iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

A "Professional" painter RUINED our renovation, now what? Please read....

Started by Piston, July 24, 2013, 09:38:12 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Piston

As some of you know, for a while now I've been remodeling our home.  I've done almost everything myself, from gutting out my kitchen, framing in new windows, adding electric, installing countertops/cabinets, tiling, new tile shower, new exhaust fans, new insulation, drywall blah blah blah the list goes on and on, you know how it is! 

Well, after all this hard work, I have decided that I'm getting sick of working on my house, and would rather spend time with my new baby boy, than sand joint compound and paint the interior.  So, for probably the first time in my life, I actually HIRED someone to do some house work for me  :D 

In fact, my wife hired someone.  She really wanted the painting done and I just don't have time.  She went out of her way to find a reputable painter, get quotes, and even checked up on his reputation with the local Ben Moore dealer.  After receiving his quote we agreed to have him do the job.  My wife wrote him a check for half the amount, as it stated in the quote, and he scheduled a time to do the job. 

When he came to the house to give us a quote, I explained to him that I wanted the wood trim sanded down (due to the varnish on the wood would make the paint peel) then primed and painted.  He had no issues about this and ensured he would sand it down, and fill in any small holes or surface imperfections.  Excellent!  We were as excited as could be when he left.  I was so happy that I would go away to work, while away from home, my house would be painted, the new furniture would arrive, and I would come home to all this work DONE!  I figured I'd relax and spend some time with my boy, while admiring the fresh look of the downstairs (Living room, dining room, spare room/play room), and hallway (where there was a LOT of trim work to do). 

Before I went away to work, I took all the fixtures off the walls, removed the trim rings from the ceiling fans, peeled off the wallpaper border we had in the dining room (around a chair rail), and removed the furniture from the living room.  We emptied out a large built in hutch we have where we store all my wifes China and some liquor.  The only thing I didn't do, was remove the cabinet doors from the hutch, and remove the outlet covers (I didn't want my 11 month old boy crawling around and electrocuting himself on the open outlets.)

A little time passed, and we hadn't heard from him, she contacted him and he replied that he was behind due to rain, I can understand that.  No problem.  He showed up 3 days ago to start. 

The first day seemed fine, my wife was home, I'm at work, and she left with the baby for the day to avoid the paint fumes.  She came home and took some pictures.  She sent them to me, and I thought sure, it looks fine so far, it was just primer at this point so I didn't expect much.  Although, she sent me some pictures of the ceiling and they looked great.  I was pretty happy this was getting done, and I wasn't the one doing it (I hate painting ;D).  I did notice that the primer looked pretty thin in some spots (it appears they sprayed a lot) but I thought that's fine, they'll get it on the second coat. 

The next day they showed up to paint, again my wife left for most of the day.  She came home later on, took some pictures, and sent them to me.  I looked at the picture of the living room and thought it looked great!  So much different, so much better.  Then I looked at the pictures of the dining room (these are all cell phone pictures so not great).  I wasn't impressed with the dining room, but I thought no big deal, he still has another day of painting.  Well, i noticed in one of the pictures that the outlet covers were still on the wall??? I thought that was strange, maybe they removed them, painted them, and installed them again.  NOPE!  My wife looked and noticed they painted AROUND The outlet covers.  They didn't even remove them.  They also painted over the hinges on the cabinets in the hutch??

On the hutch, there are cabinet doors, they sprayed the cabinet doors without even opening them, so now, when you open them, you see the wood that wasn't painted!  ARGH! 

She was now noticing a LOT of mistakes.  Missed spots, dried drops of paint, poor coverage, holes in the walls etc. 

Okay day three, she was now LIVID!  She sent me pictures of the horrible job they did.  When I say horrible, I mean that when you see the pictures, it reminds you of one of those OLD houses that have been used as a frat rental house for years, and just painted everything over.  Even the metal track on the hutch sliding doors was painted over. 

He never sanded anything, none of the trim.  2 hours after he left as the paint dried, it already started chipping off the varnished trim work. 


I've spent SO much time working hard on this house.  It's not a million dollar 5,000 square foot home, it's nothing special, but it's my home!  I take great pride in the work I do, and up until now, it shows.  Sure it takes me a long time, but I really CARE about the outcome and I like the way things turned out, if I don't, I redo them. 

Now, we all know that a LOT of work goes into a home, and about 95% of the work is hidden behind the paint.  So the paint can make or break a home.  It BROKE my home!  I don't know what to do. 

The only option I see is that I will have to either replace ALL the trim, or remove all the trim, run it through a planer, reinstall, then prime and paint it. 

This guy absolutely RUINED all the hard work I have done up until this point.  I don't know what I was thinking, I never should have let anyone else in my home.  I should have finished the job I started. 

What do I do? 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

beenthere

Piston
Sorry to hear that, but I could relate to the same scenario... every time someone was hired and paid well to do a "professional" job. Only way to get it done right is do it yourself.
I swear, the last painter couldn't see, or couldn't focus on what he was painting. He rolled paint on from a bucket and the chunks (maybe old dried paint) from the bucket were rolled right onto the ceilings and walls. Stain around the new window trim was put on with a brush, no taping, and when I asked about taping, he said "you can get it off easy with a razor blade" .  Now, my BP is going up and this was 12 years ago.
Very rare to get someone to do as good as you can do yourself. And especially have to watch them like a hawk, and NEVER leave them alone (I know, not possible in your case, but...... ).
Hopefully all of your requests were spelled out in the contract. Until it is done, don't pay the final payment. Yet you don't want this guy back in your house, so you are likely stuck.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

clww

That's awful! First thing I would NOT do is pay the second half. >:( >:( >:(
I'd want to go over the entire project with the painter, on site and in person, to get his explanation
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

Leigh Family Farm

+1 on withholding the final payment. Have him come over and walkthrough the house. Have your contract in hand, especially if it states the "sanding of trim before priming" portion. If he balks at fixing the problems, file with the BBB, report him to Benjamin Moore, and keep the money.

Before you fix anything, take pictures of everything that is wrong or needs fixing. I would hate for this to go to court, but good accurate photos will be what saves you. Also, get another painter to come in and assess the problems.

As in all industries, not all people are bad and its the bad ones that hurt everyone else. My Uncle is a painter and he does a final walk through with every customer to make sure its the way the customer wants it. I'm sorry to hear that you are having problems with the painter and I hope everything works out for you in the end.
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

Piston

Well,
Who knows how this is going to turn out.  I sent him an email stating that we needed to talk, and that I put a stop payment on the deposit check (he didn't cash it yet) until I can get home next week and look over the job myself.  He immediately replied, don't bother calling, I'm going to small claims court in the morning....


My wife has taken quite a few pictures of the work.  She said that when he was on the second coat of paint, on the second day of work, she asked him if he painted behind the outlet covers and he said he had not, that he painted around them.  She said in a polite way that we weren't going to be using the same outlet covers so maybe it would be best to remove them and paint behind them, in case the other outlet covers were slightly smaller.  (she did this after I noticed in the pictures that they were still on)
His reply was "All of them?"   ??? 

There are just so many things wrong with the outcome.  I spoke with my wife this morning and was asking her questions about what he did, she was explaining how in one spot, when you open the basement door, there is a completely missed section that is still bare wood, that obviously you notice right away.  On top of that, he also actually PAINTED the brand new tile behind the basement door, as if it was some sort of transition piece or something.  Yup, he PAINTED the tile???

As upset as I am over this, I sent him an email reply, and I stated very nicely that I prefer to settle this professionally and respectfully like mature adults.  I explained to him that we were very excited to have this work done, that we looked at past projects he did (drive by's of exterior paint jobs he did) and got a recommendation from another person for him.  I looked at his website and was impressed by the photos on his site.  I told him that I truly believe you are a good painter, and you do professional work, but I think there is some reason you rushed through this job and did a less than satisfactory job.  I also asked if he was personally satisfied with the way it turned out, and the way he left it.  I asked him if he was confident enough in a job well done at my house, that he would use the photos of the finished job as advertising photos on his website.  So far no reply.

I'm being VERY understanding and open to reasons why he did not do a good job.  I'm a very understanding person and I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, and listen to their side of the story before trying to make a decision.  I really wanted to just talk to this guy to see what his reasons were, but his immediate reply of going to small claims court, was rather surprising, almost as if he has been through this many times before. 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Piston

You know, the absolute WORST part about this entire situation, is that my wife tried so hard to have this done, to make the house look nicer, to give me a break, and to make me happy when I get home by walking into a nicely painted interior.  She was SO proud of herself for finding someone that we both seemed to really like.  She knows that I'm very hesitant to hire anyone to do anything, and obviously for good reason. 

We are having my sons 1 year birthday party in a couple weeks and she was so happy that the house will look really nice for people that are coming over, she really takes a lot of pride in having the house always spot less and looking good, and now with the 'new paint' she was even more happy about how good it would look.  So, the worst part is that she is now embarrassed about how the job turned out, and she feels horrible and that it was all her fault for now having this disaster on our hands.  She knows this is going to end up being 10 times more work for me and cost a lot more than the cost of the paint job to fix.  She feels so bad that she "did this to us", despite the fact that I've been very supportive that none of this is her fault and there was no way to know.  I just feel bad now at this point that she is so upset over it.  It's really like a kick in the face to her as she deserved all the credit for actually getting it done, and now she feels horrible about getting all the 'credit'. 
I don't really care about the paint as much, and all the work I'll now have to do, and all the money I'll have to spend, and the fact that this was a huge set back for our remodel (okay, I do care, but not as much as) but what I really care about is that she feels so bad about it, and is now so upset. 

I guess I'll be going to court over this.  I have NO idea what that means or how it works, I've never been in any sort of situation like this before in my life. 

Oh, and on top of this, she told me this morning that there is overspray (from when they sprayed) on some of our furniture that they didn't cover.  A lot of our furniture is "primitive country" style and not very cheap!  I assume that a good scrubbing with soap and water will be able to get this off, but still, it's just so much more work.  ARGH. 

Thanks for listening to me vent  :D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

beenthere

I'd only suggest you not do your communication through email, without the hard copy of the complete situation including backup pics, and only send that copy to your painter.
Document, document, and more document. Rants won't do it. Copies of documents with dates will work much better in small claims court for sure.
Hopefully the contract you both signed is clear about what was expected, and that the documents and pics taken and included show that it didn't happen. Then you have a leg to stand on.

If not, then I'd suggest suck it up, pay the money and move on to enjoy as much of the re-paint job as possible. Not worth the frustration already caused and maybe not worth the refinishing you think you will need to meet your expectations. Maybe just move on, give the wife a hug, and not make an issue of it anymore. And certainly don't blame you for being upset. Make it out like it was just "spilled milk" and move on. Be happy.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Piston

I looked over the agreement we had, we didn't have an actual contract that we signed, so it may be that we're out of luck with that, I suppose I should have had a signed contract from him. 

In the email agreement we made, it states that the surface will be prepared for paint, but doesn't specify that it will be sanded, that was purely a verbal agreement which would just be his word against mine. 

Beenthere,
What you said about just moving on, and enjoying the new paint job after I'm done with it and making it a positive experience, is almost exactly what I told my wife.  Although, I didn't mention the part about just paying the guy, but aside from that, we're trying to just be positive about it.  I know a bad paint job isn't the end of the world, and I know in the grand scheme of things it's not even that big of a deal, just a big set back to our renovations that will cost us some money, so it's not like I'm looking at this from an "end of the world" standpoint  :D

Keep in mind too, that this is only my side of the story, who knows, maybe the painter is on a forum complaining about us as customers  :D  I do try to think of things as if I was in "his shoes", but even still, looking at the pictures it's just hard to see how anyone can expect to be paid for such shoddy work. 
I'm not kidding when I say that if we hired a few college kids to paint it would have come out better.   She's had a few people visit and they have all agreed that it looks worse than it did before, unfortunately. 

Which brings me to what to do?  Should I sand the trim right where it is, or do you think it would be easier in the long run if I remove it, and put it through the planer to take a 1/16" off it or so, and just expose the nice wood again?  I could reinstall it and then either stain it or varnish it again, or prime and paint it. 

I just think that sanding it place would be SO tedious and take even longer.  I've never used one of those small detail sanders before though so maybe that would make it easier. 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

beenthere

How about a good pic of the trim that you are talking about needing re-done?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Piston

-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Jim_Rogers

Do not pay him a thing.

If he takes you to court, go, and tell your side of the story. If he files then it will be a minimum of 4 to 6 weeks to be heard. And he'll have to take a day off of work to be there. If he doesn't show, the case is dropped. If you don't show, he wins automatically, so show up.

Whatever you have as evidence to give to the Judge (court officer, as it maybe a clerk magistrate) have a copy to give him as well. It is required that you have a copy for him. If he gives anything to the Judge (clerk magistrate) (documents- pictures) and he doesn't have a copy for you. Then don't speak to him, ask the Judge (clerk magistrate): "isn't he suppose to have a copy for me as well?" This will make him look bad. And you look good, like you know the rules and he doesn't.

If the Judge (clerk magistrate) says that you can get a copy from the court, then say: "yes, I'd like a copy." Just so you can see if it's something you already have or not. He may try and slip something in that you didn't see or know about. Even if you have to pay the court system for the copies, get them.

If you need to re-do everything then get new cost estimates for the job. If he files against you, then you file against him for this amount. As his shoddy work caused you this amount.

Keep venting and keep telling your wife it's not her fault.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Holmes

  So  sorry to hear your whoas but it sounds like your wife hired the same outfit my wife hired 10 years ago.  and for the same reasons , so I would not have to do all the painting.  White house being repainted white with over spray on the Roof, all the new windows and doors, and the 150 year old granite foundation stones.
   Sounds to me like you used an excellent approach with  the painter asking if he was satisfied with outcome of the job and if he would use your job for advertising.
Was the person you talked to and hired actually working on the job or was it just his help?   I feel your pain... Dana
Think like a farmer.

Piston

This first picture was taken less than 3 hours after he left, and it already had a chip.  You can see the old paint beneath the new paint.  This is the side trim of a doorway, which we asked him to sand down and prime and paint, so this wouldn't happen.  You can tell by the sharp edges of the old paint (under the new, near the bottom) that there is absolutely no sanding that has been done, even if he lightly sanded it you would see where it was "feathered" in.
 



This second picture, is a pic of the two sliding glass "doors" that are in the upper part of the hutch.  This pic was taken after the second day, after they left, and my wife starting noticing the poor work.  They actually didn't even take these doors down, my wife did, when she noticed that the never even painted the backside of them.  So in other words, looking straight on at the built in hutch, it would appear that the glass doors were painted, but if you look behind them, you could still see bear wood. 
She had to point this out to them on the third day in order to get them to paint the backside.

Another thing they did that was similar, is we have two cabinet doors, and some drawers, in the lower portion of that same hutch, and when the sprayed the paint, then didn't even open the cabinets or drawers, so then when she opened the cabinets, and drawers, she noticed that you could see all the bare wood behind, like where it closes onto.  I do have pictures of this too, however after she told them about it they fixed it, and painted it.  I was surprised she had to tell them to do this.



  
This third pic shows the general quality of the paint job around the outlets.  This was taken after they "finished" the job, you can see how they weren't very careful to cover the area around the outlet.  This was done AFTER my wife had to tell them to remove the outlet covers.  You can also see the thin paint coverage and pretty easily see the brush strokes, even in this lower quality cell phon pic.




  
Here is the tile floor, that I finished installing a couple months ago.  It appears that they put paper down and taped at the bottom of the door, but didn't bother to stop the overspray behind the door.  This is the basement door going from the kitchen to the basement, so when you open the door, you now see all this overspray.  I'm glad I haven't put the final trim piece for the threshold in yet or the overspray would have been all over that as well.  I'm sure I'll be able to clean this paint off the tile though. 




 
Here is another "finished" picture.  Why the huge missed spot around the door hinge you ask??? I'm not so sure myself  :D  Again, this trim was supposed to be "prepared" for the paint, by sanding and filling in the imperfections.  Does it look like it was to you?  This is how they left it, with that huge missing spot of paint.  I can see them not taking the door hinges off to paint under them, that's fine, but at least cut in up to the hinge. 

My wife is taking a lot of pictures with the DSLR camera which will show a lot more detail than these cell phone pictures. 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Piston

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on July 25, 2013, 06:04:26 PM
Do not pay him a thing.

If he takes you to court, go, and tell your side of the story. If he files then it will be a minimum of 4 to 6 weeks to be heard. And he'll have to take a day off of work to be there. If he doesn't show, the case is dropped. If you don't show, he wins automatically, so show up.

Whatever you have as evidence to give to the Judge (court officer, as it maybe a clerk magistrate) have a copy to give him as well. It is required that you have a copy for him. If he gives anything to the Judge (clerk magistrate) (documents- pictures) and he doesn't have a copy for you. Then don't speak to him, ask the Judge (clerk magistrate): "isn't he suppose to have a copy for me as well?" This will make him look bad. And you look good, like you know the rules and he doesn't.

If the Judge (clerk magistrate) says that you can get a copy from the court, then say: "yes, I'd like a copy." Just so you can see if it's something you already have or not. He may try and slip something in that you didn't see or know about. Even if you have to pay the court system for the copies, get them.

If you need to re-do everything then get new cost estimates for the job. If he files against you, then you file against him for this amount. As his shoddy work caused you this amount.

Keep venting and keep telling your wife it's not her fault.

Jim Rogers

Thanks for your thoughts Jim, there is some helpful information in here.  I have never been to a court house so I'm not really sure what to expect with this.  Am I supposed to get a lawyer to represent me if he takes me to court? 


Quote from: Holmes on July 25, 2013, 06:10:25 PM
  So  sorry to hear your whoas but it sounds like your wife hired the same outfit my wife hired 10 years ago.  and for the same reasons , so I would not have to do all the painting.  White house being repainted white with over spray on the Roof, all the new windows and doors, and the 150 year old granite foundation stones.
   Sounds to me like you used an excellent approach with  the painter asking if he was satisfied with outcome of the job and if he would use your job for advertising.
Was the person you talked to and hired actually working on the job or was it just his help?   I feel your pain... Dana

Dana,
The guy that came for the quote was the owner of the business, and he came to do the job along with two other gentlemen.  He was actually a really nice man and I really liked him from the short encounter we had.  Even while he was there and my wife asked him to fix some mistakes, he was never rude or conflicting from what she said. 
She did not know the two workers and couldn't talk to them because they didn't speak or understand english. 

It sounds like you had it worse than me Dana, especially the paint on the roof and the granite slabs!  Also, you have a very nice historically accurate home whereas I just have an old house  :D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Jim_Rogers

I'm not going to tell you to not get a lawyer, but I didn't.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Piston

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on July 25, 2013, 07:37:18 PM
I'm not going to tell you to not get a lawyer, but I didn't.

Jim Rogers

I just didn't know if I "have" to have a lawyer.  I just thought when you went to court you needed one?  As you can see, I'm gonna have to do some reading up on this whole legal thing  :D

I got this email from my wife, I'll copy and paste it below.  She is talking about a conversation she had with him when she asked when he was going to start, and he was explaining why he was delayed another day.  We gave this guy the benefit of the doubt, but it turns out this was a huge red flag that we didn't heed to. 



QuoteHe also asked me if he could come late on Wednesday bc his other customer was withholding $3000 from him bc he was not satisfied with the work. He was telling me that his customer was crazy and he did a good job. So he needed to go to this guys house and do some more work so he can get paid.
Guess we're not the only ones....
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Ljohnsaw

Out west here in California, Small Claims court is limited to $5,000.  Also, you can NOT have a lawyer. 

We had a dispute a lifetime ago about a mare (friend/business partner had a stallion) that we wanted to sell off because it was not working out.  We had a strong contract (her father wrote it) and a "verbal agreement" about dispersal.  The judge commended on the quality of the contract and it was clear to him we were right in our request to sell.  Also, a verbal contract is binding (out here).  Lots of pictures do the trick.  Also, keep a cool head in court.  If the painter starts to rant and rage, he will loose.  Judges hate that stuff.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Leigh Family Farm

Piston,
In this situation, I would not get a lawyer, but this is just my opinion so do what you feel is proper. The evidence seems pretty cut and dry. You hired him to paint, he painted poorly, you with held the money until he fixed the problem, and he wants to take you to claims court over it.

Step 1: Carefully document the whole interaction between you and the painter. Write it down as if your were telling a story to your son. Leave nothing out. Try to remember on what day you agreed to the sanding and the prepping. What conversations were done over email, phone, text? What were those conversations? Make sure this story is accurate and explains clearly the agreement between you and the painter.

Step 2: Photograph all of the painting done, both the good and the bad. Pretend its a crime scene so take a lot of pictures. Put a ruler in some of the pictures to show the extent of the over spray or bad brush strokes. Focus on the furniture, especially since judges tend to be old and like old things. Get estimates on all the repairs to your tile, furniture, bad painting, everything. Details these costs alongside the photos and have multiple quotes. 

Step 3: Make a nice neat little package for the judge. Part One is the story. Part Two is the photos. Part Three is the email your wife received from him about the other client and any other evidence you can show that he did a bad job. Part Four is the conclusion of what you will accept as judgement (i.e. him to fix the problem, you keep your money, repayment for damages to furniture, walk-away with no payment or repair done by either party, etc.) and a good solution to the problems.

Step 4: Like Jim said, have a copy for you, a copy for the judge, and a copy for him. Call the court house and ask to speak to someone in the section that deals with these types of cases. Go to the court house and speak with them. A friendly face and a smile go a real long way in getting things done in a courthouse. Ask them what you need to do to prepare for court in a case like yours. Explain that you have never been to a courthouse before, in other words play dumb/innocent but be polite. Dress neatly! Shirt tucked in, hair combed, collared shirt, turn off your cell phone, etc. Ask for other people that you can talk to about your issue.

Step 5: Query the Better Business Bureau for any claims or filings against the painter. Search the web for any information on him as well (past clients, other painters who know him, etc.). Gather information about him from open sources (Facebook, Twitter, Google, Bing, forums...whatever). Why you ask? Because your wife already got an email about shoddy work so there is bound to be more. The more you can show that the painter does not live up to his end of prior contracts, the easier it is for the judge to rule in your favor.

I hope this helps, and if you have any questions just PM me or ask away.
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

thecfarm

Piston,good luck to ya. Sounds like the guy filed first to try to make you look bad. ::)
This would be a question for others,is small claims court open to the public? If so you could go and watch how to do it,or not do it. Might help you out. Hind sight is 20/20 by the way.  ;)
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Holmes

 Your statement that your wife could not talk to the other 2 painters because they do not speak english is very telling.  Maybe the owner can't communicate with them well either.  If push comes to shove ask the owner for names and addresses of the workers so they can be interviewed  for the court case.  Every body says they are a painter just to get work, not many of them are.. From my more recent experiences the painters and tile people are the most under educated trades, meaning they have jobs they have not learned to do properly.  And the lack of common sense is amazing. :o
Think like a farmer.

Jim_Rogers

My local court house will not allow cell phones into the building, so don't even try to take one in. Leave it in the truck/car.

You can get papers to file at the small claims court office. Also, when there get a copy of the fees. In MA the more you file for the more it costs. I don't have a current copy on hand, so I can't tell you the fees.

I doubt he has or will file against you. It was probably just a bluff to try and put some pressure on you.

You can go and watch if you want, to see how things work. The hearings are open to the public.

Jim Rogers

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

WH_Conley

About the same thing happened to a friend of mine a couple of years back. He withheld the balance due and notified the contractor. The contractor filed a "mechanics lien" against him. That amounted to the contractor had 1 year to take him to court. They both lawyered up and nothing happened. The contractor lost future business. He found out the publicity did not help. It was some very shoddy work as well.
Bill

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: Piston on July 25, 2013, 04:24:04 PM
I looked over the agreement we had, we didn't have an actual contract that we signed, so it may be that we're out of luck with that, I suppose I should have had a signed contract from him. 

I'm no lawyer, but if you and the contractor didn't sign a contract, then it would seem to me that he doesn't have a leg to stand on. Anyone else have thoughts on this?
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

doctorb

Piston-

I am sorry for your increased gastric acid production.  From reading this thread it is certainly understandable.

My only advice in things like this is to realize that....

1.  It can be undone and needs to be.

2.  The most important thing here is the final product, and I would work tirelessly to get the job done right by whatever means possible.  Save your documentation of this shoddy job.

3.  While the natural instinct is to take your "pound of flesh" from this clown, it's probably not worth your time and effort to do so.  Don't pay him a dime.  File a grievance with the offices already discussed here.  Call the guy who sold you the paint, make him come over and have a look, and tell him to never reccommend this guy again to anyone.  Get on "Craig's List" or wherever you can file a public complaint and do so. 

4.  Then enjoy your beautiful home and try not to think about him ever again.  Life's too short.

Just my thoughts.  Good Luck
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

giant splinter

Piston,
The best solution may be to take to take all your paperwork and photos to the contractors state license board and begin with a consultation with one of the state license agents, he will inform you of the proper methods and your options as to handle this contractor and assist you with the correct forms and paperwork. All states are different and you must deal with this properly and get your ducks in a row so that if and when you need to show up in court you will be prepared with a positive argument.
Once you are informed in how to proceed and follow up with your complaint through the licensing board you will be on your way to getting things corrected in the proper manner, with all the rules of engagement being followed.
I am not sure how this all plays out where you live though I suspect the process may not vary all that much, you stated he did not present you with a contract and that he asked for a fairly large amount of money up front, was late getting started and then proceeded with total disregard for your oral agreement that was mutually accepted.
Just a few thoughts,

The state license board is typically part of the department of consumer affairs ... and is there to help you get thing like this taken care of

Did you check to see if he was licensed ... this may be available online

Does he carry a bond ... required by most states, is he insured for contractual liability and completed projects

Did he request more than 10%  above the cost of what he would have needed for materials up front ... this might be regulated by laws

The contractors license board can give you valuable information of his background and let you know if he has been following all the rules or has a record of complaints and or has experienced a ( cause for disciplinary action ) , suspension or revocation in the past.

I think it is important to find out everything you can about him and then start with the licensing departments ... State, City/County and then go to the controlling authority with your complaint, you probably cant have a lawyer represent you in small claims court but you can sure get one to ghost a letter or even coach you on your argument prior to your court date.

I hope you get this situation squared away and taken care of in a proper manner, your home is one of the most important things you have and getting up to your wife's standards is a top priority. ( you get control of your workshop ) ;D ......  I'm sure everyone here is hoping for the best outcome on this one.





roll with it

Thank You Sponsors!