Battery for mill & electric winch?

[Daburner87]

I only just got started with my first log yesterday, and the hand winch I have worked really well, but I already want to upgrade to an electric winch.  Also my mill(HM130Max) has a battery box, and after yesterday using the pull start from an awkward position, it just doesn't make sense not to spend the $60 or so on a turn key operation.  

My question is this, should this battery power the winch as well as the mill? Is there any reason not to do it this way aside from the fear that it can potentially drain the battery(which incase I can still pull start the Kohler engine)?  The battery size for the mill recommends a U1 which is quite small.  Is there any benefit to getting a bigger battery? 

I'm not a daily sawyer, more of a weekend warrior, but I really see the benefits of the electric winch, and electric start.  I can also keep it on a trickle charge. Thoughts?

[Husky546]

I personally dont have a winch on my mill but I have been around some winches in the offroad world so maybe I can offer some perspective. (non scientific of course) Depending on the load your putting on the winch and how often you use it will determine your battery life. Of course with a truck you have an alternator to replenish any energy so its less of an issue. In a mill application im assuming you dont have an alternator to recharge the battery as it drains. so essentially what you start with is all you have. if you have a small lawnmower sized battery that wont provide the output your winch needs for as long as say a big semi battery. 

You can get some "high performance batteries" that can cost hundreds like this one 

https://amzn.to/3u0NohN

But at the end of the day if your charging, draining, charging, draining your still probably going to be unimpressed. Besides that if you mill in a cold climate like I do if you drain it and leave it in the field and it freezes there goes your super fancy battery. 

My dad had a winch on his pole shed ceiling years ago he used to skin deer and it was just a junk car battery hooked to a charger. that did all he ever asked of it and it was free. Assuming your in the woods and dont have access to a charger you could also collect a few car batteries and run them together as a makeshift battery bank. doing so would likely get you through a day of sawing before needing to recharge them. 

Now i dont know how to build this type of setup off hand but amazon has some books that are decent regarding off grid power banks using old batteries. 

https://amzn.to/3IG22PM
 
but to answer your or original question i would have a separate battery configuration for your winch setup. just my two cents.  

[KenMac]

If your mill engine has an electric starter on it now, it should have a battery already. If not, then the engine probably is not designed for electric start and the engine would have to be replaced with one with electric start I would think. Seems to me that your best option is to get a large deep cycle marine battery for the winch and charge it as needed. I could be wrong about the starters on Kohlers but I think I'm correct.

[biggkidd]

If your engine has an electrical starter then it has a charging system albeit small / low power. A winch may or may not drain the battery faster than your charging system can replenish it depending on how much you use the winch. If you're talking loading logs then you will probably be fine since it can recharge while you cut the log. 

[Daburner87]

So this is my current setup, again this winch is only used for pulling logs up onto the mill bunks.  I'm not dragging logs out of the woods or anything crazy.  The Kohler engine is 14hp, about 500cc, and it has pull start and key start but Woodland Mills doesn't provide a battery with purchase.  I could run the engine when loading the logs I suppose to prevent drain.  I would have to look up the engines specs in regards to charging.




 

[biggkidd]

It's most likely going to have a charging system between 3 and 20 amps. If you are just loading logs I seriously doubt you need to leave the engine running for that. It will have plenty of charge time while you're making cuts. If it were me I'd get a good 375-450CCA battery that fits in the provided box. Unless of course they used a car size box (which I doubt) then I would get the largest battery that will fit. Batteries are one place quality and amperage really make the difference. Cheap batteries do not often to cross 12 months when it comes to mower size batteries I just pulled a GOOD (read expensive) mower battery last summer dated from 2011!

I spent the last ten or so years of my working life running a small engine repair shop.

[kelLOGg]

I have a 2nd battery for my winch and a trickle charger for both engine starter and winch. My gallery shows the setup. Also you can ask me for details if interested.

[Daburner87]

Cool, gonna try and get a battery and pick a winch this weekend.   I'll measure the battery box, and see what the biggest I can get in there will be, or maybe just buy a bigger battery box for it.

[VB-Milling]

I would say let the starter battery do the starting and get a winch battery to do the winching.  I basically have the same setup with an HM126, but it doesn't have the electric start.  My winching system is a separate battery that I use a 12v charger on.  I can't see myself ever needing to mill somewhere without access to 120v power to use my 12v charger.  If I happen to have that situation, I made a set of battery cables with Anderson quick connectors that I can connect my vehicle battery to the winch battery on the trailer.

I milled at a friend's house a couple weekends ago and brought my whole setup, including an extension cord.  Used an outside plug to keep my 12v charger plugged in and winched all day just like at home.  

[mike_belben]

Put a large marine battery on and put anderson power pole connectors from your winching battery to your starting battery.  

The marine battery will buffer the winching to keep the starting battery from a deep discharge (very bad for it but not the marine battery) and the stator system will recharge as you mill, since milling should be a lot more of the time that winching as you work up a log.  

Monitor the system voltage with a $10 chinese LED voltage display visible from the winching position.  If you are running down below 12.3ish volts plug the power pole lead into a 7 pin trailer harness on your truck and start it.  That way youll have added another 700+ cranking amps AND 100ish plus amp alternator. 

This will probably only be needed when dealing with a whopper and maybe having it go wrong and have to roll it back down and start over without milling in between. Heavy winching.  In parbuckle config the winch isnt really working that hard. Logs roll easy. 

[Gere Flewelling]

I am not sure what your engine might have for a charging system, but my experience has shown that flywheel charging systems on smaller engines (under 20hp) are designed to keep a battery charged if it only has to start the engine.  Any other load will draw more that what the system can produce.  The biggest issue I can see is that your staring battery will be on your saw carriage.  The winch will likely be on the bed of the mill.  This seeming will not allow battery cable to be run to the winch unless you have some kind of a live chain to supply power from one to the other.  On my manual mill, I have a battery to start the engine and run the power lift/lower and forward and reverse functions located on the carriage.  I have a second battery mounted on the bed to power my loading winch.  I added a claw type log turner that I use a third winch on.  I added another battery on the bed frame to power that.  I wasn't sure how much the second winch would draw, which is why I added another battery.  As it turns out, I think the one bed frame battery is sufficient to power both winches and plan to remove one of the batteries or just combine them in parallel in the future. I run the largest size deep cycle marine batteries to power the winches.  For me is works well in that I use the same batteries in my boat when needed.  I just put a 2 amp. maintainer on them at night when I am milling and have never had issues.  I keep the bed batteries in the plastic storage box's like they use in my boat.  You can see pictures of my setup in the Cook's site in the Index.
I am sure there are other options to consider.  This is just what works for me.  Good luck!

[mike_belben]

Theres a fine line with high load on a stator/rectifier system.  On the quad i have a stock stator, a garden battery and a 2500lb atv winch that has pulled lots of firewood logs and doesnt kill the battery as long as you keep it running and then skid in a low enough gear for lots of rpm to recharge while skidding. 


On my 1970s tractor with an 8k truck winch and a 10amp generator i have 2 batteries and must minimize winching plus supplementally charge on occasion as the batteries are getting injured.  I need to cut the generator off and put on a big alternator. But im talking 100 amp winch vs 400amp too. 

Im pretty confident an atv winch will parbuckle logs up ramps on a stator with a large deep cycle marine battery.  

[rusticretreater]

I have a Woodland Mills HM130max.  The electric start uses an ATV sized battery and that is the size of the battery box.  The battery is of course charged by the engine during operation.

As my shed is too far from electrical sources, I am installing a powered winch system this spring that will utilize a solar panel, some current management pieces and a heavy duty marine battery.

My log hauling trailer has a winch mount on it and I invested in a extended battery cable system for my truck that brings power straight from the battery to the rear bumper.  I can use this to hookup to the sawmill winch when problems arise.  This is a pretty good expenditure of cash, but will pay off mightily in the long run.

[ladylake]

 
  I'd go to the local heavy duty truck dealer and get a group 31 battery which should run a winch a long time by its self  , around here around $95.  They sure run my dump trailer  a long time, and really crank my mill.  Take it home and charge it when needed.  Steve

[trapper]

I have a harbor freight 3500 lb winch on my lt30  and run it on a stand alone deep cycle marine battery to load logs and have never run out of power,  millng an hour or 2 a day for weeks before charging.  Remember your winch is only running a minute ot two to load each log. it is a rolling load not draging

[biggkidd]

I have a harbor freight 3500 lb winch on my lt30  and run it on a stand alone deep cycle marine battery to load logs and have never run out of power,  millng an hour or 2 a day for weeks before charging. Remember your winch is only running a minute or two to load each log. it is a rolling load not dragging

My exact reasoning for suggesting he just run it off the starting battery. Not a long enough or large enough load to hurt the battery. Newer small engines have slightly larger stators since they started putting all the extras on everything these days.

[Daburner87]

Thanks for all the advice.  I will need to find some quick connect/disconnect cables and figure a nice clean way to route them so they don't get in the way.

[Daburner87]

Well I ordered a winch and now I am really wandering about how I can use this same winch to turn logs...

Where can I buy a cheap end hook from a log cant?

[btulloh]

Logrite will sell you a hook. Or you might find a pair of GOOD log tongs to steal one from. Forget cheap, you want good.  Logrite hooks are not real expensive, and worth the money. Cheap chino will be frustrating and get you a trip to the ER.

[Daburner87]

You know, I only said cheap so I can see if it will work with my setup, but I can just take the hook off my 60" Logrite and test it out.   I wonder if that "Mega" replacement hook would be best for turning logs with my winch.  

[btulloh]

Good idea.  That should give you a good idea what will work snd that hook is probably just right. I'm just guessing, but the mega hook is probably too big.  

A little less convenient but has a couple advantages over a hook - I put three turns of the cable around the log like you would on a capstan. Light hand tension on the loose end allows for a full grip on the log, a little slippage, or a complete stop if slack all the tension. Putting the three wraps around the log is not as convenient as the hook, but it gives more control. Plus it's something to get results if you don't hsve hook at the moment. As always, there's more than one way to skin a cat. (But the cat usually doesn't like any of them, but this a different topic.)

[Daburner87]

Ok winch came in, it's only 4500lb, but should be fine parbuckling.

I'm kinda hung up on wiring it so the wires don't get in the way.  Someone mentioned Anderson quick disconnects.   So if I run a set of wires from the battery down to the side of one posts with a anderson quick disconnect, then run one along the side of the trailer frame to the winch post, and another quick disconnect, then a short wire from the winch to connect to that?  Does that make sense?  I don't wanna over complicate it, but obviously can't have it connected when milling, and my winch post is already pretty *DanG heavy, dragging all that wire around each time is silly.  Just not sure if I can have two sets of disconnects in one line?

I did this image real quick, the winch post comes out of the log dog after loading a log, and simply quick disconnect from the connection, put it off to the side.  Then quick disconnect at the battery side, and begin milling.  Thoughts?