Hello, although Ive used this site many times for cross reference and has been a big help, this will be my first time asking a question.
Ive had this HM126 for about six months, it ran well when I first set it up and slowly it has acted up more and more over time. The problem being the blade popping off. I noticed that when I would re tension the drive belt, it would run better for awhile, but I would have to go back after a couple blades and re tension the drive belt again and again. I came to the apparent conclusion yesterday that the blade was riding on the metal drive bandwheel and figured it was the diesel I had been using as lube was deteriorating the belt. It probably has about 20 hours, so maybe the diesel had softened it enough in that amount of time, I guess.
So I replaced the drive belt today, bearings too, just because I wanted to eliminate that as being a possible issue as well, replaced the follower belt.. \
Set the tracking, set the tension and fired it up. Upon fully engaging the throttle, it started to vibrate quite a bit. I shut it down and checked everything once again. I noticed that the drive belt was loose. So when the tension is off the blade, the drive belt is tensioned and tight, once I tension the blade, the drive belt becomes loose (or looser)
Is this normal? or am I over analyzing? Im honestly afraid the running the *DanG thing thinking Im going to damage something beyond repair. Yet Im trying to keep faith in this green machine.
I also noticed the blade is tracking back and forth when I spin the wheel by hand. Three different blades, same back and forth action.
Any help would be much appreciated!
Check your engine alignment with the band wheel AFTER you tension. You may have to realign engine. Also..... make sure engine mounts bolts are tighter than all get out.
Do not let saw blade ride on edges of band wheel. IF necessary go to a slightly deeper V-belt. Maybe...just maybe you have wrong size belt right from get go.
Also....run your roller blade guides about 1/16" from back of blade after fully tensioned. Once everything is perfectly aligned....that baby should just sing to you.
One other thing......I don't know how you tension your saw blade.....make sure your T-Handle ....or whatever, is not backing off tension as you saw. Vibrations from mill will cause that...I had same problem with my mill brand new. I designed my own anti-vibration lock.
Look for simple little glitches....that is 90% of troubles.
Good Luck!
The drive belt tension definitely shouldn't change when you tension the blade. X2 on the deeper V belts. One of these days I'm going to get my pulleys turned down so I have a little more belt exposed.
I haven't had the problem you're having and I've been running the HM126 for over three years, so something is up with your mill. Probably something in the various adjustments. These can be hard to track down, but if you go through everything it should be right when you're done. I found the adjustment of the drive pulley to be a little fussy, but once it was done and running well it stayed that way. My biggest issue is my belts wear out pretty quick. I think that's from running cheap belts plus I get a lot of pitch/sawdust buildup on the belts. I just haven't found the right formula for keeping them clean when sawing.
Good luck and welcome to the forum. Keep us posted on your progress and questions.
Thank you!
I got off the phone with a very helpful guy from Woodland Mills, I think with a combination of everyone's input, Ive got a plan. Im going to double check the follower belt is completely seated. I also got some advise on how to straighten the motor while trying to put tension on the drive belt at the same time, seems the trick is to remove the belt then adjust the motor, then replace belt.
I really feel good about learning a little bit more about this machine and look forward to helping someone with the same issues in the future.
Thanks again, Ill let ya know if this solves the issue(s)
We're all learning every day. All part of the game.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean about removing the belt before adjusting the motor. I usually slack off the motor, install the drive belt, then tension. I'm not sure how to do it otherwise. Maybe I just misread your post.
Anyway, the support is usually real good from those guys, so it sounds like they gave you some useful advice. Happy sawing.
Quote from: Johnkeller1979 on November 17, 2019, 11:26:46 PM
Hello, although Ive used this site many times for cross reference and has been a big help, this will be my first time asking a question.
Ive had this HM126 for about six months, it ran well when I first set it up and slowly it has acted up more and more over time. The problem being the blade popping off. I noticed that when I would re tension the drive belt, it would run better for awhile, but I would have to go back after a couple blades and re tension the drive belt again and again. I came to the apparent conclusion yesterday that the blade was riding on the metal drive bandwheel and figured it was the diesel I had been using as lube was deteriorating the belt. It probably has about 20 hours, so maybe the diesel had softened it enough in that amount of time, I guess.
So I replaced the drive belt today, bearings too, just because I wanted to eliminate that as being a possible issue as well, replaced the follower belt.. \
Set the tracking, set the tension and fired it up. Upon fully engaging the throttle, it started to vibrate quite a bit. I shut it down and checked everything once again. I noticed that the drive belt was loose. So when the tension is off the blade, the drive belt is tensioned and tight, once I tension the blade, the drive belt becomes loose (or looser)
Is this normal? or am I over analyzing? Im honestly afraid the running the *DanG thing thinking Im going to damage something beyond repair. Yet Im trying to keep faith in this green machine.
I also noticed the blade is tracking back and forth when I spin the wheel by hand. Three different blades, same back and forth action.
Any help would be much appreciated!
Hey, welcome to the forum lots of good helpful folks here
I don't think the drive belt tension is a huge issue in my experience (so far) drive belt tension loosens up as the belt wears and stretches I only tighten it if its excessively loose like and 1" deviation or notice the blade slipping (this has only happened once)...but with WM they all seem to have their quirks..
Yeah worn belts will cause you lots of trouble.. I figured that one out the hard way...your belts should always sit proud of the bandwheel and thus so should the blade...this caused me many problems with tracking and wavy cuts...this may be why your blade was popping off...btulloh gave me some helpful advice to straighten this out few months back 8)
Just curious if your side to side adjustment on your drive side band wheel (the two horizontal bolts) are loose...you are suppose to loosen those when you set the tracking on your drive side then re-tighten when you're done. the jamb nut could be tight but the bolt might not be contacting the stem that hold the bearing allowing the whole wheel to move....don't know just a thought...
Keep us updated...
Excellent point about the tracking on the drive side. I found that to be my biggest learning curve when I got the machine. The adjustment is a little fiddly and wasn't easy for me to comprehend at first. Eventually I got it through my thick head and haven't had to touch it.
Welcome to the F.F. where are yoy from ?
There are a lot of us on here with the same mill you have maybe one of us a re close enough to you to help you out
Btulloh - Hey there, I was having an issue when I would tension the belt using the horizontal tension bolt, once it would start to near the reccomended 1/4" tension, the motor would start to twist.
Mitchstockdale - I am wondering about the drive side tracking as well, I wish I understood better how it worked. I first aligned the motor perfectly square. Then I used the horizontal bolt/nuts on the drive side to adjust side to side until the belt rode perfectly on the idler pulley (as I turned front and reverse) so I guess thats it?? haha. I put a blade on and there was a lot of back and forth movement while tracking by hand, then upon start up it was I could really see it going in and out, but it didnt fall off and I made 3 cuts. Then it started shaking more and more, 4th cut, fell off. So I thought maybe i didnt have the new follower belt seated properly, it did seem kinda wanky.. re seated it and put another blade on, seemed to not move back and forth as much. Made one cut, released the throttle and after in wound down, bam! if fell off again. At this point Im just finding it amusing.
The blades I used today were all blades that have popped off before and didnt have a broken tooth on them so I sharpened them on the Woodland Mills sharpener, but I dont have a setting so they arent re set. Ive got a box of WM Double Hard blades on the way and Im curious to see if they will work better now that I believe I have everything set, tensioned, aligned, squared and new.
goose63- Thank you, everyone has been really helpful! Its amazing how much there is to learn getting into this, inch by inch. Im from Western Nebraska, Scottsbluff.
I'll be curious to hear how those doublehards work for you.
I've been using Kasko 7 degree exclusively after the initial box of Lennox ten's. Happy with the kasko but always wondering what might be better. Timberwolf blades have a good reputation too. I was not in love with lennox blades.
So you got it tracking right and the blades stopped popping off?
Well done. The learning and tweaking never ends, but that's one of the attractions.
I'll let you know how the double hards work out, with what little experience I have to compare. I did notice the teeth were off quite a bit at the welds, not sure if that's just a normal thing.
I did get a few passes, but it popped off twice. I'm hoping it's the blades, for they are old blades that I re sharpened.
Adirondacker - I was thinking about your suggestion about checking the tension as am cutting, I havent tried that, but that might be part of whats happening, thanks for the suggestion!
Check your current blades for any bends or a mis alignment at the weld. If you don't see any problems they should track even if they don't saw well after all the popping off has fouled the teeth.
Something you said about aligning the drive pulley didn't sound quite right. Check the manual for the procedure and follow carefully. Turning by hand will confirm correct tracking. Even a couple revs of the band will show a tracking problem. It should center up and stay in one spot on both pulleys. Front overhang should be equal on both pulleys. About 3/8 in front. Be sure to have the guides backed off from the blade while you're adjusting the tracking (you're probably doing that, but i just want cover all the bases).
On the drive pulley, make sure the vertical tilt is correct! The do the horizontal adjustment to be right with the idler. Don't adjust it in relation to the clutch pulley. I believe this is all in the manual, although there have been some changes since my manual was printed.
I wouldn't want to put a brand new doublehard on until the tracking was right.
I may need to call woodland and get something on how to align the drive pulley. There is nothing in the manual and a sticker on the adjustment housing that reads "dont adjust, factory set" haha, but then I didn't listen of course. I might have possibly wanted to believe that a new blade would help.. but yeah, deep down I know Im not done with adjustments. And youre right, the current blades, even though they are old, are not misaligned at the weld and no kinks. I am backing off the guides, thats become second nature now from previous issues.
Do you have any suggestions on how to adjust the vertical tilt? I think I have the horizontal tilt figured out, I suppose its the same for the vertical? But how to i gauge its accuracy? A level maybe? I dont feel measuring off the sheet metal is a good base?
And thanks in advance!
I don't have my manual handy to see how they explain the procedure but the objejective Is for both the drive and idler pulleys to be exactly co-planer. Then the horizontal tilt can be tweaked slightly to achieve proper tracking. If all things were ideal, tracking would be correct when the pulleys are in the same plane, but we don't live in a perfect world, so there's some adjustment required.
The vertical tilt (in a horizontal band saw) needs to be the same on both pulleys. Drive and idle. If not, it would not be possible to achieve decent tracking, plus the band would have a slight twist. So bad on several counts.
It sounds like they set the vertical tilt at the factory and locked it down. So maybe it's ok. Worth checking though, because traveling by motor freight can change almost anything. Put a band on and tension it. Use something like a digital angle gauge and a straight edge to compare the vertical tilt of the drive and idle pulleys. This is a little more difficult with the band in place, but easier if you use a straight edge that just fits the diameter of the pulley. A real straight edge, not just some stick.
Hopefully they match and you can move on to normal tracking adjustments. If not the adjustment works the same (I think) as the horizontal adjustment.
With all that correct, the clutch pulley should line up correctly. It can tolerate a slight misalignment, but the big pulleys cannot.
I hope that helps.
Thats really is helpful! Sounds like a good foundation type of setting that needs to be right to operate, otherwise I'm just tinkering with temporary fixes. I'm going to find a digital angle finder and check it out. Thanks again!
from your initial post you mention the vibration started after you replaced the bearings in your band wheel? Did you get that bearing seated properly if not that could be causing your wobble
Someone mentioned checking your tension after a cut..i second that thought...your tension springs could be bad..WM should easily send you new ones if youve only had the mill 6 months
Quote from: mitchstockdale on November 18, 2019, 11:30:34 AM
Quote from: Johnkeller1979 on November 17, 2019, 11:26:46 PM
Hello, although Ive used this site many times for cross reference and has been a big help, this will be my first time asking a question.
Ive had this HM126 for about six months, it ran well when I first set it up and slowly it has acted up more and more over time. The problem being the blade popping off. I noticed that when I would re tension the drive belt, it would run better for awhile, but I would have to go back after a couple blades and re tension the drive belt again and again. I came to the apparent conclusion yesterday that the blade was riding on the metal drive bandwheel and figured it was the diesel I had been using as lube was deteriorating the belt. It probably has about 20 hours, so maybe the diesel had softened it enough in that amount of time, I guess.
So I replaced the drive belt today, bearings too, just because I wanted to eliminate that as being a possible issue as well, replaced the follower belt.. \
Set the tracking, set the tension and fired it up. Upon fully engaging the throttle, it started to vibrate quite a bit. I shut it down and checked everything once again. I noticed that the drive belt was loose. So when the tension is off the blade, the drive belt is tensioned and tight, once I tension the blade, the drive belt becomes loose (or looser)
Is this normal? or am I over analyzing? Im honestly afraid the running the *DanG thing thinking Im going to damage something beyond repair. Yet Im trying to keep faith in this green machine.
I also noticed the blade is tracking back and forth when I spin the wheel by hand. Three different blades, same back and forth action.
Any help would be much appreciated!
Hey, welcome to the forum lots of good helpful folks here
I don't think the drive belt tension is a huge issue in my experience (so far) drive belt tension loosens up as the belt wears and stretches I only tighten it if its excessively loose like and 1" deviation or notice the blade slipping (this has only happened once)...but with WM they all seem to have their quirks..
Yeah worn belts will cause you lots of trouble.. I figured that one out the hard way...your belts should always sit proud of the bandwheel and thus so should the blade...this caused me many problems with tracking and wavy cuts...this may be why your blade was popping off...btulloh gave me some helpful advice to straighten this out few months back 8)
Just curious if your side to side adjustment on your drive side band wheel (the two horizontal bolts) are loose...you are suppose to loosen those when you set the tracking on your drive side then re-tighten when you're done. the jamb nut could be tight but the bolt might not be contacting the stem that hold the bearing allowing the whole wheel to move....don't know just a thought...
Keep us updated...
Ahhh, just figured out how to comment on someones post haha. I did check the drive side, something tells me the issue is there. The bolts are tight, but its not in plane vertically with the follower bandwheel. I put a level on the drive pulley, pretty close to level. Put a level on the follower pulley, its about 3/8 of an inch off. Do you think this would be an issue? I talked to woodland mills and they said thats normal??
Quote from: btulloh on November 18, 2019, 10:25:02 PM
I don't have my manual handy to see how they explain the procedure but the objejective Is for both the drive and idler pulleys to be exactly co-planer. Then the horizontal tilt can be tweaked slightly to achieve proper tracking. If all things were ideal, tracking would be correct when the pulleys are in the same plane, but we don't live in a perfect world, so there's some adjustment required.
The vertical tilt (in a horizontal band saw) needs to be the same on both pulleys. Drive and idle. If not, it would not be possible to achieve decent tracking, plus the band would have a slight twist. So bad on several counts.
It sounds like they set the vertical tilt at the factory and locked it down. So maybe it's ok. Worth checking though, because traveling by motor freight can change almost anything. Put a band on and tension it. Use something like a digital angle gauge and a straight edge to compare the vertical tilt of the drive and idle pulleys. This is a little more difficult with the band in place, but easier if you use a straight edge that just fits the diameter of the pulley. A real straight edge, not just some stick.
Hopefully they match and you can move on to normal tracking adjustments. If not the adjustment works the same (I think) as the horizontal adjustment.
With all that correct, the clutch pulley should line up correctly. It can tolerate a slight misalignment, but the big pulleys cannot.
I hope that helps.
Hi there, so I checked the vertical plane of each bandwheel. The drive sits level, or plumb. The follower bandwheel sits in on the bottom about 3/8 of an inch. I had asked the woodland mills tech about that today while I was on the phone and he said that was normal, when I would ask him how to adjust the drive side, he said to not touch the drive side adjustment. haha
He most likely believes its in the correct position and doesnt want me getting in deeper with issues, but that cant seem right that they are in two different planes vertically??
He also said its normal that they are not in plane horizontally. And they arent.. when i put a straight edge across the front faces of both bandwheels, they both tilt "inward" towards the motor.
Any suggestions would be so appreciated!
Quote from: mitchstockdale on November 19, 2019, 10:55:52 AM
from your initial post you mention the vibration started after you replaced the bearings in your band wheel? Did you get that bearing seated properly if not that could be causing your wobble
Someone mentioned checking your tension after a cut..i second that thought...your tension springs could be bad..WM should easily send you new ones if youve only had the mill 6 months
Yes, noticed vibration after replacing the drive belt, follower belt and both bandwheel bearings. The vibration has gone down a lot, I think back to normal. But that came from re seating the follower belt, it was kinda sitting in there a little wanky.
Quote from: Johnkeller1979 on November 19, 2019, 07:43:32 PM
Quote from: mitchstockdale on November 19, 2019, 10:55:52 AM
from your initial post you mention the vibration started after you replaced the bearings in your band wheel? Did you get that bearing seated properly if not that could be causing your wobble
Someone mentioned checking your tension after a cut..i second that thought...your tension springs could be bad..WM should easily send you new ones if youve only had the mill 6 months
Yes, noticed vibration after replacing the drive belt, follower belt and both bandwheel bearings. The vibration has gone down a lot, I think back to normal. But that came from re seating the follower belt, it was kinda sitting in there a little wanky.
Hi John, You said that you had replaced the bandwheel bearings or was it the blade guide bearings? I would be very surprised if the bandwheel bearings would have needed replacement with this few hours on the machine but if you did replace them i would be sure, as someone else suggested, that they are correctly seated. Also sounds like you have changed your drive side tracking even though it should have been set from the factory. I haven't touched mine so i can't advise you on that and will leave that to the woodland mills techs. They are quite good. I did have some vibration problems that i tracked down to the follow wheel belt (the red one) not being seated properly. I put a travel dial type indicator on the belt (without a blade installed) and spun the wheel and found i had about .060" of run-out. After reseating the belt by sticking a screwdriver all the way under the belt and working it all the way around the wheel a couple of times that my run-out was about .010". Also make sure that you are getting 100% of full throttle, the cable tends to stretch and needs to be adjusted from time to time. These single cylinder engines tend to vibrate more when run at less than full throttle.
Hope some of this helps.
mike
Quote from: mtoo747 on November 19, 2019, 10:24:06 PM
Quote from: Johnkeller1979 on November 19, 2019, 07:43:32 PM
Quote from: mitchstockdale on November 19, 2019, 10:55:52 AM
from your initial post you mention the vibration started after you replaced the bearings in your band wheel? Did you get that bearing seated properly if not that could be causing your wobble
Someone mentioned checking your tension after a cut..i second that thought...your tension springs could be bad..WM should easily send you new ones if youve only had the mill 6 months
Yes, noticed vibration after replacing the drive belt, follower belt and both bandwheel bearings. The vibration has gone down a lot, I think back to normal. But that came from re seating the follower belt, it was kinda sitting in there a little wanky.
Hi John, You said that you had replaced the bandwheel bearings or was it the blade guide bearings? I would be very surprised if the bandwheel bearings would have needed replacement with this few hours on the machine but if you did replace them i would be sure, as someone else suggested, that they are correctly seated. Also sounds like you have changed your drive side tracking even though it should have been set from the factory. I haven't touched mine so i can't advise you on that and will leave that to the woodland mills techs. They are quite good. I did have some vibration problems that i tracked down to the follow wheel belt (the red one) not being seated properly. I put a travel dial type indicator on the belt (without a blade installed) and spun the wheel and found i had about .060" of run-out. After reseating the belt by sticking a screwdriver all the way under the belt and working it all the way around the wheel a couple of times that my run-out was about .010". Also make sure that you are getting 100% of full throttle, the cable tends to stretch and needs to be adjusted from time to time. These single cylinder engines tend to vibrate more when run at less than full throttle.
Hope some of this helps.
mike
Hey Mike, thank you for the info, I can use all the help I can get here.
I did make sure the bearings were seated, but I'll double check. That makes sense about the throttle, I'll check that too. I did change the drive side, but it was off when I got it. The drive side never did track to 3/8. It came from the factory tracking at almost 1/4". I've re seated the follower belt a few times now, it looks nice and even. I'm going to run through it all again tomorrow with everyone's suggestions. It's going to work! Haha
Good info from @mtoo747 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=42870) , especially the throttle cable. Mine stretched also early on. It's easy to miss but easy to check and correct.
I'm also surprised your wheel bearings needed replacement so quickly, but it is what it is.
Reading some other threads about belts, it sounds like the belts from Woodmizer are a better breed of cat. I'm going to try some. All the belts I've tried from various sources don't seem to be as good as what they are describing.
You have the right attitude: "It's going to work!". And it will. Just a little fiddling required to get there. My experience with the HM126 has been just like the vertical bandsaws in my shop. Adjust and re-adjust until it runs right, then things work well from then on.
I'm curious about what you said measuring the tilt and alignment of the wheels: Were they under full tension when you were checking them? Your results in the vertical and horizontal checks sound like things are still pretty far out.
I finally went and checked my manual this morning. The reference to the left side (drive side) vertical adjustments only talk about loosening the bolts slightly to allow the shaft to move during horizontal adjustment. There is no procedure outlined for checking the vertical tilt and adjusting. This would mean that it's expected to be correct when you receive it. I don't remember doing anything initially other than the procedure outlined in the manual for initial tracking adjustment, so mine must have been ok. Seems like advice from the factory tech is the best course there.
One thing about the overall tracking adjustment though. The drive side and the follower side do interact and you have to go back and forth. It's a little tedious because you have take the tension off to adjust. You can leave the "vertical bolts" slack on the drive side while you're doing this.
At some point in this process, the blade will track ok (staying put and staying on) but the overhang/offset may be slightly different on the drive side and the idler side. I had to readjust the drive side a little at this point to get the same overhang on the blade. Then re-adjust the idler side. After a couple back-and-forths, they were both equal. Life has been good ever since.
It sounds like yours is pretty far out right now, but it should come into adjustment pretty quick. The process is a little annoying because of the walking back and forth and the release and re-tension of the blade each time.
You only have to spin the wheels by hand a couple revs to see how it's tracking. Good or bad tracking shows up real quick.
One thing I did early on which really payed off: I reversed the bolts holding the blade guard in place so the heads were on the inside. Then I stopped hitting them with my gloved fingers when spinning the wheels. Maybe that's just me, but life is better with the bolts turned around.
Good luck today. Stay after it 'til it obeys your wishes! Once it's right it should be smooth sailing.
Looking forward to a report on those double-hards after you've got it dialed in.
BT
Quote from: btulloh on November 20, 2019, 09:00:25 AM
Good info from @mtoo747 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=42870) , especially the throttle cable. Mine stretched also early on. It's easy to miss but easy to check and correct.
I'm also surprised your wheel bearings needed replacement so quickly, but it is what it is.
Reading some other threads about belts, it sounds like the belts from Woodmizer are a better breed of cat. I'm going to try some. All the belts I've tried from various sources don't seem to be as good as what they are describing.
You have the right attitude: "It's going to work!". And it will. Just a little fiddling required to get there. My experience with the HM126 has been just like the vertical bandsaws in my shop. Adjust and re-adjust until it runs right, then things work well from then on.
I'm curious about what you said measuring the tilt and alignment of the wheels: Were they under full tension when you were checking them? Your results in the vertical and horizontal checks sound like things are still pretty far out.
I finally went and checked my manual this morning. The reference to the left side (drive side) vertical adjustments only talk about loosening the bolts slightly to allow the shaft to move during horizontal adjustment. There is no procedure outlined for checking the vertical tilt and adjusting. This would mean that it's expected to be correct when you receive it. I don't remember doing anything initially other than the procedure outlined in the manual for initial tracking adjustment, so mine must have been ok. Seems like advice from the factory tech is the best course there.
One thing about the overall tracking adjustment though. The drive side and the follower side do interact and you have to go back and forth. It's a little tedious because you have take the tension off to adjust. You can leave the "vertical bolts" slack on the drive side while you're doing this.
At some point in this process, the blade will track ok (staying put and staying on) but the overhang/offset may be slightly different on the drive side and the idler side. I had to readjust the drive side a little at this point to get the same overhang on the blade. Then re-adjust the idler side. After a couple back-and-forths, they were both equal. Life has been good ever since.
It sounds like yours is pretty far out right now, but it should come into adjustment pretty quick. The process is a little annoying because of the walking back and forth and the release and re-tension of the blade each time.
You only have to spin the wheels by hand a couple revs to see how it's tracking. Good or bad tracking shows up real quick.
One thing I did early on which really payed off: I reversed the bolts holding the blade guard in place so the heads were on the inside. Then I stopped hitting them with my gloved fingers when spinning the wheels. Maybe that's just me, but life is better with the bolts turned around.
Good luck today. Stay after it 'til it obeys your wishes! Once it's right it should be smooth sailing.
Looking forward to a report on those double-hards after you've got it dialed in.
BT
So the throttle cable checked out fine, it does indeed extend fully when the hand control is completely engaged.
I really dont think I needed to replace the bearings.. although it seemed at the time I wanted to rule out any odd little things first. But yeah, more than likely, a waste of time.
I went out today, flag in one hand, skepticism in the other.. I figured the vertical alignment of the two pulleys had to be important, so I adjusted the vertical on the drive to match the follower and it made a big difference. I got it tracking to hardly any swaying (which had become a new issue) haha. Noticed again though at full throttle that there was still some vibration, seemed more than usual, although I cant seem to remember what usual was.. its been a while since Ive cut anything and didnt do much cutting when it was cutting.
So called wood land again, they still say the alignment of the clutch with the face of the drive pulley are culprits in the blade popping and vibrations. So it looks like in order to get the clutch pulley aligned the way they want it, Ill have to put smaller bolts the engine mount so it will slide back more.
Im not even sure at this point if there's any suggestions left or I just have to keep going over things until something hits me, hopefully not a blade.
John, are you using a torque wrench when you set your band tension to 25 ft/lbs? I was using an old school beam type when i first got my mill last fall and couldn't really get consistent results so i finally bought an inexpensive click type (like $30) and have much more confidence in the consistency of my band tension now.
How long have you had your mill and did it ever run well for you? I know the frustration you are having but keep after it and when it does all come together it will be worthwhile and a lot of fun.
mike
Quote from: mtoo747 on November 20, 2019, 09:17:59 PM
John, are you using a torque wrench when you set your band tension to 25 ft/lbs? I was using an old school beam type when i first got my mill last fall and couldn't really get consistent results so i finally bought an inexpensive click type (like $30) and have much more confidence in the consistency of my band tension now.
How long have you had your mill and did it ever run well for you? I know the frustration you are having but keep after it and when it does all come together it will be worthwhile and a lot of fun.
mike
Hey Mike, yes sir. Ive always tensioned with a torque wrench.
I've had the mill for about 6 months, I've sawed about 10 logs. It ran good when I first set it up. Then slowly over time it's gotten worse. So I have hopes and it makes sense that I'm just not quite back where it needs to be notand it's like a lemon or whatever.
Just hit some road blocks along the way. Might be my personality, but I kinda dig it that in learning how every little part of it works, I think it's valuable information for the future.
And thanks!
I just got home and read the latest additions. I'm getting a good idea what's going on now. I have a few questions and a long reply, but I have to add that in the morning when I fire up the computer. (I'm on an iPad now and typing on it is too slow.). Plus I'm beat. Don't make a move until I can get back to this in the morning. Definitely don't switch out those bolts on the engine mount. That would put us further down the rabbit hole.
Ill be back in the a.m.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Ok, back at it now . . .
First a couple questions:
- The saw was aligned and sawing fine initially and then things started going downhill, right?
- You said you've sawed 10 logs - how big and what kind? How many bd ft would you say you sawed?
- how many blades did you go through to saw the 10 logs?
- The alignment an tracking were ok originally, but not after you replaced the wheel bearings?
If it was OK and then something changed and the alignment is off now, so lets dig into what changed. After replacing the wheel bearings, you started to have alignment issues and vibration, if I read everything correctly. That tells me to look at the wheels and bearings and see what's different or got missed.
I looked at the exploded view in the manual. There are no washers or shims behind the wheels, so that's not the problem. I see that the bearing retainer ring faces OUT. Did the wheels get reinstalled with the retainer ring facing IN? That would change the offset and put things out of alignment for sure.
The motor mount was OK before, so it should be OK now. Using smaller bolts so you can move it back would be correcting a problem that started somewhere else. It would also make it hard to keep the engine from skewing when tensioning the drive belt. Those should be a fairly tight fit both on the engine bosses and the mounting plate. That keeps things aligned when tensioning. For the record, I haven't any issues with the engine skewing when putting tension on the drive belt. It stays in alignment pretty well.
Things happen and two different mills can act a bit differently, but I've sawed several hundred logs up to 26" and haven't had any bearing issues or anything other than normal maintenance to keep up with. It seems unusual that you would run into bearing issues that early on.
I suspect that the degradation in sawing performance was from a dull blade
to continue . . . (the keyboard stopped working - restart)
So anyway, blade starts dulling, working harder, drive belt stretches a little due to normal break-in, cut quality degrades . . . It would be normal with a brand new saw for the belt to stretch and maybe initial alignment drift a little. Then it's time t0 re-tension the belt and touch up the alignment. Does any of this sound about right?
I'm curious to see what you were sawing and how far you pushed your blade. I rarely can get more than 200 bd ft out of a blade. These saws run a little lower band speed and are bit under-powered, but that's the nature of things. Mine is only 9.5 hp - the bigger engine was not available at the time. I accept the trade offs that come with buying the lower end saw. That means we can't get as many bd ft as the bigger saws with the 25-30-35 hp engines. Also we're cutting bark usually, and the bark has trapped dirt etc even if the logs weren't skidded. That takes the sharp out pretty quick. A tree growing for 50, 60, 70 years or so gets a lot of wind-blown dirt embedded in the bark, and this is quite abrasive. If the logs were skidded and picked up dirt or mud, even worse. So sawing into bark drags the abrasive dirt through the cut and dulls the band quickly.
- - got off into the bark thing there. Maybe preaching to the choir. Sorry if this is old news.
On checking the throttle cable: The easiest way to make sure it's still correct is to grab the handle and go full throttle, then reach over and try to increase the throttle lever on the engine. If it picks up speed, the cable has stretched a little. (Just making sure - we can't afford to lose any rpm's.)
Quote from: btulloh on November 21, 2019, 09:01:14 AM
Ok, back at it now . . .
First a couple questions:
- The saw was aligned and sawing fine initially and then things started going downhill, right?
- You said you've sawed 10 logs - how big and what kind? How many bd ft would you say you sawed?
- how many blades did you go through to saw the 10 logs?
- The alignment an tracking were ok originally, but not after you replaced the wheel bearings?
I really appreciate this!
The saw really did run great when I first set it up, followed all the procedures and it worked just as it was supposed to. I know I pushed the blades past their limit. This might of caused alot of stress to the machine. Some of the logs were fairly good sized, cottonwood, pines, ash - I get most of my logs from the tree dump here in Nebraska (home of Arbor Day, home of worlds largest man made forest, but not too many trees available haha.) And probably alot of dirt and sand on them.
And no, the tracking was a mess before the bearings, I thought the bearings were fine, but at the time I had some advice about switching out the bearings and figured the diesel I was using that had deteriorated the belt, beyond use, might have effected the bearings too. But the bearings are seated and snap washer is facing out. I honestly felt really confident that the belt being worn down to the metal on the bandwheel was the problem, but new belt(s), and still problems, Im just not sure if its the same exact problem. I dont think I looked at things as close as I am now back when I thought it was the belt.
Thats a really good point on why I would need to change the mount if it worked before.. Unless it never was lined up properly from the factory, maybe thats part of why the original belt wore out in such a short amount of time? Partly?
Im going to head out there and look at things again.
Okay, so I think im getting closer!
Vibration was indeed from the throttle, thought it was wide open, but the stop-set screw was in a little too far, Im guessing it simply vibrated out of place, or maybe the motor just wanted to be running at a bit higher rpm due to the colder weather.
I got everything tracking really well, the belt aligned really nice and with the old blade on, it just hummed like a bee!
I made a cut just to see what she would do and I could feel the blade was really dull, I think it decided to pop off only because it pushed it back off the wheel.
So I got my new double hard blades today and ran back out to see how they would react with the machine. I noticed while putting them on that they are quite a bit larger than the lennox. Now I cant get them tracked, just a minor adjustment one way or the other sends them too far forward or backwards.
I didnt have much time to investigate, but just wanted to say thank you so very much to everyone that helped get my machine this far, I think its right where it needs to be just need to get the new blade situation figured out.
A many thanks again!!!
Quote from: btulloh on November 20, 2019, 09:00:25 AM
Good info from @mtoo747 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=42870) , especially the throttle cable. Mine stretched also early on. It's easy to miss but easy to check and correct.
I'm also surprised your wheel bearings needed replacement so quickly, but it is what it is.
Reading some other threads about belts, it sounds like the belts from Woodmizer are a better breed of cat. I'm going to try some. All the belts I've tried from various sources don't seem to be as good as what they are describing.
You have the right attitude: "It's going to work!". And it will. Just a little fiddling required to get there. My experience with the HM126 has been just like the vertical bandsaws in my shop. Adjust and re-adjust until it runs right, then things work well from then on.
I'm curious about what you said measuring the tilt and alignment of the wheels: Were they under full tension when you were checking them? Your results in the vertical and horizontal checks sound like things are still pretty far out.
I finally went and checked my manual this morning. The reference to the left side (drive side) vertical adjustments only talk about loosening the bolts slightly to allow the shaft to move during horizontal adjustment. There is no procedure outlined for checking the vertical tilt and adjusting. This would mean that it's expected to be correct when you receive it. I don't remember doing anything initially other than the procedure outlined in the manual for initial tracking adjustment, so mine must have been ok. Seems like advice from the factory tech is the best course there.
One thing about the overall tracking adjustment though. The drive side and the follower side do interact and you have to go back and forth. It's a little tedious because you have take the tension off to adjust. You can leave the "vertical bolts" slack on the drive side while you're doing this.
At some point in this process, the blade will track ok (staying put and staying on) but the overhang/offset may be slightly different on the drive side and the idler side. I had to readjust the drive side a little at this point to get the same overhang on the blade. Then re-adjust the idler side. After a couple back-and-forths, they were both equal. Life has been good ever since.
It sounds like yours is pretty far out right now, but it should come into adjustment pretty quick. The process is a little annoying because of the walking back and forth and the release and re-tension of the blade each time.
You only have to spin the wheels by hand a couple revs to see how it's tracking. Good or bad tracking shows up real quick.
One thing I did early on which really payed off: I reversed the bolts holding the blade guard in place so the heads were on the inside. Then I stopped hitting them with my gloved fingers when spinning the wheels. Maybe that's just me, but life is better with the bolts turned around.
Good luck today. Stay after it 'til it obeys your wishes! Once it's right it should be smooth sailing.
Looking forward to a report on those double-hards after you've got it dialed in.
BT
Hi, I don't know where to talk about my worries with my 2019 hm126 portable.
You seem to know a lot so I'll try my luck here.
I've been very meticulous to follow all the proper tracking instructions fro the very first time I used my Woodland sawmill hm 126. So I've got the tracking on point with the first three days of milling. Now (probably 30 hours of milling in) today I had my blade slip off for the first time. It's partly my fault for not opening up the head before starting up from the day before. I figured it was because of excess sawdust on the tracking side that got in between the blade and the wheel that made it slip off. I havn't checked recently for loss of tension while milling, but I'll do that.
Now... when I was putting on my next brand new blade (wiped clean of course), I tracked it as I always do, but on the BELT SIDE of the blade always seemed to come out of the wheel almost half way. This was too much for my comfort and really messed around with the tracking, going back and forth, small 1/8th of a turn sometimes to see if anything would get rid of the OFFSET ON THE BELT SIDE WHEEL. But nothing significant. Then I thought that loosening the guide bolts weren't enough maybe and that the wood-gunkiness what keeping it too tight so i backed it up completely (but on the belt side) and tested it out at higher speed. Stopped it. Then I tightened by backing up the engine, properly measuring that it's loose what "no more than 1/4 inch". I'll note that I most likely did not have 25lbs of tension on the blade while I did this (then read in the 2020 manual on the woodland website that they need the tension on while you adjust the belt, it's a different mechanism though, with a tensioner pulley, nothing to do with my 2019). So tracked it back as best at I could, leaving the tracker a little more backup to give the blade a chance of doing just that...
Third cut in and brand new blade came off. So I called it a day, cleaned up and came searching on the net.
The troubleshooting in the manual says that one of the plausible causes of the blade coming off with a worn belt... any thought on that, it doesn't look at all that worn. There is a little bit of a wobble if I try to shake the belt side wheel, But i feel like that's normal... I might be wrong. I fallowed the rule of not playing with the belt side tracking and now I'm wondering what to do next.
Hopefully somebody who will have read trhough my problem will discuss this with me or redirect me to a thread that I didn't find.
Thanks everybody,
this looks like a very nice comunity.
Jonathan, Arborist and hobby-timberframer.
Hello Johnathan and welcome to the forum! I had this reply written once and somehow managed to erase it so i'll try again. You should add your location to your profile as there may be someone close to you who can help. I doubt that you have a worn belt at 30 hrs on the mill and you are right to not mess with the drive side tracking. Sounds like you have a tracking or interference problem. Start by backing the blade guides back so that the rollers are not pushing the band forward. Put the band on both wheels so that the back of the band is flush with the back of the each wheel using only enough band tension to keep it in place. If you can't get it flush on both wheels you have an interference problem possibly those pesky little bolts holding the top clamp to the sheet metal guard. The band needs to be under those bolts not in front. Once you have the band flush to the back of both wheels apply your 25 lb tension using a torque wrench. Then turn your idler wheel slowly by hand to see if the band starts to walk. If it does, reposition the band flush again and with the T handle backed off one turn from full tension loosen the 24mm nut and make your tracking adjustment, tighten the 24mm nut, re tension the band and try it again. It may take a couple of adjustments but you should be able to run the band all the way around without it walking and it should stay flush with the back of the bandwheels. Once this is set, reset your band guides so that you have correct clearance on the rollers and you should be good to go. Good luck. I will check back on this tomorrow. mike