins "trained by the US military to shoot terrorists and pinpoint spies underwater" escaped their compound during Hurricane Katrina and may be on the loose in the Gulf of Mexico. If you think this sounds far-fetched, you're not alone. 

"The Observer's story relies entirely upon one source, a 'respected accident investigator' named Leo Sheridan," writes Alex Boese of the Museum of Hoaxes. "But as the Register points out, Mr. Sheridan has been the source for many dubious conspiracy-style claims in the past."

Boese rates the story "highly doubtful." I concur.

A U.S. Navy Web page detailing the military use of dolphins confirms they're trained for mine hunting, sentry duty, and object recovery but makes no mention of deploying armed dolphins in combat. In fact, according to the Navy Marine Mammal FAQ, the Navy "does not now train, nor has it ever trained, its marine mammals to harm or injure humans in any fashion or to carry weapons to destroy ships."

A dolphin expert interviewed on MSNBC's "Countdown" labeled the scenario "science fiction."

[DanG]

That's the biggest croc I ever heard. ;D :D :D

[crtreedude]

Biggest Caiman I have heard about down here was 17 feet. Still plenty big. It was a man eater too and I don't think it was because it was too slow.

[farmerdoug]

I do not think a big one would be to slow.   ;DAfter all they had to eat alot to get that size.   All they have to do is lay there and some stupid human will come up to get a closer look or see if it is dead and then lunch is served. :

Farmerdoug

[CHARLIE]

Tom, Louisiana has both crocodiles and gators.

One way to tell the difference between a gator and a crock. Their jaw muscles are reversed. A gator can crush dang near anything with a ton of pressure, so you'd have a hard time holding his mouth open, but you can hold his mouth shut with one hand.  Now with a crocodile, you can not keep him from opening his jaws, but you can keep him from shutting them by holding them open.  Of course they all have to lay still while you do this. If they wiggle and squirm and you lose your grip, you are supper.  Now I've heard that gators and crocs like their tummy rubbed and will actually go to sleep as you rub it. ;D  Calms 'em down.

[Ernie_Edwards]

Charlie,

Just want to be sure to not be rubbing from the inside.

Ernie Edwards

[Faron]

One way to tell the difference between a gator and a crock. Their jaw muscles are reversed                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Charlie, I'm pretty sure I'm  not getting close enough to tell the difference, then. ;) :D

[crtreedude]

I can see it now... Oops, I thought it was a gator... 

[DonE911]

There are Croc's living in the St Lucie River in South FL.... North of the Glades by a good bit.

The biggest Croc I ever saw was about 7 FT.. and have been told of 14 footers, but I can't say for certain the person can tell the difference between croc's and gators  Now there are gators in the same river in the 18 foot range and thats very big for that river due to size of prey available.   A fishing guide I used to talk with alot says he saw a big gator kill a young manatee....  I bet Jimmy Buffet would be out gator hunting if he knew that.

Why would you kill a big one like that just because its swimming flooded streets?  It will go back to the river when the water is pumped out.  Big ones like that wont get caught away from water... they are to heavy to make the long walks to water....  a small 6 footer or so will walk miles overland to a new water hole.

[Tom]

I used to swim in the North Fork of the St. Lucie, frequently, as a youngster.

If I saw a world record animal like that in town, I would hope it would end up in a local zoo.  Can you imagine the money a city zoo could make off of that kind of attraction? :D

Still,  this and  most of these kinds of email oriented fantastic claims are just lies.  Believe me, if there was a 4500 pound gator or croc caught, you wouldn't find out about it by email.

[DonE911]

I did too Tom... probably still would if I was there. I bet when you used to swim there you could still see the bottom....  it's so messed up now you can't see waist deep from the causway north.

I have seen croc's ( real croc's ) as far north as midway road.... but mostly down around Stuart. There are some in the Savanna's south of walton road also ... I bet they could get pretty big in there....  lots of wild hogs to eat.

Do you remember about 4 years ago the pic of the 20 plus footer that was suposed to have come out of the NY sewers?? The photo made it around the net pretty good. NOT!!!

[Tom]

My sons and I had an experience with a, in my minds eye, sixteen foot alligator in the creek behind the house.  They grow real big, real fast when the relationship is more intimate than you would like.

We were paddling two canoes.  A son and I in one and a son and his friend in another.  the canoes are both 16 feet long each.

The tide was falling which left a three foot tall mud wall as a creek bank.  On top of this bank is three or four foot tall marsh grass.  The creek was about 40 feet wide at that point and we were down in a hole. 

The day was pleasant and we were enjoying the sunshine and wild roses.  All of a sudden this big gator, as long as my canoe, came flying off of the top of the bank and belly flopped about 30 feet in font of us and disappeared.  In a moment it came up about 50 feet in front of us and began swimming the same direction as we were paddling, looking back over its shoulder.  Then it spun, violently, on the top of the water throwing water everywhere, went under and then came up again about 50 feet in front.   We had kept paddling, not knowing what else to do and she was keeping the same distance in front of us.  This spinning and throwing water took place several times until, finally, she went under and didn't come up again.  I guess she went back to where we first met her.   I figure she had a nest on top of that bank and was trying to get us away from it.

No-o  Problemo !!    I didn't want to be there any more than she wanted us there.  Yep, it would be real easy for that 20 foot gator to be 25 feet by the time we got to the dock.  By supper time 28 feet would have been stretched to 30 and I'll bet the neighbors would never believe the 40 footer that scared us to death.  .......would you believe 38?  :D

[crtreedude]

True enough - meeting something like that upclose and personal life tends to make them a lot bigger. Except for the boa of course, we found evidence on her in a track. The worker is now a believer, probably thinks it is 30 feet at least now.  :D

[CHARLIE]

Don and Tom, my memories of St. Lucie River include looking down into the yellow tannin stained water and seeing the sand.  I remember it as a beautiful river and I hope it is still that way.  When I was in 5th or 6th grade, mom took my cousin and I to the park by the St. Lucie River in White City and showed us how to paint that big old Oak Tree.  I have the picture hanging up in my house today.

Tom, you said you kept paddling the same way?  Towards a big gator thrashing about 50 feet in front of you 'cause you couldn't think of anything else to do?  DanG man!  After the first thrash I'd be heading the other way as fast as I could paddle.  Of course Tom, you know that gators swim with their mouth shut, so all you had to do was reach down and grab him by the lips and hold his mouth shut. He couldn't have bit you then.......unless it was a croc instead.

I've seen many a gator, but the biggest one I saw was....I'm guessing.....about 12 feet long 'cause he was a little longer than one lane is wide. My Granddaddy and I were on the Turnpike headed for Fort Pierce from the Orlando area in 1959. In front of us was a gator crossing the southbound lanes and Granddaddy had to slow down.  The gator was up on all fours walking and just the tip of his tail was touching the ground. It was the first time I'd ever seen a gator up walking and believe me it made me realize what a powerful and strong animal they are. 

[ellmoe]

Tom,
   That big gator would have been a he, females are rarely over 9'. Maybe your were looking kinda attractive in that canoe. :D Do gator's have Budweiser glasses at closing time?
Mark

[DonE911]

Charlie....

don't go back to White City Park..... hold onto those memories....  the park is still nice... those old live oaks took the hurricanes without much damage. The water is another story.

honestly you can not see the bottom... there is at least 2 inches of muck on the bottom all the way to the St Lucie Inlet in Stuart.  The is a group of activist trying to for SFWM to do something about it, but so far big citrus is still dumping silt and chemicals into the river.

[crtreedude]

There is a place between Quepos and Dominical where a river goes under a long bridge. There are a lot of crocs (or camians) there. They are really big - many are bigger than 10 feet.

Mean looking things. A few years ago an Italian tourist, probably drunk, decided to jump from the bridge. He didn't last long. The camian are trained to accept food fromt he bridge. No one has figured out if he was trying to commit suicide or just stupid. 

Costa Rica is very much at your own risk. You have to keep your eyes open. It concerns me more than a little with all the promotion of Costa Rica by the land developers that a lot of people just don't know what they are getting themselves into. Embracing nature here can have some very bad results. You really don't want to be a tree hugger down here - the ants will eat you alive. There is an ant here called "bala / bullet" because if it bites you, you will feel like someone shot you.  :( Anytime we have guest, we watch them like a hawk and tell them first off - DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING WITHOUT ASKING.

We love being here but it sure isn't for those who like a coddled existance.

[Bro. Noble]

Well now,  I don't know a DanG thing about Crocks or alligators and don't really need to here in the Ozarks,  but I'll tell you what I heard.  This may or may not be true,  and I was a little dubious about it myself untill I heard that there are indeed both species in our southland.  According to my source of information,  the alligators and crocks crossbreed and the offspring is the meanest animal in existance.  It has a alligator head on one end and a crock head on the other

It doesn't have the parts necessary to relieve it's self  :-\------that's what makes it so mean  :

[Sawyerfortyish]

Would that be a crocagater or allidile :-\ :D

[Tom]

I think it all depends on which end you are looking at him from.  Whatever you call it, it's a big bad lizard with a horrendous case of opticalrectumylitis. ;D

[jtmccallum]

I'd guess more crock than gator :D

[Timburr]

Noble, are you sure?....it's mean, because it is forever fighting with itself over lunch :D ;D :D

[Jason_WI]

Here is your croc story:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/h/hurricane-croc.htm

It's all a croc.....

Jason

[Sawyerfortyish]

Dats da pictures I seen. Whata I know bout lizards nottin. Now if dat were a bear I could make a good guess of how big it is. But being from up north we don't have all these fun things to swim with :. So tell me now do you hold this ones jaw open or closed with your hands and being dat close how do you get away without gettin ate. Oh yea someone said you gotta rub it's belly

[rebocardo]

My wife and I had watched Steve the Croc hunter scouring Africa and the biggest croc he was thrilled to find was 16 feet (counting the missing tail piece) so I kind of doubt it was 21 feet going by the pictures. because these crocs were as big or bigger then the one in the pictures.

Plus, the side of the truck looks like 18-24 inches tall and going by that, the croc is not that large.

Plus, I totally doubt the 4500 pounds, that means an avg of 214 pounds per foot at 21 feet.  That means the biggest parts of him (the body) has to weigh over 350 pounds per foot.

It probably took 25 guys to lift it and each young and middle aged guy thought he could surely lift 200 pounds easy even though he weighes 170  pounds himself ;)

[Fla._Deadheader]

Them Lizards is all Pussycats.  ;D ;D ;)

[CHARLIE]

I just read news where stupid owners of pet pythons have turned them loose into the everglades.  Python snakes are not natural to the everglades.  They had a picture of a snake that died trying to swallow a 6 foot gator and the gator clawed himself out from the inside. Now that is a bad case of indigestion.  Anyway, the Florida Fish and Game Commission said they have found 4 encounters of pythons and gators and sometimes one wins and sometimes the other wins.  They are concerned what these snakes are going to do to the other natural animals in the Everglades.  They have captured 150 pythons already, so there must be a bunch in there now.  What kind of stupid idiot releases stuff like this into the wild?

[Jason_WI]

What kind of stupid idiot releases stuff like this into the wild?

Better yet why are these animals allowed across our borders. There is no need for a person to have a python in the first place. For what purpose do they serve other than pure amusement at feeding time.

Jason

[Slabs]

CROCKAGATOR!!! Old southern myth.  Croc head on one end, Gator head on the other.  No butt.  Can't crap.  Meanest SOB on he face of the earth.


Really; crocks can be identified by a tooth on each side of the lower jaw that is outside the upper jaw.  Can't remember which row it is.  Also, according to the Army Ranger gator keeper at the Ranger training camp on Eglin AFB, the only way to tell the sex/gender of the critter is to examine the inner region of the anal vent and feel something in there that indicates which genitles you're feeling.  Yeah, sounds hokey to me too and I'll leave all that to the "snake eaters" in the Army. 

[Tom]

Tha's no Myth!   We got swamps full of'em 'round here.   I know.   The old-timers told me so. :P

[Bro. Noble]

Slabs,

Now if that story is true or not don't make me no nevermind,  but one thing for sure is that you have way overestimated my interest in determining the gender of them big lizards

[Tom]

Br'er Noble,

That's why we call most of those big gator's "she".   "Cause to really find out, you have to move a lot quicker than we are used to doing down here.   I prefer to use my quickness and fast tennis shoes for the get-away, not the examination. :-\

[Sawyerfortyish]

Boy i'm glad I live up north . You southern boys are way to rough for me. Now let me see you have to hold the jaw either open or shut depending on how it's showing it's teeth and at the same time with the other arm reach the other end to feel if it's a male or female . Tom them old timers must be pretty darn quick I wouldn't want to try to keep up with em.

[Tom]

Yessiree, Bobcat!!

Ugly Eddy was studying with'em and got to where he could blow out the candle and get outside before the light went out.

Ugly Eddy died awhile back.  I figure it was all that fast living.  No sir!  I ain't in that big a hurry to use up all my heartbeats. :-\ :P

[leweee]

https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/Gator%20at%20door.jpg


Knock ..Knock anyone home?

[CHARLIE]

Now, these men knew that this baby was a gator and not a crock and were able to tape his mouth shut with duct tape.  If it had been a croc, the tape would not have kept his mouth shut. Notice how they also taped his......or is it a her.......eyes shut so it wouldn't see a meal in front of it's face.

[sparks]

Largest crocodile ever found was in India. 23ft long weighing in a 2500 lbs. Largest found in the US was Florida 20ft long 2200 lbs. 8ft long and 450lbs is enough for me to head the other way!!!! :D