4, 5, 6 heads, how many is enough?

scsmith42 · September 20, 2014, 09:43:00 AM

Okra, I have a small setup with a 4 head Baker moulder, a Mattison SLR, an Oliver jointer/planer, and a jump saw. We are not setup to profile the ends of the boards.

I'm probably around a 5 hour drive for you if you want to stop by and see the setup.

If you're planning on doing high volume, then the recommendations from others for a 5 or 6 head machine is spot on. They will significantly outproduce the Baker and Logosol machines. If I am understanding Gene correctly, the "flooring machines" that he refers to will also cut the profile on the ends of the boards. I don't think that a standard moulder will do that.

When I was in the market for a moulder most of the used 5 - 6 head machines available at that time would not do wide boards (greater than 7"), which is why I selected the Baker (good for 12" width).

Dust collection is an important factor. When we are in flooring mode 8 hours a day we fill up a tandem axle dump truck at least once every 2 -3 days. It takes a lot of suction to extract from the moulder too.

With the small machines (Baker, Logosol), it is a good idea to presize the blank. Our steps for flooring production are 1) skip plane the blanks to obtain consistent thickness at least 1/4" thicker than finished thickness. 2) straight line rip the boards into consistent width and straight blanks. 3) run them through the moulder to put the profile on them, and 4) end trim the boards to 90 degrees.

The Baker moulder has less tearout and feed problems if the rough stock is around 12% - 14% MC, as compared with 6%.

GAmillworker · September 21, 2014, 11:25:40 PM

Okrafarmer,
We have two moulders both are leadermac the first one is a 4X9 five head second is a 6X12 6 head. One was purchased thru IRSAuctions.com the other was purchased as a bank repo.
We run alot of flooring for other people and businesses. We have a 8K bdft kiln as well.
We have invested around 150K into our setup with dust collection, kiln, moulders, 30" double surface planer, and mattison SLR. If you would like to visit us please PM me. We are about 3.5 hrs away from you.
Just a little perspective. For us it cost between 25-50 cents a sqft to ship finished flooring LTL. If someone brings me rough lumber heavy 4/4 thick (1"full to 1-1/8) in long lengths we can double surface, straight line, and mold into t&g flooring with back relief around 2500 sqft per day. Depending on hard or soft wood and the width of the flooring our fee is $1.25-2.00 sqft.

Okrafarmer · September 23, 2014, 02:43:20 AM

I could have stopped in, I traveled the length of Georgia a few days ago. But I have decided not to do the flooring thing for now. I would like to, but it just didn't seem profitable enough to jump into. The numbers you quote are consistent with what else I have seen-- not a lot of profit margin there unless you really seriously have your ducks in a row.

Peter Drouin · September 23, 2014, 05:45:41 AM

Quote from: Okrafarmer on September 23, 2014, 02:43:20 AM
Not a lot of profit margin there unless you really seriously have your ducks in a row.

That's what it's all about :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

red oaks lumber · September 23, 2014, 06:12:59 AM

not profitable enough?

redprospector · September 23, 2014, 11:00:44 PM

If you don't "really, seriously, have your ducks in a row"...nothing is going to produce a good profit. That's what separates the people who stay in business over the long run from those who don't.

Okrafarmer · September 24, 2014, 10:15:56 AM

Actually there are some things that can be profitable without having your ducks in a row. Like owning a tree removal service. Where you can go out there, and with a minimal amount of equipment, bring in $400 in a day for $50 worth of expenses. You do have to have a couple of ducks in a row to sustain that, but there is a potential of a huge profit margin for minimal investment. I don't like anything where you sell something at any less than a 50% profit. I have a friend with a roofing company, and those are the kinds of profits he gets. It can be done. But not with some things.

beenthere · September 24, 2014, 10:23:01 AM

QuoteLike owning a tree removal service. Where you can go out there, and with a minimal amount of equipment, bring in $400 in a day for $50 worth of expenses.

I'd be interested how you figure the $50 expenses. What does that include, and what does it not include?

Bucket boom truck? Insurance? hired help? rigging?

Just curious...

red oaks lumber · September 24, 2014, 01:03:42 PM

you'll only sell something if will bring 50% profit? if that was me i still be sitting on my first sale ;)

redprospector · September 25, 2014, 12:19:57 AM

My Dad taught me that money isn't made a dollar at a time, it's made 1/10th of a penny at a time. You try to figure out ways to shave a couple of seconds off of this operation, and a few seconds off of that operation, at the end of the day you've put dollars in your pocket.
Owning a "tree removal service" requires ducks to be in a row like anything else, if not more so. beenthere only covered a few of the expenses involved, but they demand consideration.
Insurance is a must, because everyone screws up once in a while, and in tree removal that can get expensive quick.
Hired help: You have to physically climb a lot of trees in "tree removal", and climbing without a ground man is a fools errand.
I've been in the "tree removal" business before, and yes there is potential for a "huge" profit margin. There is also a very real potential for a "huge" loss, especially if the removal doesn't go exactly as planned.
Anything you do as your own business you really need to get those ducks lined up.

Peter Drouin · September 26, 2014, 10:38:08 PM

Quote from: Okrafarmer on September 24, 2014, 10:15:56 AM
Actually there are some things that can be profitable without having your ducks in a row. Like owning a tree removal service. Where you can go out there, and with a minimal amount of equipment, bring in $400 in a day for $50 worth of expenses. You do have to have a couple of ducks in a row to sustain that, but there is a potential of a huge profit margin for minimal investment. I don't like anything where you sell something at any less than a 50% profit. I have a friend with a roofing company, and those are the kinds of profits he gets. It can be done. But not with some things.

:D :D :D :D

Okrafarmer · September 30, 2014, 10:06:57 PM

When I had my tree removal service, my expenses were about 1/3 of my gross intake. I did not own any equipment other than my pickup truck, which I bought for $750, and trailer, which I paid $300 for. I had two chainsaws which I bought new, one for about $250, and one for about $350. I had a few ropes, and I paid $120 or so a month for liabilitiy insurance. Insurance on my truck was probably about $50/month. Other than that it was mainly fuel, lube, tools, and repairs. I had a few other total expenses. I have gotten rid of the records now, but I netted around $20,000 for the year with around $10,000 of expenses. I included every expense I could come up with, and my tax preparer helped me come up with a few that I didn't think of myself. That was about 9 years ago.