Being pretty new to chainsaws and being on more of a budget than I'd like (and consumed with the insane idea that I can find great deals if I buy used and am maybe willing to do some repairs) I'm constantly looking at the local ads.
I see all sorts of saws come across, mostly newer gens but some of the older stuff as well. I would like to buy quality and sort of along those lines I assume "pro" grade equipment equates to quality equipment. I guess I should explain my idea of quality, quality is something that was made to be used hard, taken care of and repaired vs cheap and throw away.
So with the above info on my thought process, what makes a saw a "pro" level saw vs say a mid grade or a consumer grade (consumer grade seeming to equate to throw away these days.)
For example, there's a Husky 261 and a Husky 440 in the papers right now. Where would you rank these two saws and why?
Thanks,
Brandon
:D :D :D
Literally as I post this I look at the bottom of the screen and find an almost exact same title from a few years ago.. sorry my search fu was weak this morning it seems
http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=57330.0 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=57330.0)
Oh trust me they will line up on the sidelines like cheer leaders at a high school football game .My saw is better than your saw type of thing. I ignore them most of the time unless I feel a strike of orneriness which attacks me from time to time much like the great never ending mix oil debates which will never end .I have fun with it but some really get bent out of shape . 8)
Husky 261 = pro grade. Husky 440 = homeowner grade. The biggest difference is a magnesium crankcase that cylinder sits on - 261. 440 has a clamshell engine that sits in a plastic chassis - a lot more plastic that can get damaged easier.
Clamshells don't get as much respect but there is nothing wrong with them if fuel delivery and compression are good and saw isn't physically abused. I have quite a few.
Another term to watch for - Farm / Ranch saws. Seems to be more of a marketing term than build quality. Nowadays, they are all clamshells. Is the plastic thicker and more sturdy than homeowner clamshells? I dunno - never looked that deep.
Farm / ranch used to be a real category. Not so much now, like dougand3 said.
There have been some real good explanations on here and it's worth understanding. Holmentree has been real good at breaking down the current and past differences.
Maintenance and repair play a big role. Balance, power to weight, longevity are usually better in the pro models.
Professional grade versus homeowner grade. Chevrolet made a corvette and a chevette. Corvette is streamlined,fast, and should be very high quality. Chevette is not as streamlined, not nearly as fast, not as high quality as the corvette, but it will get you where your going. Which vette would you choose if the new price difference is $300.00 or less.
That 300.00 pine ridge spoke of sorta sums some of it up. This ms261 was just over 600.00 out the door with a 18 inch bar and some of the oil to double the warranty. Could of got a 250 for a lot less. I have had eye surgery and haven't even cranked it yet, as a matter of fact my wife had to go pick it up.
The last new saw I bought was a ms 460 pro saw about 10 or 11 years ago and the only thing that I have had to do other than general maintenance was replace the pull cord a few times on that saw and it still runs strong. This 261 will replace an old 024 that still runs but takes about 10 pulls to crank...parts are getting hard to find for it. Don't know if the 024 was pro or not, but it has been good for me.....bought it used from my old boss sight unseen for $50.00... when he said it would crank and run I said sold. Before I bought the 460 I bought a 180 home owner stihl to cut ends off cross ties. It didn't hold up. Never have took time to mess with it. Banjo
Pro verses homeowner or farm/ranch to me means better and stronger components and closer tolerances, ease of rebuilding as in stronger lower cases to withstand abuse better, cylinder bolts, carb, and exhaust parts are easier to get access to with less crap hanging off of the jug to ease removal and replacement - better quality of bearings and seals - and in general a more well thought out arrangement of engine components so easy (even in-field) removal and replacement of major components is possible with less hassle and time involved.
Pro saws usually all have better AV set ups, better chain brake systems and adjustable chain oiling components, usually come with more upscale bar and chains, and the general balance and ergonomics have been well thought out verses the lesser varieties just being enlarged versions sometimes of previous iterations which may have already had inherent problems or complications that never were rectified before turning the arrangement into the next new version..
Quote from: Banjo picker on September 17, 2019, 04:56:48 PM.
This 261 will replace an old 024 that still runs but takes about 10 pulls to crank...parts are getting hard to find for it. Don't know if the 024 was pro or not, but it has been good for me.....bought it used from my old boss sight unseen for $50.00... Banjo
Actually that's exactly what I payed for the same saw from a dealers "dead pile " of which it was not .A little scorch on the exhaust side of the piston. ,Gutted the muffler ,retuned and used 32 to one gas mix and in 6 or 7 years it's never failed me .At the time it was the smallest so called pro saw in the line up at 42 cc I think .
I meant to put in a picture but forgot.
Banjo
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18028/20190917_154024.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1568752845)
"What's the difference between a Homeowner grade and a Pro grade saw?" For me, it was about 8 years of frustration- then I spent my hard- earned money on a saw that was going to work just as hard.....
What's the difference between a Yugo and a BMW?
They both have motors and 4 wheels, what more could you want. Well apart from not falling apart in a couple of years.
You know the saying, cheap / fast / good, pick any 2. If you want to build a better saw, you need to use better materials, to make it lighter and more durable. And that costs more.
Not everyone needs a "pro" saw, especially it they only use it for an hour a month. A decent mostly plastic saw will still last for years. But if your JOB is cutting things, then being a lb heavier, 1/2 hp less, and wearing out after 3 months of heavy use means it's a non-starter. Then you pay the extra $$ for the better saw that's going to last a few years.
When I was saw shopping, I found some of the difference between pro and consumer models was in the way they are marketed. Pro saws were not available in box stores, only in dealerships. If you checked online you had to submit your info to get a price, prices not advertised. The pro saws typically will have features like an adjustable oiler, captive bar nuts, decompression button, see through gas tank window to check fuel level, and other features not available on consumer grade models.
I didn't grew up around chain saws as my forks were in the fuel business and when they needed a tree cut at the house they hired it done. I bought my first farm in the 70's when I was 20 and got to know a farmer down the road. This farm needed a lot of cleaning up. I started helping him on his farms and in the winter he helped me on my farm cleaning it up in the day as I worked nights as a mechanic in the city. I will leave brands out but he had consumer grade saws of that time and it seemed like we were always working on them. I though there has to be a better way. A local shop was having a open house and I stopped in after work and tried out a pro saw.
Wow what a difference. I bought one. The old farmer ran this saw and he bought one too. I still have that saw today and many other pro saws. With most tools you get what you pay for. Today I cut around 20 cord a year to burn in my Garn.
I suppose you could say I've been around the noisy things since I was a child .I never owned one until the mid 70's and it was an inexpensive Poulan s25 DA .With that saw and a larger McCulloch PM 610 I supplemented my income selling firewood for 40 bucks a 3/4 ton pick up full for about 8 years .
I still have both of those saws and they run as good as the day I bought them .Since I've gotten into small time collection and restoration of same .
I've acquired a lot of knowledge but am far from an expert only to say I know more than the average bear .
It's like anything ,some get it and some don't which covers a lot of subjects .Then again some like to play golf and some don't . ;)
Well I decided to buy a saw with one of those snazzy buttons on the engine that makes it easier to start... I think someone mentioned it as a "pro" saw feature ;) Used 390xp coming my way in a week or so.
Brandon
I used a efco 50cc for years. Yes,I really only used it on small stuff,came with a 20 inch bar,I only used about 14 inches of it. ;D Yes,if I had 6-8-10 small trees in a pile I used the whole bar,but most time there was plenty of air gaps. I did have it wired and taped together,but the part that turned the chain,broke clean off one morning.
Here it is.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/thecfarmefcosawcontestsept2011.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1317120001)
I do have a big saw,as I call it,a 372 husky. But that small saw got used limbing. Really helped out my shoulder. Kinda looking at a 135 husky now.
So THATS what you look like, TheCfarm! Your a pretty handsome guy! I had a slightly different picture in my head. ;D
We should do a thread with everyone's photo that is not taken at 100 feet while wearinf safety gear or sitting in a skidder cab.This might tun out to be a better looking group than I thought.
I think what makes a PRO saw is the person holding it. :D
"I think what makes a PRO saw is the person holding it. (https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)"
No, that's pro saw"yer"
It's still a pro saw in their hands. :D
ManjiSann, I think you'll really like the 390. I haven't ran the first tank through mine yet, but I find myself taking an extra cut on big rounds just because it feels good😁
Quote from: barbender on September 20, 2019, 12:38:20 AM
ManjiSann, I think you'll really like the 390. I haven't ran the first tank through mine yet, but I find myself taking an extra cut on big rounds just because it feels good😁
The timing was a bit of an impulse but I did a fair bit of reading and thinking before I bought it so I am pretty sure I'll like her too. According to all the specs I've found online it's about 15lbs without b/c which is about what my 50cc Poulans weigh so I'm already used to that. Might take a while to get used to having some power in the cut though 8) 8)
Brandon
I'm not familiar with the new numbering system but assume the 390 is a newer 039? If that's true the originals had plenty of power for the size when used as a firewood cutter and likely would last a long time if treated properly .
Conversely in professional usage they don't do so well especially in the tree service industry when used by often not well trained ground crews .I have a box full in my shed of these and 029's that might have lasted two years as such usage .In that case because of a massive ice storm requiring over 2-3 months to clean up they were purchased as a cheaper alternative for the need of more personal employed .If it's any consulation the less expensive Husqvarnas didn't do well either purchased for that event .However they got the job done albeit that's about all they lasted for .--just saying ---
Quote from: Al_Smith on September 20, 2019, 09:53:34 AM
I'm not familiar with the new numbering system but assume the 390 is a newer 039? If that's true the originals had plenty of power for the size when used as a firewood cutter and likely would last a long time if treated properly .
Conversely in professional usage they don't do so well especially in the tree service industry when used by often not well trained ground crews .I have a box full in my shed of these and 029's that might have lasted two years as such usage .In that case because of a massive ice storm requiring over 2-3 months to clean up they were purchased as a cheaper alternative for the need of more personal employed .If it's any consulation the less expensive Husqvarnas didn't do well either purchased for that event .However they got the job done albeit that's about all they lasted for .--just saying ---
I don't really understand the numbering system either so can't comment on the 390 vs 039 than isn't 039 more of a Stihl numbering system? I could be totally off.
I'm by no means a pro saw user, this forum has a pretty good idea of the extent of my skill. I will say though that I likely baby my saws a bit more than the average crewman as I'm the one who bought it and want it to last a long time.
Al, do you know what the common failure was in those saws? Might give me an idea where to focus my TLC.
Brandon
These had the tar beat out of them .For example one had lost the e-clip on the clutch and was ran with no clutch bearing which had broken the clutch and burned up all the plastic .Another had all the flocking missing from the air filter with only the wire mesh left which chewed up the cylinder and others just badly abused .The others which are in pieces I'd have to look at the cylinders to try and figure it out .
It wasn't all the saw design because they were just misused .However pro saws such as 034 supers and one 038 Magnum with over 20 years of use held up during that period .Fact the 038 grenaded a piston which I replaced and it continued for about 5-6 years as a daily runner which was given to me and now abides in my shed .Also an 028 also survived and It's right next to it as did a 281 Husky and they are all mine now .
Having said that with the subject of "pro saws " in mind with just standard maintainence they would have been okay I think . Nothing wrong with them for general usage .
Quote from: Al_Smith on September 20, 2019, 11:17:50 AM
These had the tar beat out of them .For example one had lost the e-clip on the clutch and was ran with no clutch bearing which had broken the clutch and burned up all the plastic .Another had all the flocking missing from the air filter with only the wire mesh left which chewed up the cylinder and others just badly abused .The others which are in pieces I'd have to look at the cylinders to try and figure it out .
It wasn't all the saw design because they were just misused .However pro saws such as 034 supers and one 038 Magnum with over 20 years of use held up during that period .Fact the 038 grenaded a piston which I replaced and it continued for about 5-6 years as a daily runner which was given to me and now abides in my shed .Also an 028 also survived and It's right next to it as did a 281 Husky and they are all mine now .
Having said that with the subject of "pro saws " in mind with just standard maintainence they would have been okay I think . Nothing wrong with them for general usage .
Al, I neglected to mention it's a Husqvarna 390xp. The saws you're talking about appear to be Stihls, guessing on the numbering sequences and associations? I'm not a brand snob, in my limited experience and from all the reading I've done it sounds like they are both excellent brands. In fact I had also been looking at Stihls as well. I appreciate you popping in to share your thoughts and experiences, I've read a lot of other posts you've contributed to and thus believe you to be very knowledgeable... do you own chickens as well? :D :D @doc henderson (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=41041)
From what I've read, whether pro, mid grade or consumer, if routine maintenance is done on it and when there's an issue it's addressed it seems like most saws will run for a long time. Thanks for the details and don't worry about looking at the cylinders on the others, unless you feel like it. From what you said I don't think I'd have the same issues as I'm fairly meticulous about maintenance (the stuff I know about at least ;) )
The kill switch on one of my poulans stopped working, not really a big deal as you can use the choke to kill it but in my mind it's a bit of a safety hazard so I've already ordered the replacement parts to fix it. It was a rather opportune issue as the Husky I just bought said in the description that the kill switch is non functional but you can kill it with the choke (matches my knowledge/experience so lets me know they seller isn't totally clueless.) Because I'm in the process of fixing the same issue on the Poulan, when I read that in the description it didn't worry me much at all as I was already familiar with it. I pulled the Husky's diagram and it appears to be a pretty similar set up so no big worry for me.
Would you consider the Stihl 028 a pro level saw? From what I've read it sounds more like the Rancher (in my mind mid grade?) type saws.
I guess in the end what I'm trying to get at is how to know what level of quality a saw is as I'm likely to buy most of mine used and sometimes people want pro level prices for what is more of a consumer grade saw. Nothing leaves a bad taste in my mouth like thinking I got a great deal only to find out it's not what I thought it was.
Thanks,
Brandon
The 028 Stihl unless I'm mistaken was the smallest of a series of 3 models of 038,the 042 and 048 Stihl .Gear drive oil pump,very robust but more than likely although of a pro design most likely not used in pro type work much because of it's size .I've got one,works,sits on a shelf ,better saws to use .