Establishing a New Pine Plantation

[WDH]

Ian, when the stand gets opened up with the first thinning, I have it thinned heavier than most Foresters.  I believe that most Foresters do not take out enough trees at first thinning.  A more aggressive thinning results in faster growth and larger diameter crop trees.  The extra light on the forest floor gives rise to more grass, weeds, forbs, and hardwood sprouts.  This becomes great forage and food for the birds and animals.  Repeated burning keeps the hardwood sprouts in check and lets the nutritous weeds/forbes have a chance.  Otherwise, around here, it would become a two level stand.  Pine overstory and dense sweetgum understory with poor food production for the wildlife.  The wildlife value is important to us too.

Curdog, the 6x12 spacing is 605 trees per acre.  I could have gone less, but that stocking is a hedge against mortality if we get spring and summer drought in the first year which happens here sometimes.  Since loblolly competes for dominance and will not stagnate, even it all the trees survive, the stand still stays healthy and will not stagnate.  The trees planted in the beginning of this thread in 2009 were planted at the same spacing, and you can see from the last pics, that the stand is still vigorous after the first nine years.  I actually intended to plant 500 trees per acre this time, but I underestimated the plantable acres so I had extra trees, so I decided to plant at 605 per acre.  With the 12 foot spacing between rows, when the first thinning takes place and a row is cut for access in the thinning, this width allows plenty of room for the fellerbuncher and skidders to operate with out damage to the residual stems.

Native, the piles were from debris at the loading deck.  I actually did contract for a mulcher to mulch the other slash and debris on the site, that is one reason the site looks so clean.  This is not normally done here in production forestry because of cost, but I did it because this stand is right in front of my house, and we want it to look nice, so I spent more $ on the preparation in order to get the aesthetics which was more important to us than the extra $150/acre that it cost to mulch  .  There is a vibrant pulp market here.  Georgia harvests more timber than any other state and also has the most pulp production of any other state.  This is prime tree growing country.  On my last harvest, I received $12/ton for the pine pulpwood. 

Teak, I babied the original stand for 30 years.  Thinned in 2000 and 2010, pruned in 2000 to 18' (by me), and fetrtilized with ammonium nitrate and DAP in the summer of 2000.  Controlled burned 5 times after the first thinning.  I have not gone to this level of management and expense on my other plantations as the aesthetic value for them is not important to us. 

[mike_belben]

Question for ya, would you say this stand was still profitable for you with the added care?  Did the proceeds cover the expenses, taxes and your time at say min wage?    Not trying to prove any points, just wondering if the market prices have kept pace with the other rising prices of land use.

[VirginiaFarm]

Question for ya, would you say this stand was still profitable for you with the added care?  Did the proceeds cover the expenses, taxes and your time at say min wage?    Not trying to prove any points, just wondering if the market prices have kept pace with the other rising prices of land use.

Ditto to Mike's question... Can small-scale TSI and management actually realize measurable value beyond aesthetics? I think you've done a beautiful and thorough job with your woods. I just hope that financial incentives can encourage proper timber management on smaller stands elsewhere.

[nativewolf]

Economics for WDH are going to be different than almost everyone in the US outside of that Pulp mill best that has survived down there.  I did quite a bit of work with RMS years ago and that timber belt that extends from GA into SC and down into AL is to be envied.  $12/ton for pulp, pretty cool.

I am a bit surprised that you are not seeing the CTL machine harvesting and that the landing sites had such large slash piles. 

Glad to see you mulched and glad to see you burning so much.  We have a property that we burn every other year.  Great aesthetics. 

Can not agree with you enough re thinning and planting density.  Fewer trees per acre is more profitable and better optionality as the diameter increase presents merchandizing options that height growth does not offer.  Models made that clear 30 years ago but the foresters still over plant and under thin.  Not sure why...

[Bay Beagle]

Read this thread from the start ..... very impressive with tons of education. One thing to drive by a plantation, and watch it grow, but another to see it unfold, and the planning and labor that was involved, with the results.  Thanks for sharing.   

[Wudman]

I'll throw in one more take.  I'm about 500 miles northeast of WDH in Southern Virginia.  I'm on the northern and western fringe of the native range of loblolly but it has been naturalized and planted extensively throughout Central Virginia.  Plus, we have one more dog that must be considered........ice.

On the investment side, we are very good at silviculture and growing trees.  We are very good at modeling growth.  We are absolutely horrible at projecting prices 25 years in the future.  Nobody saw the crash of 2008 coming.  If we did, we would have clearcut the world.  Back around 2000, I was selling woods run pine logs (28 year old plantation wood - 10" butt to a 6" top tree length) around $42.00 / ton on the stump.  We could pull some grade out of older stands with stumpage around $72.00 per ton.  The pole market was strong with stumpage in the upper $70s.  Plylogs were netting about $60.00 / ton on the stump.  In today's market, I have a hard time giving a small log away.  Most of them are ending up in the pulp sort and going to the OSB market.  They have tightened up on the spec on the woods run log sort to either a 7 or 8 inch top depending on market.  That wood is bringing $19 - $21 / ton on the stump.  The last tract of plylogs I moved netted $21.50.  Our pulp mill at Covington, VA was owned by Westvaco.  It is now owned by WestRock.  Our pulpmill at Hopewell, VA was owned by Stone Container.  It is now owned by WestRock.  Our pulpmill at West Point, VA was owned by Chesapeake.  It is now owned by WestRock.  Our pulpmill at Roanoke Rapids, NC was owned by Champion.  As of yesterday, it was announced that it is being bought by WestRock.  See a pattern here?  The pulpmill in Ashland, VA owned by Bear Island Paper (newsprint) has been shutdown.  On the bright side, the pellet market (mostly Enviva) is pretty strong, but with this consolidation I'll be dealing with WestRock and International Paper on the fiber side......pretty disheartening.......but back to silviculture.

I am in the camp that we plant too many trees.  Historically, we planted 622 per acre.  We dropped that about 10 years ago to 545 per acre.  My pay grade (and title) has made it to the point that I make a few decisions these days.  I planted some high end genetics last year at 400 per acre including some containerized stock.  I believe that is where we need to be. It used to be that you planted them thick so that they would prune.  You were worried about survival.  Genetics and herbicides fixed that.  We can grow trees today with no limbs (well small ones anyway).  Crowns are very compact.  Herbicides do an excellent job of controlling competition and we are routinely fertilizing stands.  Our first year survival rates hover around 96%.  Throw in a few wildlings and stocking is not an issue.  However, the last year has thrown us a curveball.  For years, we have pushed stands to put on diameter and volume.  Now, one of my primary customers, an LVL plant, has gone to stress grading veneers.  They pulled three loads off of one of my contracts and ran them through their grading process.  The 9, 10, 11, and 12" diameter trees met their grading criteria.  The 13, 14, 15, and 16" class did not.  Do to rapid growth, they didn't have the strength characteristics that they wanted.  That could present a bit of an issue for me.  Long term, genetics will address that issue.  The question is; what do I do with the plantations that are maturing now? 

As for thinning, we are normally making a first entry around age 14.  I'll thin to a basal area of 80-85 square feet leaving 220 - 240 stems per acre.  We are leaving this level of stocking due to potential ice damage.  More trees provide better lateral support for their neighbors.  They stand up to ice loading better.  I would fare to guess that WDH is thinning to 60 square feet of basal area with stocking down around 150 - 160 trees per acre.  Am I anywhere close?  I'll make a second entry around age 19-20 taking the stand back to 80 square feet of basal area leaving 140 or so trees per acre.  We will carry it to rotation (25 to 28 years old depending on market).  The stand would be fertilized following each of the two thinnings and evaluated for understory control if needed.

As for pricing, we couldn't survive on nothing but $12.00 / ton pulpwood.  Our economist are still projecting recovery in our sawtimber markets.  Investment models (and returns) are based on producing higher value products.   I look forward to the day.  Klausner Lumber has a new mill still idle in Enfield, NC.  I was completed a couple of years ago, but has yet to run any production.  I believe it was $120 million dollar investment projected to saw 360 Million feet per year.  Anybody want to buy a mill?  We could use it.

Wudman   

[mike_belben]

Great thread.  Thanks for sharing guys.

[Ianab]

Locally we plant densely, then thin hard. The seedlings are relatively cheap, so a dense initial stocking helps keep the weeds down and encourages the trees to grow taller. Once the lift pruning is done and the canopy has closed in again they go in and thin to waste to the final stocking. The denser initial stocking gives more choice of good trees in the thinning process. Keep the best, drop the rest.

Low pulp prices and difficult access mean it's not economic to harvest the thinnings, and they are left to rot. Most valuable is the clear pruned saw logs, with lower grade saw and pulp logs from further up the trees, and the whole plantation is clear cut once mature. 25-30 years.

[SwampDonkey]

Here is our current market in my area.

https://www.cvwpa.ca/products

[curdog]

This is some good info, I agree about the less dense stands and the benefits of site prep. But most of the landowners I work with are not going to spend the money on site prep. So I'm trying to balance a spacing that is wide enough for increased growth and tight enough to choke out Virginia pine, that plagues so many of our cutovers. I'd rather have sweetgum instead of Virginia pine,  at least i could release it with herbicide if needed. Ive been planting on a 10x10,  for 435 tpa , but I like the idea of adjusting to a wider row for easier equipment access and tightening the space between trees,  to keep  roughly the same tpa....

Most of my survival counts give me 90-95% survival after the first growing season , and even during years with bad drought we had low survival only on tracts that were logged in wet weather and there was a lot of soil compaction issues. The tracts without compaction pulled though,  but compaction and drought plus kinda large seedlings was too much to overcome that year.

[Wudman]

I fight with Virginia Pine throughout my operating area.  In my opinion, if you are not going to control it on the front end, I wouldn't bother planting a tract.  My preference is a drip torch.  As you said, you can control the hardwood at a later time. 

I am going to do some early season chemical pine control trials this year.  I plan to look at Krenite, Accord / Detail, and Garlon XRT.  The product will be applied just after the pines break dormancy, but before hardwood leaf out.  We will apply by skidder at 50 Gallons per acre total mix.  The shielding effect from hardwood after leaf out, prevents coverage of the wilding pine.  I have a doghair tract that will put it to the test.

To compare some numbers, a glyphosate / imazypyr site prep tank mix will cost in the neighborhood of $60.00 per applied acre.  A pre-commercial thinning costs me more than twice that.  Looking at it from an investment standpoint, chemical site prep is the most cost effective (but wild pine is tough to control).  I know your pain on trying to sell the right thing to a landowner.

As for thinning, I normally have my operators run at a 45 degree angle to rows.  I don't like those wide take out rows when you run with the rows.  That's just my personal preference, and there are some other benefits to wide row spacing.

Wudman 

[caveman]

Even as a non-forester this is an interesting thread to me.  Danny, do you have any idea why the root rot was so pervasive?  Is there a benefit to using the hoedad or dibble bar over a mechanical tree planter? 

My neighbor just cut 110 acres pretty hard.  I wish she would sell it to me at a reasonable cost so that I could manage it.  Some of the best longleaf I've seen came out of there.

One of these days I will have to post some pics of my vast loblolly plantation.  It consists of at least 20 trees.  I planted them mainly to get samples off of.  We have a lot more slash and longleaf than loblolly. I planted them several years ago (I don't really remember when) and some have dbh of 8" or more and some are only dbh 2". 

[Wudman]

WDH can weigh in on the root rot that was affecting his particular stand but I suspect that it was "pine decline" caused by the Leptographium fungus.  This is a blue stain fungus that is vectored into the roots by the Hylastes beetle and other root feeding beetles.  Of course, the most damaging of the Leptographium fungi were introduced into this country from Europe.  Pine decline typically manifest itself in stands over 30 years of age.  Stands grown on abandoned agricultural land (hardpan - which was sub-soiled to ameliorate in this case), sandy to sandy loam sites, and lower amounts of organic matter tend to accelerate pine decline.  Other factors such as stress from thinning (equipment), drought, prescribed burning, and soil compaction worsen the impacts.  In other words, the silivicultural treatments that we use to grow timber, can put additional stress on susceptible trees.

I now carry a grubbing hoe as a diagnostic tool.  On trees suspected of having pine decline, dig up an underground root and look for black streaks through the tissue (it is a blue stain fungus in the underground roots.)  This fungus eventually impacts the trees ability to translocate resources......resulting in decline and eventual death.  With all of the introduced pathogens in this country (oak wilt, thousand canker disease, Dutch elm disease, Emerald ash borer, Sirex wood wasp, Asian Longhorn Beetle, etc), in another rotation we may be looking at nothing but sweetgum.

Wudman   

[WDH]

Wud, my first thinning target is 50 to 60 square feet of BA.  About 150 trees/acre.  This stand was thinned at age 12 to 165 trees/acre or a bit over 60 square feet in the fall of 2009.  More info to be found here:  http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,39179.0.html



Here is what it looks like 8 years later.  It is slated for a second thinning this Spring.



Kyle, the root rot weakens the trees so that the pine beetles sense that they are weak and then the beetles attack and kill some of the trees.  The rot is found in this area with sandy topsoils and clayey subsoils.  I believe that this seed source that this plantation was planted from is genetically disposed to the root rot and trees from this nursery (grown in Perry, FL) have a much higher incidence of the rot than other seed sources planted on the same soils in the same area.  Here is a pic of the 12 acre plantation that was clearcut and that I just replanted.  You can see some of the dead pines that the logger left for me to saw up on my sawmill for blue pine lumber. 

Reading Wudman's last post, Wud, you are exactly spot on about the pine decline.  Your description is a dead ringer for this situation.  You hit that nail on the head (old saying).  The University of Georgia came and did a study on this site before clearcutting last summer.  They took many increment cores and soil and root samples.  I have not seen any results yet of what they found, but Wudman, I know that you will be interested in what they found.  I will pass along this information. 



I did not want to clearcut this stand that I had babied for so long, but the mortality was becoming excessive.  Here is some info about the history of the 12 acre stand that I just planted after growing a crop of loblolly pine over a 30 year rotation.  As to economics, I made a profit on the sale of this timber considering the cost of initial planting, fertilizer, and my management time outside of the time spent pruning which was a choice I made simply for aesthetics.  The logger left me about three loads, 75 tons, of dead pine to saw in blue pine which I sawed into blue pine and sold.  The final harvest was a total of 37 loads or 92.5 tons per acre on 11 timbered acres.  There is 1 acre in a utility easement and firebreaks.  The stand had been thinned twice, once in 2000 and again in 2010.  Adding the harvest volume from the two thinnings, the 11 net timbered acres yielded 1680 tons over the 30 year rotation or 153 tons/acre.  That is just shy of 6 loads per acre produced over the life of the stand.  Total income from all timber sales including thinnings was $32,000.  Total income from all timber sales on the 11 timbered acres over the 30 year life of the stand was $2900/acre or $97/acre per year. 

The most recent clearcut timber sale brought $26/ton for cut-to-length sawlogs, and $12/ton for pulpwood.  Any recently dead or dying trees that already had any blue stain went to pulpwood even if the trees were sawtimber size.  The sawmills will not take dead or blued logs.

Here is a short video of the harvest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWj3rbcdPEE

[teakwood]

WDH: Nice growing!  In that first picture it seems like the pine has dead branches, the lower ones. Do those Trees selfprune?

In teak when they are real close the selfprune to a certain level. It's still alot of work tho prune the rest of the still alive branches

[WDH]

The first and second pics are before and after, so you can see that loblolly does self prune pretty good. 

[Wudman]

WDH, We are seeing a lot of "pine decline" in our operations down in Alabama.  I have identified a few stands in South Carolina.  It has been identified in one of our seed orchards in Alabama.......that gets your attention.  Seventy years of genetics are in jeopardy.  I would appreciate any information when you get your results back.  Thanks.

Jeff 

[mike_belben]

Thanks for sharing the numbers.  Those are often the most important, and hardest to get.

[nativewolf]

Hmmm, plant monocultures and then ....well sure there are going to be issues.  Some posters here won't know this but the SE of the US has millions and millions of super productive monoculture pine plantations.  They can stretch for miles, the use of herbicide is new and maybe deadly, maybe we are going too good a job of controlling competition and trees, grown like corn, in these super intensive plantations may be impacted by the same processes that impact corn or soybean etc.  Long term decline.  It might be necessary to fallow sites, or switch to hardwood stands for 40 years, etc. 

[caveman]

The only pine root rots that I am familiar with are annosum and sand pine root disease.  The annosum is evidently transmitted by wind to fresh cut stumps and is spread to other trees through root grafts and through injuries to the trees.  I was not aware of foreign rots that were causing damage.  Some of the foresters I have met suggest planting longleaf and claim they have better resistance to many diseases that loblolly and slash are susceptible to, but recently I have seen dead or dying trees from all three species.  I have attributed the mortality to the stress from last spring's drought and then Irma.

On another note, Dr.Ed Barnard, a forest pathologist (retired now) used to present at Florida's FFA Forestry Camp.  He would bring samples of bugs and rot and really could introduce the concepts to the students and FFA advisors alike in a way that kept everyone rapt.  I bet if some of you look at the pictures and write ups in a lot of your books you may see his name.  At the conclusion of the presentation he would stick around and shoot the breeze about forest disorders.  He often compared trees to people and stated that the trees are usually weakened or stressed and then are finished off by one or more diseases or types of insects.  For example, years ago several large loblolly pines in my pasture were struck by lightening.  They were all in a group and still alive but started getting black turpentine beetles at the bottom, Ips a little higher up, then pine sawflies ate some of the needles and finally the ambrosia beetles bored into them.  The five of them eventually died (they provided good samples during the two-three year process). I learned a lot over the years from those conversations with Dr. Barnard-as I am sure I could learn a lot from conversations with many here.

Danny, I hope your new "super trees" thrive and provide you with years of enjoyment while you manage them and watch them grow. 

The monoculture vs diversity in forests grown for profit is a topic for debate - if y'all decide to open that can of worms, I will certainly tune in.  Maybe someone can get to the root of the problem.

[WDH]

Progress has costs.

[nativewolf]

Ian was surprised at the low prices of the sawlogs here.  He needs to remember that the average NZ Radiata pine sawlog is quite a bit larger than the average Loblolly Pine sawlog.  In fact the mills are so specific that they only want wood within a 6 inch variation or so. 14-20 inches or something like that. 

Frankly I am surprised at the sawlog prices you are seeing, I think for that price I could ship sawlogs from here to China/Japan/Taiwan/Korea or wherever you are shipping them and make money, just need to buy a whole boat load.

[customsawyer]

I think this is the third or forth time I have gone back and read this thread. The older I get the more I enjoy it.
I haven't been in the reforestation side of things since 2011. Sold all my planting equipment and such. Now this year I'm spraying and planting 60 acres of my own. Well I hired the spraying done with a helicopter. Had to do some drum chopping on it due to the amount of natural pines on it. Will run a fire through it if I can ever get it to dry out some. The ironic part is I will also hire the planting done since I don't have the equipment set up to go out in the rough areas any more. Absolutely crazy how much life has changed since this thread was started. Danny, keep up the good work my friend.

[Bruno of NH]

Custom
Was that type of work profitable?
I don't see anything like this happening in my area.
I wonder why ?

[SwampDonkey]

Up here there are some tight margins on planting public lands. It seems the rates slid over the years much as it has for thinning. I know some companies have a tough time to attract plantation contractors and it is becoming the same with thinning. They seem to think at mills that they deserve all the raises. :D