Today was the official running of the diamond wire saw I have been helping a friend build. It arose from a pile of wire saw parts, and other industrial surplus. It was modified to cut larger blocks of marble, up to about 20 tons. I was told you don't want to mess with anything smaller than a mini-van. :D We've been working on the saw for about 4 1/2 years, it's great to see it finally run. 8)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/wiresaw1.jpg)
This block was taken out of the quarry across the valley from me. It will be sawn into 24" square floor tiles.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/wiresaw2.jpg)
Now thats a SAW 8) 8) 8)
nice piece dave,your always building something,are you sawing much timber?
I went to Marble Colorado years ago to see where the marble was mined that was used in building the monuments in Washington D.C. The old timers said that a cable was used to cut it out of the mountain. I didn't understand the process then, but I'm pretty sure that it is simular to this. Do you have a close up pic of the wire?
I don't have a close up, but I could get one at some point. When sawing blocks out of a mountain, you drill down from the top of the bench to the depth of the block you desire, then you drill into the face to the bottom of the top hole. Then you feed the wire through to a machine that has only one drive wheel. Then you run the wire and it cuts the block out. There are several steps to it, but once the block is freed, an inflatable pad is slipped into the vertical cut, and is used to push the block over onto a pile of small quarry ruble to cushion it. The blocks can be 50 or more tons. Explosives are not used as they will create shot cracks that will ruin the stone. There are also giant chainsaw like tools mounted on crawlers that will saw the bottom of the block off. Lasers have been tried, but they only leave a paper thin cut, which you cannot get the pads into, and also will close up immediately. Cuts a couple inches wide will close up. As my friend says, the mountain is just reminding you who is really in charge. :D
beav39, I haven't been sawing this winter, but will be again soon. Going to cut some sycamore for Q sawing, and some big pines for plank flooring.
About the cable, I got the idea that it was just a plain ordinary cable and have no idea of it's diameter. I can only imagine how they did that back in the day.
A diamond cable is about 3/16" in diameter. It has little brass "beads" on it that have diamond bort embedded in them. Basically just little chips of industrial diamond. As the brass wears away, it reveals more bort. The beads are about 3/8" diameter. There is a spring about an inch long in between each bead. Earlier methods of sawing stone was with a crosscut saw, with no teeth, and sand. As the saw wore down, it would become thin in the middle. Picture an 8' piece of 1/8"x 4" wide piece of sheet steel. On the steam gang saws, these saw blades would wear down to less than 2", then snap. Before the crosscut, was feathers and wedges. This is still the fastest way to break down large blocks into manageable, somewhat cube shaped pieces. As we work around the quarry, we find a lot of these broken blades, among other treasures. I found a hand forged stone set, it must have been laying there for a hundred years. We have also found many hooks and other signs of rigging.
I've seen a special, (maybe on the Discovery Channel,) about cutting stone with a wire saw. Quite a process. They were taking out massive chunks of rock.
I kept looking for the saw in the pic but couldn't find it. Then I "Zoomed" my vision out. :o
Does the rock move through the saw? How is the power feed set up? What kind of time does it take to cut that piece in the pic? ;D
Looks like to me the rock is on a frame which sits on two rails. Rock moves through the wire. Those bandwheels have to be massive.
That's very impressive Dave. A video of this would be very much appreciated.
That is neat.
Charlie and I were taken to a Marble Quarry in North Georgia where Pink Marble was mined. It was very unique and was used in the Capitol. Blocks were drilled and broken from the mountain with wooden wedges that were soaked in water after their insertion. Sometimes small charges were used. The blocks were treated very carefully to keep them from breaking.
Inside of the "shop" was a large wire saw that cut sheets from the blocks. Some of these sheets were turned into gravestones and we watched as a rubber mat/stencil was applied and sandblasting created the pictures and words.
I'll never forgt that trip.
The wire saw they used was just plain wire. Water was run onto the moving wire and the slurry that was created from the cutting helped the wire to cut. In a matter of hours, huge blocks were sliced like bread.
Just when I was starting to think my homemade mill had a wide cut ;) :D ;D
I had to look twice to see the mill too.
How big are those bandwheels?
What HP?
I hate to ask what a diamond blade costs.
Human ingenuity always amazes me.
That's nothing. I've cut rocks alnost that big with my Wood-Mizer. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I also found the saw after my 2nd look. I couldn't figure out why you took a picture of the building and told us there was a saw (in there). ;D
Nice, I have been thinking about working in rock more and more. While that is too big for me, I would be interested in wire cost as well. Most of my cutting would be sandstone salvaged from barns, cutting to use in furniture.
Ironwood
Here is a different angle. The wheels move up and down on the two columns you see on the left. Between the two columns is a 2" acme screw. This is on a variable speed drive to control the feed rate. The block is stationary during the cut, but can be rotated on the car. If you wanted to make a cube, you would make cuts every 90 degrees. The car also slides in and out. At present, the car is not motorized, but the two cars inside for the radial saw are.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/wiresaw4.jpg)
Diamond wire is anywhere from $85 to $125 per meter. This saw probably uses 25 meters. The saw surprisingly only uses a 10HP DC motor on a variable speed drive. It is not as fast as the radial saw, but will handle much larger blocks, whereas the radial is limited to about a 25" depth of cut. Previously to work up a big block required sawing many parallel cuts across the top of the block to a uniform depth, then snapping them off. Just like you would with a timber and a circular saw making a lap joint. The radial saw has been modified to do this automatically, but still requires a significant amount of time. Now, you can have a block on the wire saw getting sized, while you are making parts on the radial saw. Each of these saws has a pair of cabinets full of PLCs, VFDs and miles of wires to connect everything.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/wiresaw3.jpg)
Wow! That is impressive. I bet you guys had to eat good while building that. Specifically, I bet it took a lot of grits. ;D
No grits were harmed during the construction of this machine. 8) :D
Impressive and cool - thank you for the pictures :)
I saw a program today where they where cutting soap stone with a wire and they had a close up of it (wire) .It is exactly how you described it :P :) They had drill a vertical hole and a horizontal hole and fished the wire through and crimped it together, then fed it through the band wheel and proceeded to cut a big block out of the mountain .
All the time I watched I thought of this thread ..... ;D 8) 8)
You never know what we are going to know about here on the Forestry Forum. :) Very cool Dave, Thanks 8)
Quote from: isawlogs on March 08, 2009, 09:10:38 PM
They had drill a vertical hole and a horizontal hole and fished the wire through and crimped it together, then fed it through the band wheel and proceeded to cut a big block out of the mountain .
Marcell, what happens when they get to the crimp? Did they pull the crimp through the cut or reverse the direction each time?
The crimp goes through the cut. It is about an inch and a quarter long. The radius of the cut is never small enough to kink the wire of the crimp.
The crimp just pulled through like Dave said , it sure was cutting at a good speed too 8)
Hate to bring this topic up again, but what are the chances of using a diamond wire saw on a WM with the belts removed? Or use an old band with the teeth ground off and water slurry to cut till the blade wears out?
Dont know what would happen , no need to use a Woodmizer for that test any ol mill will do . ;) Give it a shot and bring this back up with a report :P
I just said WM cause that's what I have. Not biased or anything ;) I sent a couple request about diamond coated bands, noone lists their prices :P
I have an old Wood-Mizer Way, or maybe it was the earlier Wood-Mizer News that had an article about a man in Miami cutting "Miami Oolite" on his LT40. I think his name was Barry Masin (sp), but it's been years since I read the article. I could probably find it if you wanted. He was still cutting wood, so I suspect he was just switching back and forth between a toothed band and a diamond encrusted band. I wouldn't want all the slurry around a bandmill myself, too abrasive for my tastes.
The wire saw has gone through a couple of upgrades, and is working like a champ.
I was thinking the same about the slurry. It doesn't seem like it would be too hard to build a small wire saw.
I got puddinstones we can experiment on! ;)
Jeff, if I figure something out I'll let you know, and I'd be happy to cut your puddin stones! ;D
If you look around, you might find a big old vertical bandsaw. My friend that built the big saw has a vertical bandsaw with 42" wheels that he is going to convert to wire, although he may be using some leftover wire wheels. A wire saw wheel has a deep groove designed to capture a rubber "tire". I don't think I have any close ups anywhere.
Moved a couple of saw blocks back to the shop this weekend. 6.5 and 5.4 tons. These are on the small side., have a bunch of 12 tonners to bring home.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/IMG_20160723_153650033_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1469403357)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/IMG_20160723_152434007_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1469403441)
Yes,small is right. I have some bigger ones in my field. ;D
Some videos on U-tube...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=908jVbHjrNE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgn7d6NZuPA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS1uWigmjTQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FcMpNLR7YI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DySCBORU64