Is This Your Homemade Stamp?

[Don P]

 

 
Reported in GA. If it's yours, you just went nationwide and not in a good way, just sayin.

[moodnacreek]

I think I can do that if I saw it and sell it to the end user and only No. 2 and If the local building inspector approves my lumber for that project. But there would be no reason to stamp it but I have to submit paperwork.

[Sawyerfortyish]

So what's not a good way? Did they forget to pay someone a fee for allowing them to stamp there own lumber.

[moodnacreek]

From what I understand there are very few certified lumber inspectors so a fake one would not be cool.

[Southside]

What's the rest of the story? Asking for a friend. 

[Old Greenhorn]

I don't know much about these but that isn't a legit stamp. It doesn't identify the mill and it doesn't have a certification number. It just looks like a rubber stamp. SO what is the back story?

[Nebraska]

 

[YellowHammer]

I don't know much about these but that isn't a legit stamp. It doesn't identify the mill and it doesn't have a certification number. It just looks like a rubber stamp. SO what is the back story?

I agree. 
  
  

[Andries]

The sky high prices for framing lumber is incentifying some risky dodgy behaviour.

[Southside]

Half wonder if it's not a Chinese import thing. The new Prada. 

[mike_belben]

Cmon.. People chop the cats off parked cars, have died cutting live copper lines, park over the gas pumps and fill totes in tinted cargo vans.  What so sacred about lumber?  Of course someone is gonna find an easier way to get the cheese.

[Ljohnsaw]

 :P

[711ac]

I don't know much about these but that isn't a legit stamp. It doesn't identify the mill and it doesn't have a certification number. It just looks like a rubber stamp. SO what is the back story?

I agree but at this point, without false mill and certificates it seems to me that it's about equal to a lumber crayon identifying that stick or pile.

[sealark37]

And, we all know that a licensed lumber grader inspected every 2x4 on that rail flatcar before he wrapped them.

[Edvantage]

So if I cut up someone's steer and mark the package as t-bone steak, hamburger etc. Does this make it wrong? Now if I marked it USDA choice or prime than I could see a problem. Regarding the lumber stamp it would really depend how the lumber was being marketed. Was the stamp an attempt to deceive or just labeling the product.

[Ianab]

Half wonder if it's not a Chinese import thing. The new Prada.

I was thinking "import" as well, not specifically from China, and NZ has different grading and stamping, but with lumber prices in the US so high at the moment there must be an incentive to import some wood from anyplace it can be procured?  Could be radiata pine from Chile, and I have no idea how their grading works.

[hamish]

Unless its from a commercial mill, not every stick is going to be marked with HLGA markings.  If i ger a grader to grade my lumber he will mark a few here and there, how I choose to keep track of my lumber if pretty much up to me.  I have never seen a building inspector inspect very piece of lumber on a job site.  A grading approval for the lot will suffice.

[Larry]

SSMU is Small Saw Millers United

By the most famous ARKANSAWYER.  Think he said he got the stamp at Walmart. :D :D

[SwampDonkey]

You can get a course for small saw millers up here to get your stamp. But you have to saw on your property in order the grade. Can't go off site and still be able to grade stamp it. And the grade stamp will have MLB on the stamp, the regional grading authority, plus your mill number and so on.

[Don P]

Any stationary sawmill can do that, there is a hefty fee for oversight,"pop inspections" to make sure that you have looked at every stud on that traincar load. I've had the training but decided it is too expensive for me to stamp.

This email came from the national overseeing body and went out to everyone on their email list. If you do represent a grade without one of their agency's oversight, which was done here, that is not legal and is subject to enforcement.

Some states do have exceptions, check that out before representing wood for sale as having a grade. There are usually some hoops or training to jump through. You can also contact the nearest grading authority and have them grade on a per job basis. Some inspectors will accept a letter from an engineer as well. With the exception of Canada, imported lumber comes in under the oversight of one of the US or Canadian authorized grading agencies, everything I've seen came in under WWPA's stamp.

I have had bootleg stamped lumber turn up on a job, I don't go looking for stamps any more than the average inspector does. By the time I noticed it most of the wood was already in the frame. I looked it over and it was on grade or better so I chose to keep my mouth shut, order elsewhere and hope for the best. We passed but someone got busted. As an unwilling accomplice the builder pointed to the supplier who was sitting on a warehouse full of the now unsaleable lumber. The inspector has a great deal of latitude including "take that down and try again". I do not know how far upstream that went but I wouldn't expect folks to cover your rear if things do not go well.

[SwampDonkey]

I talked to a guy recently who used to work for a mill as a grader. I asked if he was trained and if he knew who the regional lumber grading authority was. Said yes, training at the mill under others, but never had a clue about a regional grading authority. This was in a large commercial softwood mill. I said how would you not know who Maritime Lumber Bureau was? I said they inspect. I said that mill needed bodies whether they were capable or not. It ain't around no more. ;)

[azmtnman]

The lumber grading industry itself may not be intentionally corrupt, but coupled together with the building code industry it has become the "pay-to-play" police. Nothing but extortion and tax!
  I understand the need for building codes (commercial buildings, contractors hired) but when they require me to buy something I can make myself or to pay someone an unreasonable amount to give me permission to use my own stuff, it steps on my "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness." 
  The whole "well, the next person that buys it....blah, blah, blah" is horse pucky! If I buy something and borrow from the bank, they are going to make me pay an inspector it inspect it. 
  

[SawyerTed]

This is an interesting topic.  I recently received a call from a "potential customer" who asked questions about the use of lumber off my mill, whether it would pass inspection, has it been used in residential or commercial construction and several other questions I found unusual for a potential customer.  Not one question regarding rates, sawmill capacity etc. After a bit of checking on my part, I learned the individual is an area building inspector.  

Of course my answers to his questions were my lumber could not be used for structural construction of residential or commercial buildings.  If he wanted to have lumber inspected it was up to him.  He could use the lumber in an agricultural building or outbuilding that did not require inspection or in cosmetic/decorative non-structural applications in residential or commercial construction. I am quite careful (to the point of being repetitive) with customers regarding this issue.  However, fitness for use/application is up to the customer in NC.  I just don't want there to be a misunderstanding.

I have heard through the grapevine, a previous customer used some lumber I cut in a structural application and the inspector was checking on how I advise customers.  I suspect it has been a contentious issue between them. 

On the original post in this thread, it appears that consumers need to be very careful now that there are lumber "knock offs" in the market.

[Southside]

Sounds like your building inspector wanted to work for the FBI instead.  Honestly, what you describe there reminds me of the lift kit, loud exhaust, dark window film that you can buy at most auto stores, install yourself, and never be legal on the road.  The judge won't let you then claim the retail shop didn't warn you of that when you get a ticket.  

[Don P]

It sounds like he was trying to get you to state suitability for a purpose, glad you declined his offer of entrapment. I hope Andy has his bullet safely tucked away.

I remembered another job and shady supplier, we got into the wood and it was well manufactured trash. Looked for a stamp, none, from a big mill that's #4, culls, no design values  :.

[Ianab]

I bet the customer / builder had told the Inspector "The guy I bought it off said it was good / graded". 

If you told him it was ungraded / not guaranteed structural, then the customer was on the hook for using it wrong. If you had fed the inspector a line, it might have come back to haunt you. 

It's ironic that building failures are seldom down to owner/builder using ungraded wood. It's more often large industry companies taking shortcuts to save a few $$.  House leaks due to cheap (but trendy) cladding, and untreated wood rots out after a few years. 

Meanwhile an overbuilt 60 year old house with decent eaves to shed water is fine... 

[SwampDonkey]

There was a true to life movie of an old guy in Saint John, NB who sawed his own and built his own home. He was a master carpenter and his trees were old growth red spruce with tight rings. He had quite a time with inspectors, went to court and won. They couldn't prove it was structurally unsound just because the lumber was not inspected and stamped with ink.

What is ironic when I think about it. We built a packing shed in 1987, cut spruce, had it sawed at a local mill, engineer approved the wood to build the structure. 50 x 80 feet. Built our own rafters, whole nine yards. 1994 comes along, had a much larger addition to add on. Reputable contractor does the work, engineered trusses made locally. Woods all graded and stamped from whichever mill it came from. Snow took it down in 2020. Older section we build before, stood strong.  :D

[azmtnman]

It's ironic that building failures are seldom down to owner/builder using ungraded wood. It's more often large industry companies taking shortcuts to save a few $$.  House leaks due to cheap (but trendy) cladding, and untreated wood rots out after a few years.

Meanwhile an overbuilt 60 year old house with decent eaves to shed water is fine...

This.
What did we ever do before we had powers-that-be to take care of us?  :D :D :D
I don't know, but I'm willing to bet the county building code departments belong to an association that will back them up in court?? Does anyone know? 
What jerks my chain is that there isn't even any provision for the owner/builder to use his home sawn material--like "code calls for a 2x4 so use a 2x6 and you'll be good."
What was meant to protect and help people has become an extorsion industry. 

[Mooseherder]

Some States are more reasonable.

New Hampshire Native Lumber law | UNH Extension

§ 43-28-313. Tennessee Native Species Lumber Act. :: 2016 Tennessee Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

[lazyflee]

 

This is the back room of my restaurant. Built this little pony wall to separate our new casino area. First, submit plan to state and DOJ, approved, build wall. Then, Inspected by county health inspector, state fire marshall, county and state building inspectors, and finally DOJ inspector. Just for a 4' tall wall with no load bearing or electrical. Forms, forms, and more forms. Tax dollars hard at work!

[barbender]

Parasites 

[Jeff]

If it were not for building inspectors I would be the proud owner of a vertical log cabin in the U.P.  Not a fan.

[YellowHammer]

I had a high school acquaintance get in big time trouble with the law many years ago.  He and his business partner would buy truckloads of structural graded lumber, obscure the existing grade stamp, and restamp the wood with a counterfeit stamp of a higher grade.  Then they would resell the wood at a higher price, because it was marked at a higher grade.

Basically a wood product chop shop. 

[Nebraska]

What the heck is wrong with a vertical log cabin?!!?

[terrifictimbersllc]

There was a true to life movie of an old guy in Saint John, NB who sawed his own and built his own home.

 "Still Mine".  Very good but very aggravating to watch. 

[SwampDonkey]

Here's more details about Craig Morrison's case.

https://martyklinkenberg.weebly.com/article.html

[barbender]

YH, if I have to go to the Big House, I want it to be for something that is a bit crazy and/or dangerous. Running drugs, armed robbery, grand theft auto...I'd hate to tell my cellmate I was in for restamping lumber😂😂

[Don P]

Almost as bad as saying you're in for littering  :D

What did we ever do before we had powers-that-be to take care of us?  :D :D :D
I don't know, but I'm willing to bet the county building code departments belong to an association that will back them up in court?? Does anyone know?

There is no doubt tough enforcement does save lives. Don't have to love it but them's the facts.

A building inspector, much like a cop does have immunity from prosecution if they are acting properly in their duties. There are complaint mechanisms. If there is a difference of opinion on the interpretation in his application of a particular code there is a technical review board that will hear both sides of the disagreement and render an opinion on that appeal although that opinion is just that, it doesn't have force of law. Since a code is a law a person can also seek redress in a court of law. The county is who would back them up in court as far as legal representation. I have seen a TRB opinion overturned in court.

The examples you all are complaining about are owner builders, people using their wood for their house. That is one issue. The example I started the thread with is someone misrepresenting wood for sale to others as being graded and suitable for others to use, a different issue. I'm fine with the discussion but do notice those are different things. In fact, when I want to use wood I've sawn in a house, it isn't my house. I think you all know I'm a responsible person but should anyone in my situation be free to do that without oversight. I've seen a fair amount of work and of considerably different quality and safety. Life gets complicated don't it  :D.

The building official we endured here for the last 16 years had many more complaints against him than should have been possible to maintain his job. He used the power of his position as a club to beat those he didn't care for. I imagine he cost the people of this poor rural county millions of dollars. In that regard I think we do a poor job of weeding out people who are unfit for such responsibility. He's head of the state building officials association now but he is out of our hair. I also saw him mentor young people and bring in big grants to the county. I think the new guy is going to do just fine, in my aggravation with the department I was less than welcoming in our first exchange. A reminder that every human is unique.

[Southside]

A few years back the local building inspector and an assistant showed up here because he got an "anonymous complaint" that I was building a chimney without a permit.  If you saw where we live you would scratch your head.  I knew right away who had made the complaint as a neighbor, I have yet to see when he is sober, showed up one day when I was carrying two buckets of bricks out of the house from demoing an old chimney that had not gone through the roof for 25 years.  Anyway, I happened to be in the woods off the side of the house a bit clearing an area and when they pulled in my skidder and saw happened to be off.  So they pulled in and heard and saw nothing, turned around, and were leaving as I walked out of the woods - wearing my cutting helmet, chaps, gloves, boots, etc.  They didn't see me until I was right up to their vehicle and when they did see me their eyes all but popped out of their heads.  Clearly they were startled by this guy suddenly standing by their door dressed like Freddy Kruger and you could tell they were trying to understand why I was dressed like that.  Not being one to let go when I have the upper hand I just went along with the conversation as though I simply walk around dressed like that.  It was funny, they could not get out of there fast enough, and actually apologized for bothering me and told me they would not be back.  Yup - completely spooked - just the way I like it.  

Fast forward to now and I have done two jobs for building inspectors from other counties this year already, and to this day locally they leave the crazy guy alone.   8)

[Jeff]

What the heck is wrong with a vertical log cabin?!!?

In the U.P. no less!
An inspector that was from down state who "retired" to dafter in the u.p.. Who became the buulding inspector for chippewa county who saw vertical log houses built on stumps and rocks around lakes he visited and figured they all rot. He didnt like em. He wanted me to have signed engineered drawings to proceed.  That would of cost more than it took to build the cabin.  Find an old very long topic called dreams of a cabin.

[donbj]

What the heck is wrong with a vertical log cabin?!!?

In the U.P. no less!
An inspector that was from down state who "retired" to dafter in the u.p.. Who became the buulding inspector for chippewa county who saw vertical log houses built on stumps and rocks around lakes he visited and figured they all rot. He didnt like em. He wanted me to have signed engineered drawings to proceed.  That would of cost more than it took to build the cabin.  Find an old very long topic called dreams of a cabin.

Need to factor resale into the picture and the situation gets clearer, and I'm sure you get it. Some of this stuff gets built with no regard to standards and the next owner gets holding the bag. Thus the "big brother"syndrome.

[SwampDonkey]

I think it is up to the buyer to do there due diligence. When I buy a piece of land it's not a requirement the boundary lines are marked, not required to have a road built up through the middle of it, not required to have every tree inventoried, not required to haul all the old junk iron hauled off it........... :  Some folks are just lazy and do everything sight unseen, a lot of that showing itself during the pandemic besides the ridiculous price people will pay for old structures needing a tonne of work. Most move on within 5 years of buying those old relics. Another thing that comes up is any time you have a requirement by law or government oversight on a project, the rates go up by the job or the hour. Put in a drain field and find out, for instance. A $5000 job will be $10,000 or more, I guarantee it. The whole thing invites being taken advantage of in your wallet. The tank system is only $1100 locally and the 2 tubes out from that are surely less than that for a bunch of plastic. Then your digging hours. Since most of us are not on sand, your going to be hauling sand for the field. At most, a half day job with a crew with their stuff together. But oh no, it has to be inspected before it is covered. And the inspector ain't going to be there the day your putting it together. Money money money.

[mike_belben]

Well we are always griping about the shortage of laborers around here.


If you plot out the growth of regulations as an American cultural phenomenon, cross reference that to the trend of 'everyone without an advanced degree is a loser' and then think back to the shortage of actual workers curve, it becomes clear that a lot of folks who didnt degree their way into the executive management wing as planned, found homes as inspectors, regulators and enforcers.  


A title and authority scratches a lot of small, cowardly people's itch for might and power.  That is not to say that all inspectors are that way.  It is to say people who are already like that will seek positions to wield.  When they get the authority, theyll flex it to medicate their powertrip.


I got $200/day fines from one such enforcer midgit without actually doing much of anything wrong.  That guy couldnt wait to jump on me.  Mailed me pictures of my house like every week.  Never man enough to knock on the door.   5'2" with lots of stories of intimidating people when i finally met him.  Wore that badge like a texas belt buckle.  Sherriff complex.  theyre a dime a dozen in mediocre power positions. 

[SwampDonkey]

My uncle had one in court. Sitting there on the stand with his knees up to his chest like a 4 year old, but with a smile on his face. It was a wonder the judge didn't instruct him to sit proper, that right there was an indicator that he was not going to be judged. They just shuffled him from Farm Credit to signing your drivers license and lived happily ever after. A real winner that one. Cost many farmers their livelihood and no accountability. The darkest days of modern times for rural NB was during Premier Mckenna's 2 terms of office. His biggest legacy was call centres that all failed. People who didn't have to deal with crap thought of him as their shiny haired boy. :

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

Almost as bad as saying you're in for littering  

Yep, Arlo Gutherie found out how bad that was at Alice's Restaurant!!!

[YellowHammer]

YH, if I have to go to the Big House, I want it to be for something that is a bit crazy and/or dangerous. Running drugs, armed robbery, grand theft auto...I'd hate to tell my cellmate I was in for restamping lumber😂😂

I agree, they figured nobody would care, I guess, certainly not the multimillion dollar subdivision builders and contractors who were unknowingly buying their counterfeit lumber and using it. :D ;)  For some reason, those people cared a lot, and came at them like a runaway train.

A classic case of how short term thinking can get someone in long term trouble.  

[moodnacreek]

All the parasites appear when real estate changes hands. About the only way around it is to have cash and know what you are buying. Then you can hardly touch the place without more parasites.  Everyone wants to be protected at someone else's expense and so we are here.

[mike_belben]

Yeah, liability hot potato.  

[Jeff]

I told the inspector when he said his concern was not for me, but the next guy, I told him I didn't give s rat's _ _ _ about the next guy. When I'm gone, burn it with me in it.

[barbender]

You gave him the the FB Jeff, every inspector's nightmare!😁 I don't know what business they have in hunting shacks and cabins anyhow. Thankfully (for me) Itasca County does not require building inspections. Some of the municipalities within the County do, but as long as you fall under county jurisdiction you are good. The only inspection I had to get was the MN state mandated electrical, and the County sewer inspection when we built our house.

[SawyerTed]

All the parasites appear when real estate changes hands. About the only way around it is to have cash and know what you are buying. Then you can hardly touch the place without more parasites.  Everyone wants to be protected at someone else's expense and so we are here.

Thus most of the building codes, electrical codes etc are driven by the insurance industry.

[Clark]

All the parasites appear when real estate changes hands. About the only way around it is to have cash and know what you are buying. Then you can hardly touch the place without more parasites.  Everyone wants to be protected at someone else's expense and so we are here.

Thus most of the building codes, electrical codes etc are driven by the insurance industry.

Look at SD's example of drain fields. That is driven by the need to protect ground water and human health. That is an example where I feel 3rd party inspection is mandatory because polluted ground water doesn't just disappear and it becomes the problem of the neighbor who's well taps into the same aquifer downstream of the offender.  In the long term, pay an extra $5k for proper drain field/mound system installation is small potatoes compared to health issues that can be caused by fecal coliform.

Clark

[SwampDonkey]

Out in the country where your 1/4 mile of more from one another surrounded by open dry fields, no issues. In a subdivision in or adjacent to town, everyone one on an acre lot, the municipality has passed the buck onto the home owner since they don't want to pony up for water and sewer, but still looking for that $3000 a year tax. I don't think a housing development should be a bunch of wells and drain fields dotted up over a hillside. A health issue in the making.

[Don P]

Which is where zoning laws come into play. 
Lack of density won't keep many from pooping in their own water supply though. The house I'm working on is on acreage, the well and septic are within a step of each other, the drainfield is right there, by the creek and I've found a greywater line to the creek. A new well was drilled sometime later and after that someone cross connected the wells. Some days I just shake my head in wonder.

[SwampDonkey]

Don't assume the 1% of retards are in the same league as level headed rural folk. Government takes one case and blames us all for ignorance and stupidity. ;)

I've see lots of wash water lines on developed land, acre lots, coming out into ditches, that flow into streams and then into the river. Go for a walk on wash day, and smell the Tide and Gain soap. Government ain't making them fix their mess. :

[WV Sawmiller]

  I'll probably get my peepee whacked for political incorrectness but Mike's comment reminded of the Saudization project on-going when I worked there. The country wanted their people working but they wanted them in positions of authority and not actually getting their hands dirty so we would have to hire them as janitorial supervisors even though they had no idea how to wash a window or clean a toilet or to teach others how to do so.

   Another ideal spot was site security because they got to wear a uniform and tell others what to do. The only thing was I might come to work and find the gate locked because the guard heard about a goat grab where they were having a cookout at the other end of the site and locked up and went down to drink mint tea and eat grilled goat and rice off a big tray with his right hand. If I was lucky he had locked the gate - as often as not he just drove or walked off and left the gate open and unsecured.

  For most of us supervisory positions come from experience doing that kind of work but that was not the case there where as soon as a baby is born it is handed off to a foreign maid to raise till it is old enough to become her boss.

  This sounds like the inspector Mike is talking about to me. I am afraid we are raising a whole crop of them here now too.

[Don P]

Don't assume the 1% of retards are in the same league as level headed rural folk. Government takes one case and blames us all for ignorance and stupidity. ;)

If it were 1% or even something under 50%, rural or urban, I'd be happy  :D. There's a whole lotta folks who think they know how things work till it gets down to doing it and then they realize what they know is just the Cliff notes version. That goes for the overseer's as well. That same build official I mentioned was a character. He fancied himself a master builder, architect, engineer and inspector. He also acted in all those capacities on county government jobs. Yup, no oversight needed if you're a god (little g  :). The new guy comes in and the next thing I know one of the projects that was unfinished gets red tagged at the next inspection. An engineer gets called in and being a public project I can pull up his report. Multiple major thinking problems, the roof would have collapsed probably sooner than later and I doubt it would have required a snow load, the guy was certifiable all right.
Usually, not always, but usually. When I hear folks really bucking inspections and then look at what they wanted to do or have done, same thing, rubber room ready, not a wayward trace of thought goin on in their little noggin. None of us likes an overseer, it chafes and rightfully so, but it doesn't take long to see what causes it.
My BIL was a pilot in Saudi when that was going on Howard. They wanted their folks in the left seat mighty bad, till they started running low on planes and folks willing to sit in the right seat  :D 

[SwampDonkey]

Once you start a house job, that's like hitting the green button for the inspectors to be all over the place. I remember when we dug the foundation, the earth moving crew boss man said, to the builder: 'This triggers this, triggers that, and so on down the line.' You'd think it started a war. What a bunch of....... :  We never had any troubles because everyone knew what they was doing and the house was double inspected because, the trades union I'll call it, has to be sure it's done to their spec for the Home Owner Warranty approval. Nothing to do with insurance and nothing to do with government inspections. Just another line of .....  : It's all about the money they can steal through legislation.

[Brob1969]

I've been a general contractor for a good while now; I am also in Florida where the weather can have a detrimental effect on a structure.  Knowing the level of experience and care that some people have, I get that we need codes.
I have also run into situations where I had to do something differently and in a manner inferior to what I would have done had I not been dealing with inspections.  On more than one occasion I have had to educate an inspector on the jobsite; some took it really well as I often do unconventional builds that they've never seen using techniques with which they are unfamiliar.  I have also called an inspector to task and had to show them the proper code and then from then on they tried to find ANYTHING to write up.  I once called the mayor of a small town when a *pithed off inspector failed a final inspection on a county building because my HVAC guy forgot to put a piece of black tape on a white wire; I went to my truck and taped the wire while he was there and he told me "too late" on a Friday afternoon.  The building was to host an event where the mayor was to speak the following afternoon.  The inspector still had beef with me from a year prior when I pointed out the proper code on something he called incorrectly...and by no means was I disrespectful.  It was in black and white and he apparently didn't like being incorrect...

Codes are there for a reason for sure, but they are written by humans, interpreted by other humans, and therefore are far from perfect...

[barbender]

Yeah the codes and inspections aren't bad if the inspector isn't a jerk. To be honest, most I've worked with have been decent people and just trying to do right. 

[Southside]

We installed a 3 phase, 1000 Amp entrance a number of years back, hooked it to a generator so not sure why I really needed a permit and inspection, anyway - when the inspector came he was walking through and commented that he "had never seen anything like this" which of course left me with a bad taste in my mouth that I just paid $100 to give a tour of my place.  Never bothered to pull a permit again when we had to do work there.  

[Wudman]

When I started on my house years ago, I planned to serve as my own general contractor and do much of the work myself.  I called the building inspector and asked him what information he needed to issue the permit.  He listed the items that he needed from me.  I drafted my own plans for the house using  off the shelf software and had my brother in law (who worked for a commercial builder) print them full size for me.

When I went to the office to pull my permit, the building inspector was not there.  His Admin handled the process for me.  She flipped through my documentation and application.  "This is the most complete application and set of plans I have ever seen.  We have contractors through here all the time that don't have this information.  How did you know what we needed?"  My reply, "I called him and asked".  I walked out with my permit.  I had no problems with inspection during the building process.  

Wudman

[metalspinner]

Wudman,
I had a similar experience with my city's Board of Zoning and Appeals. 
My building is way larger than the 600sqft allowed without a Special Exception. So I went before them with full plans, etc. They even invited all of my adjoining neighbor's to the meeting - with a written invitation - to voice their concerns. 
Thankfully, I had all my ducks in a row and everything went well. 

[SawyerTed]

I've found the same thing with building inspectors.  I ask how they want it  then do it exactly their way.  Usually they look and issue the inspection stamp and leave. If I have had something not pass, I call and they tell me exactly what to do. 

Acting dumb and being smart works,  at least for me with building inspectors. 

[Southside]

To follow up on that we learned pretty quickly to leave something not quite obvious, but not horribly hard to find during barracks inspections so the DI would feel successful, bust us, and be on his way.  Take our medicine and get back to work. Always figured they had done the same anyway.  ;D

[Don P]

Well, I doubt this one is from anyone here :D;
They've sent pics of 3 or 4 others since that first one I posted. I guess their new admin is trying to encourage their agencies to keep looking. This one was from MN. I would think they would at least look at a legit stamp before making a rubber stamp. One pic that came through a few weeks ago I wouldn't have given a second glance, it looked legit.



 

[Rybot]

Oooohhh Russian wood...

As far as building codes/inspections go I understand their purpose and I believe they are beneficial in the right place....

As far as public/commercial buildings go I think they are beneficial. I do find comfort in going to work daily in a building that has been built to well established codes and safety guidelines.

In a rental situation (home or apartment) I think codes/inspections are also beneficial. When I rent a place I don't have a home inspection done. I hope that it was built properly by someone else.

In the case of a contractor building a home for a development or an individual customer I think they have their place (keeping the builder accountable).

In the case of an owner builder I have absolutely no use for them. 

If it were up to me codes/permits would be required for all of the above except owner/builder.

I think an owner/builder should be able to build without any permits or code requirements with the condition that they occupy the home for a set period of time immediately following construction (3-5 years) during which they cannot sell it or rent it or any portion of it out. After the "probation period" they could rent/sell it as if it were a permitted structure.

If an owner/builder wanted the option to rent/sell immediately after construction they would have two options 1) get a permit before construction like most of us have to already. 2) have a home inspection performed (much more extensive/expensive than a traditional home inspection) and a "certificate of structural soundness" issued. Keeping in mind that such an inspection could include removing drywall/siding or anything else necessary to allow a thorough inspection.

Rant over.

[Daburner87]

^I agree with that.  But an inspector shouldn't rely on graded lumber stamps alone.  He should be able to look at the lumber used, and be able to judge it right then and there on the spot.  Grading means nothing if you've seen what Home Depot/Lowes sells.

[alan gage]

This one was from MN.

If it's from MN maybe they belong to @barbender 
That's a good idea he had. I'm going to change my counterfeit lumber stamp to say "Made in China" to throw them off my trail.
Alan

[barbender]

Haha no counterfeit lumber stamping is something I haven't gotten into yet😂😂😂

[Southside]

That's a good thing BB, since I am stamping mine with your info, best SYP to ever come out of MN.... :D

[Don P]

You can learn some things by downloading the grading rules and then visiting the lumberyard. It's not what we know, its what we know that just ain't so. What I see generally meets grade... but I roll thru the stack cursing and picking my wood too. 

What many haven't noticed is the species combinations showing up in the big box are changing. What appears to be SPF is often european whitewood species. The european trees are weaker wood in most cases. I've not seen plans yet specifying them and they come in a mind numbing variety of strength values. Most folks, including inspectors, never notice the difference.

Just by the nature of what we require inspectors to do they cannot grade lumber or design things. It would be good if they did know more about grading and wood in general, but don't get me started :D. 

I don't think an uninspected house is necessarily equal or should be allowed a backdoor way in. Simply when it comes time to sell, it is disclosed. 

[handhewn]

I agree Don P.. I went from sawing lumber for many years to becoming one of fewer than one hundred in the nation (late 1980s) certified as a Building inspector, mechanical inspector, electrical inspector, plumbing inspector and combination inspector. Certified by I.C.B.O. and I.A.P.M.O. Having inspected over 10,000 structures, I can say there is some real garbage out there. I see some Hobbit huts in the woods that are superb in every way. I also see some normal looking city structures that look great but are real trash such as the house my son bought from a building inspector who spanned large areas of flooring with 2x4 joists. Because there are thieves AND cheats and good people who don't know construction, not to mention earthquakes, fires etc., we need code requirements. I live in the woods and have a sawmill. I have a cabin way back in the woods. I hate the requirements but they are a necessary evil.

[maple flats]

My thought on this whole topic is that lumber stamps are useless. Just look at what you see in stamped lumber in the big box stores, as a sawyer I'd never put out any product that looks that inferior.
In my state, I can certify my lumber as #2 or better, by submitting a letter so stating it. I agree, the building inspectors should be able to identify inferior lumber by sight and declare it unsuitable, whether it's stamped or not.
What you can get at the big box stores has a lot to do with why I bought a mill in the first place.

[beenthere]

maple flats
What you see stamped in the box stores will indeed meet that grade. Just our perception what that grade should look like is different.
just sayin... after the stack is picked through and we see what is remaining, is for sure the very bottom of the grade, and may even include the 5% allowed that doesn't meet grade. 

[hacknchop]

Try grading on a green chain picking out the #3 's from the #2  not hard to do when your sawing and pilling 2500 ft a day try 50000 ft a shift as it passes you on a chain and you only have time to flip once and decide to pull it or not. Your employer is counting on your ability to help him sell the #2 & btr in order to keep his operation sustainable.

[Ianab]

A lot of it's machine graded now, so "visual" defects don't count. Boards that we might look at and assign to the #3 pile actually rate #2 for strength. Likewise some boards that look almost perfect are mostly weaker juvenile wood, and the machine downgrades them. The grading also doesn't find boards that warp as they dry more on the shelf. 

The graders job then becomes checking the machine is calibrated and working right. If it's too strict, it's tossing #1 in the #2 pile, and #2 into #3, and the mill loses $$. If it's too loose, they will end up getting loads rejected by their buyers because too many boards are below grade. 

[Don P]

Outside of engineered products like trusses I don't see MSR lumber, most is still visually graded. One thing with the machines is the in plant lab is pretty busy breaking samples to confirm that the resource coming in the door is what the machine is dialed in for.

[hacknchop]

Stress grades on dimension lumber are not solely based on strength an example of this is wane edge cannot exceed 1/3 of any face or equivalent 1/2 of any face for 1/4 the length so the wane hardly effects the integrity as far as strength is concerned but it sure take away your nailing edge.Whereas slope of grain can exist in an perfectly full 4 corners no big knots yet if it is 1 in 6 full length its out strength wise wouldn't want it for a stud or a rafter.
Most companies I cannot of course speak for all,but most that Iknow of grade the lumber before it is sent through to be MSR for specific applications . Not all lumber used in trusses for example are MSR sometimes engineers allow #2&BTR for risers also the local Mennonites have a couple of truss shops here and will roll out trusses fabricated out of rough lumber which of course is #2&BTR , usually the engineer that is designing these calls for mainly 2x8 with 2x4 and 2x6 risers , very heavy.

[SwampDonkey]

A lot of it's machine graded now, so "visual" defects don't count.

I know the big Irving mills have been computer graded since the 90's. Their train leaves the mills daily with lumber. I've been in the Chipman mill, mostly sawyers in booths with coffee in hand and feet up in the air watch'n monitors. Might be 4 guys out on the floor supervising the machinery. Pretty much why the sawmills around here never shut down. You're a lot further than 6' from one another all day unless you stick your nose into a saw booth. :D

[Don P]

Stream of consciousness  :D.

For instance a stud is a #3 with #1 edge restrictions. A column doesn't require much bending strength but you gotta have something to nail the drywall to.

MSR, machine stress rated, is simply a set of rollers top and bottom that lumber is fed through flatways. It is checking stiffness. In the lab they have broken multiple pieces to develop a relationship between stiffness and bending strength, E's relationship to Fb. Compression wood is one example where the wood will be unusually stiff but also weaker in bending, that relationship between stiffness and strength is not "normal".  This must be constantly checked and monitored in the lab and on the floor. Also the board isn't reading until it is on the rollers, so the foot or so at each end is not being checked by the machine. Then as hacknchop mentioned some of the restrictions have nothing to do with strength but are related to serviceability..

For typical lightweight trusses, the top and bottom chords experience bending. The web members are in tension or compression. MSR lumber that has been checked for stiffness and bending is not really an advantage in those web members. Column buckling is a function of stiffness but I don't believe they have or use that correlation, yet.