Preserving timbers?

[scgargoyle]

One of the projects I'm planning for our place in SC is an outdoor kitchen area, and I want to build a timber frame gazebo over it. I found a good source for sawn timbers of all sizes in SYP. My concern would be keeping rot and termites out of my vertical posts. I'll pour a slab, and either buy or make steel mounts to keep the posts up off the slab, but I'd like to be sure they won't rot. Could I just dip the lower end of the post in wood preservative? I figured I could just stand the post up in a bucket, and let it soak for a couple days. Think that would work? Or I could build a trough, and float the whole thing in there. Any thoughts?

[beenthere]

scgargoyle
Should work if (that is a big if) you could find a wood preservative that will be up to the task. If Penta was still on the market, for sure it would work. Because it is no longer available, then maybe the enviros have an answer. 
What wood preservative do you have in mind?

Visual inspection for the termites and attention to the construction, as you plan, should work for those critters. Rot will mean the posts need protection from moisture.

[Rooster]

You might be able to resaw treated SYP utility poles for your vertical posts....just a thought.

Rooster

[Brad_bb]

How about a masonry/stone pier maybe 18-24 inches high for the post to sit on?  Termites are not likely to want to climb the pier exposed to the sun to get to the post.  Make sure the mounting surface is such that water will not collect.  If you want extra insurance, separate the post from the stone with a spacer.  My first thought is some Ipe (just because I have a pallet decking scraps in my barn left over from my folks new deck).  Sure you could also use a piece of treated lumber as the spacer too.  The Ipe is naturally rot proof, and termite proof.  Just a thought, and the stone/masonry piers would look good too.  And you could have  short stone wall around the perimeter at a height conducive to sitting (on a cap stone).

[scgargoyle]

That's a good idea, Brad. I'm already planning to have a 2' concrete wall around the perimeter of my barn for the framing to sit on- I could do the same thing in a more decorative manner for the gazebo. I think I'd just go with piers to keep the cost down- I could run horizontal planks between the piers to sit on, though. I could taper the tops of the piers to encourage drainage, and if I really wanted to get fancy, put copper caps over them to discourage the termites. I expect to spend a lot of time out there, so inspection for mud tubes would be a regular thing, just like I'll do around the house and barn.

The only wood preservatives I know of are the ones they sell at the big box stores. They do list copper as an ingredient, but I don't think it's anywhere near what used to be in the old green Cuprinol we used on docks in the old days.

[ljmathias]

Standard here for termite protection is 12" or so, and I can't imagine a termite hungry enough to build a mud tube that high with all the wood we have laying on the ground down here.  Could be wrong though- over the years, I've seen wood laying getting termites within a week or two.  What I can't figure out is, do they just lay around waiting for some wood to come their way or do they move around underground till they find some?  Either way, there are a LOT of the buggers just waiting to eat something made out of wood...

Lj

[PineNut]

I don't know where the termites hang out but I moved some cement blocks yesterday. No wood around them but there were termites under them.  They just seem to be everywhere just waiting for a meal. (I don't think they ate the cement blocks but I didn't check real close.)

Yes, termites here are quick to feast. The pattern goes like:
Monday – cut a deal
Tuesday – move in
Wednesday – feast
Thurs – move out
Friday – for sale

[scgargoyle]

Termites are very active here in FL, that's why I'm so paranoid. As you say, a piece of wood laying on the ground will attract them fast. My property in SC is at the edge of the mountains, so the termites probably aren't quite as bad, but I have to assume they are. I've got 7 acres of woods- I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Here in FL, they used to bury all of the wood when they cleared for subdivisions. All of that buried wood was paradise for termites, who thrived in the free wood supply. About 5 years later, the wood is consumed, so guess where they head? It's now illegal to bury wood like that in a subdivision. We've had them in our house here; they came up through the seam in the slab between the house and attached garage. It was just dumb luck that we saw them before they did serious damage. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of concrete piers. I was going to build on a slab anyhow; I can just leave rebar sticking up everywhere I want a pier/post.

[Raider Bill]

John,

They scare me too! I have a rental just up the street that's eaten up with them in a very short time.

Maybe treat your wood with preservitive and the ground with termidor or something?

My friend just built a deck using telephone poles as posts and sawn poles as deck boards. Paid $2.40 ea for 1x4x16 deck boards. no shrinkage or twisting.

[scgargoyle]

I bet sawn poles would be pretty stable- they've had a long time to do what they're going to do. I'll build the gazebo on a slab because I'll have at least two grills out there, but I'm planning a lot of porches for this place, so I need a good source for decking.

[Brad_bb]

I don't know about down there, but up here we have phone poles that were creosote treated like RR ties.  Stuff doesn't smell good.  I wouldn't want to use it.  I did have a guy in Indiana tell me that he's used phone poles sawn to decorative siding, so maybe it was protected with somehthing else that wasn't so bad?
   You would at least stone veneer those concrete peirs, right?  I'm thinking a nice gray or lime stone.

[TblRxDave]

Here in Pickens Co. SC they have a new rule concerning termite control. To comply with the building permit one must have a certified and signed document from a registered bug exterminater before the concrete is poured. Six years ago when I built my barn this regulation wasn't in effect. I only know this from my neighbor who has just started building his new work shop.
One observation that I have noticed is that dry wood is less likely to have termites. Wood that is wet or in high moisture areas might be more prone to infestation.
I usually do a yearly bug control around my buildings and haven't had any problems that I'm aware of.
Dave.

[scgargoyle]

My property is right next door, in Greenville County. I don't know what their regs are for termites, but I'd want the foundation area treated anyway, just for peace of mind. I do know that if I put up a building for 'agricultural use', I don't even need a permit, and for a residence, I don't have to show plans- they don't look at 'em even if you do have them. I don't see why my gazebo couldn't be called a 'goat shelter', and thus be free of any hassles.

[Raider Bill]

Dave,
We've had that same requirement here in our part of Florida for years. Taking the clue I self treated my dirt before pouring concrete in Tenn.

John,
Don't take any chances termidor isn't that expensive