Establishing a New Pine Plantation

customsawyer · November 26, 2018, 03:42:23 AM

Yes it was profitable. Just had to rely on a lot more hired help and as things slowed down for a couple of years, due to industry changes, I learned I was better off being smaller. Then I started the gig of sawing for the big mill in Hazelhurst and the rest is history.

mike_belben · November 26, 2018, 09:45:20 AM

Glad to hear about a happy ending.

Jeff · November 26, 2018, 03:53:31 PM

Danny, how did the stand make out with the hurricane?

WDH · November 27, 2018, 07:03:44 AM

No damage to this plantation. The damage was in the 21 and 30 year old plantations that had just been thinned this summer.

WDH · January 20, 2019, 11:19:02 AM

Well, the plantation has a 10 year birthday this month. In about 3 more years, it will have its first commercial thinning. Here is a pic. Note the hat on the bole of one of the stems for reference.

nativewolf · January 20, 2019, 11:46:26 AM

@wdh and @Wudman any more updates on the pine decline mentioned earlier in thread? With the price of hardwood pulp in the SE I am guessing you'd be better off not controlling the gum, poplar, etc. $68/ton is what the loggers are getting right now. Wow..wish we had that pricing up in N VA. I might not get rich but it would make pulp profitable.

WDH · January 20, 2019, 11:57:42 AM

The results of the pine decline study by the University of Georgia have not been published yet, so I do not know the whole story. However, in a brief text discussion with the Researcher, she indicated that they did not find evidence of annosum root rot. At this point, I am not sure of what caused this pine decline.

SwampDonkey · January 21, 2019, 04:57:17 AM

Looking good, you'll soon be making money.

I have a lot of nice fir that size, but it's 35-40 years old. ;D

mike_belben · January 21, 2019, 05:26:41 AM

Where was that 68/ton at again @nativewolf ? Alabama ? Do you know what mill? Id bet that makes pulp pay close to pallet or maybe even a bit more.

I wonder if those are long tons or short tons. Scrap yards with lots of competition will often play that game where they quote a better price on the phone then the bill does add up until they tell you a "ton" is 2240.

SwampDonkey · January 21, 2019, 05:33:45 AM

That would be fraud. We have a federal weights and measures authority here that would put the squeeze on such a scam. Same goes for firewood scammers.

tonne is metric 2200 lbs
ton is imperial 2000 lbs

Skeans1 · January 21, 2019, 06:38:12 AM

Quote from: mike_belben on January 21, 2019, 05:26:41 AM
Where was that 68/ton at again @nativewolf ? Alabama ? Do you know what mill? Id bet that makes pulp pay close to pallet or maybe even a bit more.

I wonder if those are long tons or short tons. Scrap yards with lots of competition will often play that game where they quote a better price on the phone then the bill does add up until they tell you a "ton" is 2240.

With a high pulp price how long till you see it come crashing back down or no market at all?

nativewolf · January 21, 2019, 09:25:08 AM

Quote from: mike_belben on January 21, 2019, 05:26:41 AM
Where was that 68/ton at again @nativewolf ? Alabama ? Do you know what mill? Id bet that makes pulp pay close to pallet or maybe even a bit more.

I wonder if those are long tons or short tons. Scrap yards with lots of competition will often play that game where they quote a better price on the phone then the bill does add up until they tell you a "ton" is 2240.

I know it was in central Alabama, we were 30 mins from Montgomery. Hardwood. Pine was $32/ton. The guys were very ...hard guys. All ex green berets, delta force, marines. Not sloppy guys getting worked over by mills.
And yes, much better than tie prices. In fact better pricing than #2 sawlogs for things like poplar and hickory. Lay it down with a feller buncher and get it loaded. It would make lots of crappy cut over forest profitable and allow them to be replanted with good hardwoods.

WDH · January 23, 2019, 09:15:32 PM

Remember this? I had to clearcut this 30 year old plantation in October 2016 due to pine decline.

Here is what has transpired since:

Site was allowed to grow up in the Spring and Summer of 2017. In late August, the site was sprayed to control the hardwood and herbaceous weeds and grass. In late October 2017 the site was ripped 20" deep. On January 29, 2018, the site was planted in MCP Elite seedlings from Arbogen.

Here is the site being sprayed:

Here is the site being hand planted. Planting was done on a 6x12 spacing which yielded a bit more than 600 trees/acre. I intended to only plant 500 trees/acre but I over-estimated the acreage a little so I had extra trees and went ahead and had them planted.

It only took these 15 tree planters one hour to plant the 12 acres.

Here is the stand today one year after planting.

Some of the trees are already 3 feet tall. I originally planted this old field in 1987. Grew a crop, harvested it, and now the cycle begins again

.

nativewolf · January 23, 2019, 09:45:04 PM

That's an interesting approach. I'd be curious to see the numbers and how they worked out in the first harvest. In alabama, and I guess GA too, hardwood pulp is bringing $68/ton due to the rain. At that price I think you'd be better off spraying the pine and thinning the hardwood

. Too bad that price won't last, could be back to 30 before you can spit.

WDH · January 24, 2019, 08:29:10 AM

Nativewolf. The history:

12 acre old field purchased in 1986 for $1000/acre (11 net plantable acres and 1 acre in power easement).

Establishment cost in 1987 =          $1184
Fertilization in 2000           =            $700
Property Taxes over the 30 years = $5017

                                Total Costs    $6901

Income -1st thinning in 2000 =       $5197
Income - partial 2nd thin in 2010 = $2160
Income - final harvest in 2016 =   $21327

                              Total income $28684

Net Gain = $21783
Net Gain = $1815/acre

Total tons harvested Pulpwood   = 970
Total tons harvested Sawtimber = 678

                   Total tons harvest = 1648

Tons per acre produced over life
of the 30 yr old plantation         = 150 tons/acre

mike_belben · January 24, 2019, 10:38:23 AM

That is awesome. :P

nativewolf · January 24, 2019, 11:25:00 AM

@wdh really appreciate that. That's a great overview, very interesting to think over.

SwampDonkey · January 24, 2019, 05:51:01 PM

Nice spray coverage by the looks of the kill. And yeah, doesn't take long with a big crew of planters to fill up a field.

Good returns. ;D

I think it will be 15 more years before I do a commercial thinning, but I will soon be doing thinnings for firewood needs. But 15 plus 20, we are looking at 35 years old I guess. I hope to have some 50 footers in the fir. The fir will be close to 50 years old by then, a bit older than the plantation stock. But all kinds of'm.

Budworm will probably eat'm up by then. :D Nah, doubt it, didn't in the last budworm scare.

WDH · June 23, 2019, 08:46:17 PM

OK. Status update on my new plantation. The trees are in their second growing season and are doing well. Amazing how much wildlife and birds are using the site. A pair of red tailed hawks are raising a family here.

caveman · June 23, 2019, 09:53:55 PM

Looking good, Danny. I am glad to see that they are growing well.

A family that I have become friends with is dealing with salvage, clean up and replanting in Blountstown, Florida. William, a young forester and former Florida state FFA officer, is being interviewed in the Fox report on the link below. I met William when he was on the high school forestry team competing in the state contest. The team he was on beat a very good team that I took that year. William and his team won the national FFA forestry contest the following October. Their place was well managed and absolutely beautiful prior to Hurricane Michael.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-timber-farmers-hurricane-michael

There were a few other stories in which family members were interviewed.

SwampDonkey · June 24, 2019, 03:14:04 AM

Looking good.

Reminds me that I have to count the rings on a couple 18" fir I cut for firewood this spring. These two were leaning toward the main road after Arthur. I cut some others same size a few feet back with sign of ants. Whorls 12-18" apart. Balsam doesn't grow tall like pine ;), but sure looks nice when managed on well drained ground. These aren't old because they established on old farmland. I have very few old ones, and one of them fell down last winter, the one I took a photo of 3 years ago.

customsawyer · June 30, 2019, 05:58:22 AM

Those are doing fine. Nothing like enjoying the fruits of your labor.

WDH · December 13, 2019, 07:51:57 AM

Getting toward the end of the 2nd growing season. This is at the end of September. Some of the trees are taller than me.

I expect them to really jump next year.

thecfarm · December 13, 2019, 07:55:41 AM

Trees look good. Whatcha do leave the camera there for 4 months!!

SwampDonkey · December 13, 2019, 10:47:27 AM

Do they plant bare root, or is it container stock down your way? I always liked red pine bare root seedlings on fields. But the only nursery doing them was government, the company nurseries all did container and the pine was always too short for field unless a 2 furrow plow or Kulla scarifier flopped the sod. We had some fields that was just wild strawberry and low stuff, best left undisturbed for planting.