Questions from a Prospective Sawyer

[jeepcj779]

They tell me the new shoulders will last 12-15 years. My thoughts exactly with the power stuff, just don't know if 4 powered back stops on the LT40 (vs 2 on the LT50) are worth an order change (and 3K). I think the chain turner will prove to be worth the extra expense. I cannot recall reading someone wished to go back to the claw once they experience a chain turner, even if the claw has some advantages.

[Ianab]

Interesting chat at work the other day. Two of the rural mail drivers are ex milk tanker drivers. They had been through full day courses about Occupational Overuse Syndrome. Basically they are told to try and use their arms 90° to their body, directly in front of them, as opposed to flapping them like wings. Over the years they were finding tanker drivers having shoulder issues from hefting heavy hose couplings up onto vats, so they had a full days training on how to couple hoses to vats. It might have seemed pointless to the younger guys, but the guys that had been driving for 30 years saw the point.  

[stavebuyer]

The chain turner and vertical backstops are a big upgrade. The extra "linked" horizontal backstops available on the 40 series are there on 50 & 70 but are manual so you can saw and clamp short pieces. I ordered the linked backstops on my 35 and found they were in the way more often then they were useful(think crooked logs, knot swells etc.). The linked stops will make you do more trimming and reduce mill capacity. You won't regret the 50.

[thecfarm]

Should may last 12-15 years, but is that sawing years? Lots of people do not work like we do.

[caveman]

The new 50's come with fine adjust outriggers.  For mobile sawing that should make setting up easier and faster.  For stationary sawing it would make tightening up a loose outrigger a lot less of an ordeal than the lever leg outrigger system that is standard on most mills.  I have never used the claw turner but I would hate to be without the chain turner after using one.

[terrifictimbersllc]

The chain turner is very fast compared to the claw. I'd say that is the main difference overall.  Also it turns both ways though the clockwise direction is less powerful. The claw has more finesse and can be used a little more easily than the chain to avoid scarring cant faces. The vertical uprights can be lowered even with moderate clamp pressure without shifting the work though sometimes the pivoting stops can be too. You can use the vertical uprights to gently lower large cants to keep them from falling with full force on the bed.Four linked uprights can help with shorter logs but there will always be ones that are still too short. The $3000 difference will be mitigated at resale by the fact that it is an LT 50. Most of the differences are about speed not capability.Some of the difference is preference not just increased cost. I've had both and on balance would rather have the chain and vertical uprights, But to some extent it is not just like some other accessory choice, it comes with whichever mill you want to buy. I put an 8 foot softwood 4 x 4 between the uprights as a fence when shorter logs are in the pile. Just turn around and drop it in the sawdust pile and then put it back on as needed. Very handy until the cant gets square edges.i

[Southside]

The chain is a huge step in both speed and function.  Yes, on the downside it will scar up faces, but you learn to flip cants with the clamp and avoid that issue.  I use my chain to do a lot of things beyond turning logs.  When QS pine I will create multiple cants from a single log then use the clamp to push them toward the loading arms, most of the time they won't fall on their own onto the arms but the chain will give me just enough of a flip to get them to go right over without ever touching them.  Then I use the arms, clamp and chain to bring them back into position to saw one at a time having never touched a single one.  I also use the chain and clamp to reverse flip tall, narrow, cants.  A claw can't do that, at least not without some grab and lift to get it started on your part many times.  

Personally I always thought the claw is an amazing design, then I got a chain and never looked back.  Worth $3K?  Yes, that's a chunk of change, but having run both I would say it's worth it. 

[jeepcj779]

  Thanks all for the input. Right now I think I will go with my gut and keep the LT50 on order.

  thecfarm, I talked to the ortho doc at some length about what I will be able to do with two bionic shoulders, specifically about which movements were bad for them and which were not. The conversation boiled down to "pushing" is bad (like lifting things overhead, bench press, pushups, etc.), and pulling is not so bad (like picking things up from the ground or waist height, deadlift, etc.).
  I figure most of the work around the mill will involve more pulling than pushing, so I hope the shoulders will last. If I need to push something heavy or lift something substantial overhead, I'll use diesel powered hydraulics. If the fake shoulders wear out too quickly, they are both stemless, so there is plenty of bone left for next time.

[Larry]

60% or better of what I've been sawing for the last two years is live edge slabs 15" - 32" wide.  I saw a waste slab off the top and drag it back.  Than I saw slabs down to near the center of the log.  Lift the log with either the clamp or my vertical log stops and the slabs slide into the loader arms.  Flip log with the chain turner and take off the second waste slab which is also dragged back.  Saw slabs to the bed and lift pile with the clamp and chain turner.  Move towards the loader arms and the chain turner pushes them off onto the arms.  Pick up slabs with the forklift and repeat.  The only wood I touch with my hands is the two waste slabs, which I have to push on my roller tables into the slab dump.

Keep that LT-50......or take another look at TK.  A lot of slabs I saw I can't lift one end much less both ends.  I saw solo at home unless its more than 5,000 board foot so I like mills that make it easy.

I love sawing slabs.  Got a couple of really ugly walnut logs $$$$$$$ in the yard now that I'll show in the Whatcha Sawing thread in a couple of days.

Slabs from my gallery.

[Walnut Beast]

Nice tips. Can't you lift the remaining ones with your roller toe boards and get your forks under it?  Looking forward to seeing the other pictures 

[Larry]

Yes, I can and often do with the biggest slabs. 

[Walnut Beast]

Thanks Larry. Looking forward to the pictures 😊

[jeepcj779]

Larry, I am going to stick with the LT50, and I have had plenty of time since last year to reconsider a TK. I really like the direct hydraulics and the 38" cut capacity on their new TK 2020, which I think is most comparable to the LT50, but I opted for the Woodmizer for the ease of setup (I plan to be mostly mobile) and my proximity to a dealer. The LT50 is also a little cheaper with similar equipment (delivery for the TK is over 2K). Honestly, if I were planning to be stationary most of the time, I would probably go for the TK 2200. My decision would be much more difficult if the TK dealer was not so far away. Anyway, I guess I will find out if I made the right decision in the next couple years. Thanks again to all for the advice.

[Walnut Beast]

I'm sure you will be happy. There are quite a few happy guys on the Forum 👍

[jeepcj779]

  So, I have been planning for the last 9 months or so to get an LT-50 when I retire and have a deposit on one already. My original plan was to do custom sawing at customer locations and then saw for myself at home.
  Since ordered it however, I have had another shoulder replaced (my 2nd), and I also have low back issues that are stable for now but I don't want to make that situation worse than it already is. Originally I thought I would be able to overcome my physical obstacles and follow through with my plan, but now I'm not so sure.
  I've been thinking for the last month or so about just getting an LT-35 instead of the 50. That way I can learn to saw before going all in, not worry about having the hassel of a business, not worry about liability or business insurance, and save 25K to boot. I can always sell the LT-35 and upgrade later if I feel the need.
  I really want to get the 50, but I think the 35 will do everything I need it to for my personal needs, and I don't know that I can justify the 25K price difference for the convenience of a motorized adjustable guide, vertical stops, Accuset 2, and chain turner if I am only sawing as a hobby. At the same time, I don't want to regret getting the 35 instead of the 50.
  I am interested to hear your opinions. I would be especially interested to hear from those who have an LT-35, or had one and upgraded. For those who have one, does it do everything you need it to? For those who upgraded, is the performance difference between them great enough to justify the price difference for a hobby? Thanks.

[Southside]

My first mill was a 35, I still have it and use it as a resaw. It took me from hobby sawing, into portable sawing, and the foundation of my business. 

When it came time to upgrade the 50 didn't make sense enough for the investment, so I ended up getting a Super 70.

The nice thing about the 35 is you have time to see what you are doing and really get to learn how to saw as a result, and have the hydraulic capacity to do the grunt work. 

I don't think you would regret starting with a 35 and adjusting as your plan does. 

[stavebuyer]

I owned and operated an assortment of mills over the years( Timberking B16, Meadows #2 portable, LT70(diesel & elec), LT15, and LT35. 

The bells and whistles on the 70 are nice but they come at a cost and the cost goes beyond purchase price. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and mine is that electronics and harsh operating conditions are not an ideal match. The more little motors, wires, switches, and connections you have the more their will be to fail. The more complicated the mill the higher the number of repairs. The LT15 we used to 4 side small logs into ties and ran the 2 heavy slabs through a re-saw. That mill just ran. Gas, oil, couple of belts.

LT70's were impressive. Sawyer sat in a climate controlled cab. My parts order history looks like I was building mills as a sideline. Many times one issue causes others. In 2013 I spent over 17,000 on sawmill parts and repairs. I tracked blades and sharpening in a different category. Wesawed over 1.5 million bf that year. Blade guide motors and debarker swing arm motors were consumable parts that I kept spares for on the shelf.

I also think the "remote" figures into the equation. Wires don't like mice eating on them, they don't like abrasion, and they don't like being constantly flexed moving back an forth. Overhead is an improvement over cord reel or cat track but flex enough and you will have a failure. Walk or ride with eliminates lots of wires.

With the 35 you still have hydraulics for the heavy lifting and turning, simple set for accuracy, and de-barker. To me the only real downside is loss of drag back. I sawed more than a few big logs on my 70s and was glad my 35 couldn't saw them. 

The 50 is a nice machine but I would say it would be a little harder to get your money back out of. If I am going to spend spend 50K I am going to buy new and get all the warranty vs buying your low hour/no warranty machine. Take a few grand off the price of a low hour LT35 and it will sell the day you post it. Take 5 grand off a low hour LT50 and it will sit. Seen it happen more than once.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

[jeepcj779]

@Southside, I know from reading on the forum that you started with and still have a 35, so any comments from you are on target and are much appreciated.
@stavebuyer, thanks for the comments on maintenance and recouping costs when reselling. Also on complications with added electronics, motors, cat tracks, etc. I think it was Scotty form Star Trek who said "the more you overwork the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain". A less complex mill will be easier to maintain. Your points will definitely affect my decision.

[jeepcj779]

If I do get the LT-35, I will order it with a diesel motor. Does the LT-35 diesel have enough torque to reliably run turbo 7 blades in most types of wood?

[stavebuyer]

I had no trouble running Turbo 7's in Oak with the 25hp gas Kohler. To me the LT35 with the liquid cooled Yanmar diesel is much more mill than the base 40 with the 26 hp gas Kohler.  It may not handle as big of a log but what it does handle it will saw faster. That combo will serve you well. A close friend of mine bought one of the first of those Yanmar's and it was pretty impressive.

[Southside]

Complete agree with stavebuyer there. All I run on my 35 are Turbos and it has the gas Kohler. It would wallop with a diesel.

[YellowHammer]

Whatever mill you buy, horsepower is king. 

I had a LT40 with a Yanmar and it had no problem pulling .055 Turbos.

[Bandmill Bandit]

I haven't been able to spend much time on the forum latrly so have not kept up with this thread.

May I suggest going with the LT40 Hydraulic with the 38 gas Kohler. It gives you the base mill that can be upgraded LT40 Super with wood mizer upgrade kits, as health and cash flow allow. Price difference to the 35 is not a lot and the LT40 is bit more robust than 35.

Going to a diesel is an option BUT it bumps the price a fair bit and does not deliver a lot more productivity. The Kohler engines are reliable and deliver good torque for a gas powered engine and they run pretty cheap.

Its basically what I did and I don't regret it. The upgrades cost me roughly what it would have cost me to buy a Super from the start but I didn't have the $$ to do that so went the upgrade route. If I calculated my labor/shop time to do the upgrades it would be a bit of an expensive venture, but I have the shop, tools and know how so it was a good option for me. Might work for you too.  

[jeepcj779]

Bandmill Bandit, I considered buying the standard LT-40 to try and get some of the useful upgrades I would miss with an LT-35, but once I got done building it (with the diesel, not gas), I was only about 10K from where I am with the LT-50. For 10K difference, I would get the LT-50. My decision should probably come down to whether or not I will use the mill for business. That is the fence I am on right now, and I am having a tough time deciding what to do. I guess I have until the end of the week - the sale on the LT-35 will be over on the 31st. 

[doc henderson]

some will lock in sale prices if you have a deposit.  you are young so I would get the most mill you can since you will have many years to get you value out of it, weather for business or personal use.  I wish I had bought mine 15 years earlier, and now the prices are up over 35% from about 7 years ago.  I am sure you do not need my opinion, but if it helps nudge you in a direction you really want to go anyway, so be it.  I think I could sell my mill now, for what I paid for it.












































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