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Twisted white oak

Started by esarratt, June 03, 2019, 05:18:29 PM

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esarratt

I have a 2' diameter white oak with some twist.

I was thinking of cutting off 1" boards on each side so I could get a nice 12" x 12", but I am worried it will twist.

And then I thought the wood might be better utilized as shingles.

Any experience in utilizing wood with twist?


GAB

Quote from: esarratt on June 03, 2019, 05:18:29 PM
I have a 2' diameter white oak with some twist.

I was thinking of cutting off 1" boards on each side so I could get a nice 12" x 12", but I am worried it will twist.

And then I thought the wood might be better utilized as shingles.

Any experience in utilizing wood with twist?
Go ahead and go for it.
The worst that can happen is you end up or wind up with some expensive designer firewood.
Remember: Nuttin ventured nuttin gained.
Pics before and after would be nice.
GAB
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Brad_bb

What are you planning to use the 12x12 for?  You might be able to use for a post, not sure, depending on your judgement of whether it has any shake, or if it's very solid.  In timberframing you don't want grain runout.  In Steve Chappell's book, "A timber Framer's workshop" he has a chart and paragraph taking about grain slope and how much reduction in strength you would have for the amount of slope/runout.  In any case, for any significant runout, you don't want to use it for a horizontal beam or rafter.  Posts are more forgiving as they are mostly in compression unless you have a knee wall on top which will impart some bending stress.

Cut it over the size you want, let it dry for a year, see how much it moved and remill as needed.  I do this alot because I have a beam planer.   I let beams sit in the morton building and then plane them later to final size, hopefully after they've done most of their moving.

Is your oak right hand twist or left hand twist.  Left hand is supposed to be the worst.  I have an clear oak sitting in my log yard with significant left hand twist and I'm perplexed what to do with it.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Don P

One species caveat, white oak generally starts off with a right hand spiral, straightens up in middle age and then goes to left spiral in old age. I agree with checking slope of grain and if acceptable saw, dry as long as possible and resize after they twist if you can.

A rule of thumb to keep in the back of your mind for posts, 1:12 only needs to be checked for compression. For every inch of thickness in the least dimension the post can be 1 foot tall. A 12x12 post could be 12' tall without needing to check for buckling, it will fail in compression first. As a post gets more slender than that ratio its bearing capacity begins to be derated as buckling of a slender column begins to come into play. The mind game to play to visualize this is to stand up a chunk of firewood and imagine loading it to failure, it is going to fail by being smushed. An 8' tall 8x8 post is one tough post. Then stand up a yardstick and push down on it, being a slender column it will fail by buckling. The stiffness of the particular species and grade is factored in as you look at the column stability factor there.

For the heavy timber grading rules, including maximum slope of grain, NeLma has them posted here;
https://www.nelma.org/wp-content/uploads/grade2017_Section6.pdf

nativewolf

Quote from: Brad_bb on June 08, 2019, 03:11:34 PM
What are you planning to use the 12x12 for?  You might be able to use for a post, not sure, depending on your judgement of whether it has any shake, or if it's very solid.  In timberframing you don't want grain runout.  In Steve Chappell's book, "A timber Framer's workshop" he has a chart and paragraph taking about grain slope and how much reduction in strength you would have for the amount of slope/runout.  In any case, for any significant runout, you don't want to use it for a horizontal beam or rafter.  Posts are more forgiving as they are mostly in compression unless you have a knee wall on top which will impart some bending stress.

Cut it over the size you want, let it dry for a year, see how much it moved and remill as needed.  I do this alot because I have a beam planer.   I let beams sit in the morton building and then plane them later to final size, hopefully after they've done most of their moving.

Is your oak right hand twist or left hand twist.  Left hand is supposed to be the worst.  I have an clear oak sitting in my log yard with significant left hand twist and I'm perplexed what to do with it.
Ahh, for me the decision is easy...with a log like that it is off to the mill at $3/bdft and you can use the money to buy one you like better.  
Liking Walnut

jimparamedic

Saw your cant if it twists then saw it into blocks and make shingles

Brad_bb

Well it's a good thing I didn't turn it into firewood.  @Don P  was right!

This is the log I was fretting over what to do with, since it had bad left hand twist.  It also had a 3ft long hollow at the butt end which I trimmed and ended up with a 12 foot log exactly.  I decided to cut a beam from it and see if it was any good as Don P suggested.  Here it is on the mill. You can see the twist.


 
I believe it is a Burr Oak based on the deeply furrowed bark it had.
I milled it to 10.5"x10.5" x 12'.  Right after milling, I put it outside and it got rained on.  So don't think I'm one of those guys dumping water on my wood! But the water did help to see the grain in the photo.


 

 

No Twist in the beam.  The left hand twist only seemed to go about an inch into the heartwood.  After that, there was no twist as you can see in the pics.  Thanks, Don P.  I don't cut a lot of Oak so I'd never dealt with this phenomenon before.  I'll let it sit in the pole barn for 6 months or more
and then plane it to a true 10x10.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Don P

No, thank you. I needed an atta boy tonite. I've been typing and retyping the heat out of a letter to the building official who is throwing the book and every possible obstruction at me for trying to house a homeless man. I'm glad something seems to be going right today  :).

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