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Phase converter

Started by Corley5, January 09, 2002, 08:57:08 PM

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Corley5

I'm considering investing in a Logosol planer moulder http://www.logosol.com/  but they are 3 phase powered.  We barely have power let alone three phase :)  Anybody have any experience with phase converters and hooking them up.  How much power is needed for one.  The Logosol specs are, total effect 12.2 KW and supply - 3-phase 220v 30a.  Would a 200 amp single phase service be enough power to run this thing with a converter?  How compliccated are phase converters to hook up?      
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Don P

Very little experience, I'm running my blower (3hp) on a homemade one. I just took the 12.2 KW and divided by 220 volts and came up with 55+ Amps...was that starting or running?

HORSELOGGER

Hey Corley!   I just got a Logosol planer and the phase converter delivered this week!  I am functionally ignorant about 'lectric stuff, but my friend the machine builder , who helped me wire my kiln is coming over this evening to get started on the phase converter. I have 200 amp single phase like you, so I will let you know what i run into as far as hook up.  The planer seems to be very well made....cant wait to make some shavings!       Mike
Heritage Horselogging & Lumber Co.
"Surgical removal of standing timber, Leaving a Heritage of timber for tommorow. "

L. Wakefield

   I'm interested in this thread also. One of the things I thought about when deciding what power to run to my barn initially- was my experience with industrial 3 phase. I figure that while I will allow myself to be talked down to 100-amp single phase- 'for now'- 200 amp is more reasonable. In this debate on 3-phase apps, if anyone has figures on what typical 3-phase power demands are for various types of equipment and how that converts back to what you can 'squeeze out of' 100 amps vs. 200 amps, I'd like to see it. My initial impression would be that you'd have to be losing power in the conversion process and that 200amp single phase would be a minimum to start with if you were contemplating use of a convertor.  :P   lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Bibbyman

We are literally in the middle of installing a Ronk rotary phase converter to run the 25hp Wood-Mizer mill coming in in two weeks.  I was totally ignorant about the topic before - now I'm just confused to no end.  ::)

Here are a few things I think I know from going through the gauntlet of info on the topic.

1) The phase converter needs to be rated at twice the size of the largest motor you intend to start and equal or larger than the total hp of the motors you plan to run.  i.e.  for a 25hp motor, the phase converter needs to be rated at 50hp but will also concurrently run other motors with total hp up to 50hp.

2) You need to talk with the converter manufacture about what type of load that you'll be putting on it.  They size them different if they have to start under heavy load - like a concrete mixer or pump, etc.  Also it the motor will be under full load for times over so many minutes.

3) 200 amp should be more than plenty for your application.  That is what they recommended for me with the 25hp mill + and expected 15hp edger and still run a 100amp panelboard for lights, etc.  

4) You should talk to your power company about your project.  They may need to upgrade your transformer and/or service.  They recommend 1kVA transformer for each motor HP.  They may be concerned about the spike it may cause on the line when the converter or motor kick on line.

5) The cost of the rotary phase converter is only about 1/2 to 2/3 the total cost to install.  2OO amp fused switched disconnect boxes and motor starters of this size are very expensive.  They don't give away heavy copper wire either.

6) There is no end to studying :P phase converters and manufactures.  It's like trying to compare PC.  They all make claims as to advantage over the others so it's hard to judge.  In the end,  you just about have to pick one and go with it. :-/
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Corley5

Mike,
  Did you get the phase converter through Logosol or do they  they recommend one?  I'm really interested in how well it works for you.  Did you get the chip blower/extractor also?  They seem to have a pretty good selection of knives to go along with the machine.  A friend of mines father is a master electrician who works in the auto plants down state and has even been to South America doing electrical stuff.  He wired up some 3 phase for a guys Pendu the other side of town a while back.  I'll have to talk to him about it.  I'll take some beer along he likes that :)  On the other side of town there's three phase power all over.  They are supplied by Presque Isle Electric and Gas.  We on the west side are on Great Lakes Energy and have only single phase.  From what I've been told when PIE-G started there was some federal funding and a condition of it was that they had to supply three phase power.  That's what happens when you live on the wrong side of the tracks. :D  Keep us posted.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

HORSELOGGER

Well, my friend just left and it looks to be a simple procedure. I have 100 amp panel in the barn, with one 40 amp 220 circuit for my kiln, and a 60 amp 220 circuit for a welder. I bought the planer and all the accesories, including the phase converter from Baileys logging supply. The converter was shipped direct from the mfg, in Mo. and according to the wiring diagram and instructions, the model that I got will run the Logosol chip extractor and the planer with a 60 amp circuit, so I am in there by the skin of my teeth! I will do away with the welder outlet and use that for the planer. It should only take a few hours to wire everything up so I will let you know how it works as soon as I can. I just unloaded some ash and cherry from the kiln that I am going to tongue and groove for flooring.  Mike
Heritage Horselogging & Lumber Co.
"Surgical removal of standing timber, Leaving a Heritage of timber for tommorow. "

D._Frederick

To figure requirement for single phase power to run a coverter,find the hp. of the 3 phase motor.  Multiply hp by 746watts/hp .  Divide watts by 220 volts to get amperage. Divide amperage by motor eff. and power factor. motors have a eff. of  80-90%  and power factor of 75-85%. So divide amps by 0.7 will give load amps to run a 3 phase motor on single phase power.  The starting current of a motor is about 3 times the full load running current.  So make sure the power company has a large enought transformer to handle the starting power surge of your motor.

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