Can you lend me some advice on a tree I'm about to drop?

[williaty]

We had mostly ash on our property and the EAB has kicked our butts. Because many of the biggest trees were already dead when we bought the place, I've left it to mother nature to bring them down just for the safety on not having to touch them. I've felled a fair number of small and mid-size trees myself that were close enough to the used areas of the property to cause a risk to structures or to places we frequently work. I started with the smallest and "live-est" trees and gradually moved up to larger and deader ones. I've been felling trees each year, leaving some of it where it fell but harvesting most of the trunks to heat the house all winter. Anyway, I've got one tree left that I really need to fish or cut bait on and I'm thinking this is the weekend to do it.

The reason I've put it off is that it's bigger DBH (probably right around 20"), taller (best guess is 75-85 feet), and deader than I've cut before and it's one I think I need to take seriously. The bark is still on but while I was doing some recon, brushing out, and clearing an escape path today, I noticed that the bark isn't actually well attached to the trunk. It's like it's stuck in a few places but bubbled out over most of the tree. The tree tends to loose one or two large limbs (6" plus diameter) each time we get a storm that brings in 50+ mph winds. Not having seen it in it's prime, I can only guess but I'd say it has about half its crown limbs still remaining up there. It's right on the edge of a steep ridge, so I only have access to one side of the tree and only have an escape route to that same side. The ridge runs steeply downhill and our barn is at the bottom. If the tree falls more than 60* off to the right from where I want to drop it, it'll flatten the barn. There are potentially some trees in the way that are perfectly healthy and beefy enough to stop this one from falling all the way over to the barn but that's not something I want to rely on, you know?

So that's the bad news. The good news is that it has about a 5* lean in the direction I want it to fall. The remaining crown limbs are about 70% on the side I want it to fall towards, giving it a substantial crown weight bias in the direction I want it to go. Eyeballing it, that bias does probably point 10* closer to the barn than the exact direction I'd prefer it to fall, but that still means it's at least 50* away from the barn.

I was up there today and brushed out and cleared an escape route, as I said. I also chalked on the tree where I want the notch, hinge, and back-cut. I have a plan for where I want to put it and how to get it there, but that's all based off book learning. Ideally, I'm planing on cutting the hinge, then starting the back cut from the back of the tree (no plunged back-cut) and wedging as soon as the bar is in far enough to clear the tip of the wedge. I'm operating under the plan that the wedges plus the lean and crown weight in the direction I want it to fall are going to be enough to take the tree over once I cut the back cut in far enough to allow the wedge+weight to take over.


Is there anything I haven't thought of? Anything I need to be especially careful of given what I've described?

Intellectually, I think I've got this but I'm also aware that it's the biggest and most dangerous tree I've tried yet by a fair margin so my self preservation instincts are kicking in a bit.

[Skeans1]

I don't have any ash never played with any but when playing with snags or dead wood I treat them all the same a deep long humboldt face or a block face, wedge in by hand, a second wedge to help watch the tree well cutting besides watching the top. If something has a slight lean back I'll start a back cut like I would for jack seat but instead I'll pound a wedge it takes some time to learn how much to do and when.

[Ljohnsaw]

No ash experience either, but...  Is there a chance that there is rot in this tree since it is the deadest one you are cutting?  I guess you will see when you cut your wedge but be aware of the possibility - things could go very bad very fast if the center is rotted.

[BargeMonkey]

 Both of the other guys have good advice, especially being dead I would wedge it early. On dead ash I would leave alot more than than normal, I bore cut 99% of the time, heavy tab with 2 wedges, cut the back and hope for the best. Alot of people think windy days are bad but depending on how ??? your tree is i would use every option possible if your concerned about squishing the barn. 

[mills]

williaty,
One of your major concerns needs to be the dead limbs. They don't call them widow makers for nothing. Best thing is if you can stay out from under any limbs while you're bringing it down. Especially when driving wedges. Every blow to the wedge sends vibration through the tree. On dead trees I wasn't sure of I have stood out from under any limbs and smacked the trunk with an ax a few times. Hopefully, that will tell you how stable the limbs are. 
Be safe. 

[square1]

Pull the bark off (you said it's loose) and examine for vertical splits. I've chained the  trunks of a couple large EAB killed ash because if they had split while the back cut was being made there was no telling how the tree would react. You may also get a better feel for the soundness of the tree as a whole by removing the bark.

Given your description of the conditions your plan sounds good (from what I can see from here).

[Southside]

Your plan sounds OK. Like Barge said I would look to bore cut it, reduce the chance of a barber chair. One thing with dead Ash is that they will snap clean off depending on how soft they have become so you want that stick to go when you tell it to go, you don't want it to start to lean and then hold there, tremendous stress will be on the wood and could cause it to break off 15' in the air. A bore cut can still use wedges to help with direction. 

One thing that stood out, and maybe I am picturing it wrong is that you said this is basically on a side hill. I did read about the crown limbs but are you planning to fell it up or down hill, judging the lean on those can sure be tricky as the tree stress overcomes the fact it grew on a hill. 

[mike_belben]

Go out there with a long 1/2" wood drill on your cordless and bore some holes, slowly enough to inspect the wood chips for soundness or rot, itll be pretty obvious in coloration and hardness between the two.  This internal exam should direct the rest of your strategy.


If its pretty sound wood, fell as normal, but i suggest you apply a dutchman hinge to pull it away from the barn.  Dont let the dutchman pie charts online confuse you, its good enough to aim your notch as normal, just leave the hinge thicker on the side opposite the barn and thinner on the side towards it.  If enough sound wood in the hinge, this will help ensure that the tree doesnt lunge for the barn.  However if its rotted hinge, all bets are off.  In that case i would use a slingshot to launch a throw bag and tracer line, then send up a bull rope and pull that taught from a distance with a comealong, opposite the barn.  Put that dog on a leash so to speak.  With the crown missing the weight balance can be very deceptive.

Dont hang around under it beating wedges to get it started going over.  if the hinge is too fat whittle some more hinge or nip the side of the hinge a bit.  

If it pinches the saw, dont try to save the saw, run first, then re-evaluate from a distance.  If the tree starts exploding, dont try to run with the saw, throw it and bolt for your life.  i wouldnt strap on any gear belts that are gonna prohibit a serious sprint.  An exploding trunk comes down like the trade centers, all at once.

Standing dead wood probably kills more pros than anything due to unpredictability and falling debris.  Have a partner standing back with a good running, sharp, fueled and warmed up backup saw outside the fall zone, hopefully on a motorized vehicle.  This is the person who is there to cut that tree off of you, heaven forbid, and get your limp body to an emergency room. Have cell phones, first aid kit and a plan for evacuation.  The car needs gas.

Priority list
1- lives
2- barn
3- other trees

Dont think twice about taking down a good looking other tree that this thing might hang up in and blow apart.


Baileys sell all this arborist stuff.  Get a helmet too, limbs are whatll kill you.

[CX3]

If you've got the lean then lay it down. Make sure your hinge is thin enough to bend. Dead trees don't have a lot of weight in the top and sometimes the hinge will hold them in place. A thin hinge is a must on dead trees if you have the lean in your favor.

[WV Sawmiller]

CX3,

   The thin hinge sounds good on a good, green oak or such but ash tend to get real brittle and I would be worried about that aspect. I would definitely bore cut it like Barge said to help reduce the chance of a barber chair. Be real careful. 

   Any way to hook a long cable and snatch block to a heavy piece of equipment, notch the direction to fall then pull it down? Not a big one but the last ash I had in my lot I did that with my little tractor. Only about 12" but it pulled right over and I did not have to linger under it.

[CX3]

I'd rather have a thin hinge pull out than be wedging on a dead tree. That's a sure way to meet a cute nurse.

[Skeans1]

If a tree is that bad and solid that's large enough I'll throw a jack in the back cut, but never ever bore cut them when jacking you need to see the progression of the stem.

[mike_belben]

When you are jacking a tree do you put the hinge close to the jack or far?  Deep notch or shallow?

[CX3]

Mike he's talking about the open face bore cut. The jack will be away from the hinge. And make dang sure it don't slip out it will take your shins with it

[Skeans1]

It depends on tree size I've had the hinge near the jack before say on a 24" back leaner. We will put the back cut in first then the cuts for the jack seat, apply pressure from the jack, put your face in afterwards. At one point I had a set of true tree jacks they're different then a bottle jack, the bottom is where they have the ram end there's a one inch plate with a circle machines out to allow the barrel to swing well lifting.

[mike_belben]

Mike he's talking about the open face bore cut. The jack will be away from the hinge. And make dang sure it don't slip out it will take your shins with it

I understood him, was just asking about distance from jack lift point to hinge.  I know how its done but havent had to do it yet.  Not sure if you set up for jacking different than wedging.   Assuming live and sound wood.
 

[Skeans1]

A jack is setup roughly the same most of the time we shoot for a 1/3 to 1/2 deep on the face, when doing this it lends itself to humbodlt faces or a block face. We do jack dead wood there's just extra care taken.

[LittleJohn]

My personal preference is a winch, with a snatch block; that way you and winch are out of the direct target path.  I am not knocking anyone else's plan, I just always seem to fall back to the winch method.

  ...and very slowly proceed with back cut, at a certain point it will go, but based on cut and winch operation together you should be able to bring that tree down in method that doesn't destroy the barn

[WV Sawmiller]

   I have several long 1/4" cables and 3 snatch blocks. Two are the loop type from HF or TSC and are the ones I mostly use as they are much lighter and easier to carry around. I use my ATV, JD 750 and have even used my truck when conditions were right.

  Another big advantage of using cable and a snatch block is you can have your equipment pointed downhill and take advantage of gravity to help add weight to an ATV or such by pointing them downhill while pulling the tree or log uphill or on a side slope. The biggest advantage is you are far away from the tree when it falls. Often I just use the equipment to pull but sometimes I chain my ATV to a tree and use the ATV winch to pull.

  I know you can use multiple snatch blocks to gain some mechanical advantage but I mostly use my for the directional pulling aspect. If you don't have a couple of snatch blocks and cable in your inventory you are missing out on a very valuable tool.

[Skeans1]

In all the years of falling I've done I've only had to pull over less then a dozen trees most of the stuff has been jacked because of location. I do know of a few guys killed from pulling trees and we've all seen the ones that fail from a line breaking or a hinge that fails pulling the equipment with the tree.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I have learned to be extra cautious in the amount of cable I use. I had one case where the tree landed entirely too close to the back of my ATV and ever since I make sure I have at least 50% more cable than the height of the tree I am cutting. I figure in a worst case scenario the way I set up my cable and snatch blocks it is my equipment at risk - not me.

   There is a time and place when I am confident a cable and snatch block and prime mover is appropriate for felling a tree and many cases where it is not. 

    If it is a question of safety don't do it. Hire an arborist with the experience and equipment to do it safely.

[BargeMonkey]

 I've got a piece of 3" spectra rated at 150tons, we call it the rubber band, used behind my 440D when we need to yank over trees, honestly when someone as a "homeowner" gets to the point they start hooking 1/4 cable and trying to directionally fall your in over your head. might work 99x but when it does go bad it's not going to be good. Normally if you can just send it do it, I bite my pride sometimes and pay the tree service guy the 500 bucks to knock one down, alot cheaper than an insurance claim or someone getting killed. 

[WV Sawmiller]

   Good point BM. I use my 1/4" cable in my woods to help direct between other trees and such and not around homes or structures. It would never be considered heavy enough to protect something that valuable.

[John Mc]

If a tree is that bad and solid that's large enough I'll throw a jack in the back cut, but never ever bore cut them when jacking you need to see the progression of the stem.

Why do you need a jack when it's already got 5˚ of lean and some extra crown weight almost in the direction of the intended fall?

[Skeans1]

With dead wood it can be cheap insurance to be sure you won't meet a widow maker, plus having a structure behind something I like the extra insurance. Have I beat wedges in a large dead Doug fir? Yes but normally I'll swing them or put in a super deep face 50 or 65 percent to keep from beating and to release the tree or snag from the stump once it's going so it can't crumble back at me.