Alaskan Chainsaw Mill

[sawinmontana]

I picked up this morning an older Alaskan mill that a friend let me borrow. I've never used one and have a few Questions. It has a helper handle one one end and looks like a double ended bar. Can I hook two saws to it? Would two Stihl 044 work? Would one 064 be better or worse? It looks like it would have about a 28" cut.

I was going to set up a string line on each side of the log, and then use two 2x4 for rails, set these to the string and use a few spikes to support the boards and then keep moving them ahead as I saw.

The logs are Douglas Fir and Western Larch, between 12" and 20" on the small end. Most of them are 28' but a few are 42'. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Scott

[Kevin]

Your slabbing jig won't work well.
The first cut affects every other board that follows .
By using that method the boards will be very uneven and uuuugly.
You need a good slabbing rail or a plank that is fully supported the entire length of the log.
I wouldn't mill with anything less than a single 60cc saw.
Have a peek at my pictures on the Milling Masters.

[ADfields]

If you have a aluminum extension ladder that can be used for the slabbing jig, 18 foot ladder (10' closed) is great for 8 foot lumber and so on.   Wedge it at every other rung so it wont sag on you.
Andy

[sawinmontana]

Thanks for in info guys! If you level the log, and level the ladder shouldn't you be able to keep sliding it ahead to do longer logs?

I stopped by the saw shop with it. It has .404 chain on it so I guess they need to order me a new sprocket for my 044.
I thought I could use a 064 but that one isn't available. So I going ahead with my 044. Has anybody used to powerheads before?

Scott

[Kevin]

The problem I have with ladders is that they are too wide and the side rails don't ride on the log most of the time which can cause them to have some play, depending on the size of log you're milling.
I've never had the need for twin screws because I take the side slabs off with the mini mill and work with a square cant which is considerably smaller in size than the log.
You can only work with one section of an extesion ladder.

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Scott,
That 044 is going to be working pretty hard-out to do any milling.  Because you are ripping across the grain, its very punishing on the saw.  You dont mention if your 404 chain is ripping chain.  Thats something else to check.  Whatever you do, dont try to rip with standard cutting chain.  You may already know this, Im just throwing pointers out here!  
2 044's would be better for sure, if youve got them.  Make sure they are putting out plenty of oil.
You really must take the time to get your first cut spot on, or as Kev sez (hey Kevin, theres a good handle for you!   ;) ) all your following cuts will be out.  Ive seen it done, where the board (like a 12x2) is slid along the timber as you go for the first cut, supported on those large spikes (pre levelled) driven into the timber, but its not ideal.  Myself, I would only slide the board up a little at a time.  Sometimes the length of the boards or rafters wanted dictate finding a solution like this.  Its not ideal, but I could see it working if the time is spent prior, and frequent checks are made as you cut.  Good luck!
By the by, theres a copy of Malloffs book on ebay now at $15.  A bargain if you can get it. They can go for over $100!  Just search " Malloff "
Its got heaps of good info in it, even for its age.
Cheers
Charlie.

[Kevin]

Kev sez .

Charlie, I think you have me mixed up with Simon.  :D

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Kevin,

I can see it now:
Cue flashing lights and deep announcers voice-

"Appearing nightly, exclusively on the Forestry Forum, helping with chainsaw related questions......"

Cue drum roll and lights dimming, suddenly a spotlight spears through the darkened room-

".....its KEV SEZ!!"

Cue Kevin, bursting through the curtain.......

Well, what do you reckon??  :D ;D :D ;D ;) ;)
Cheers
Charlie.

[Oregon_Rob]

Sawin
You are getting great advice from a couple of guys who have done a log of milling. Your 044 has about the same specs as my husky 372xp and I think you are asking a lot from it. I milled some doug fir last year, but maxium cut was about 16". It did fine with that, but I tried some apple up to 20" and quickly decided I needed more saw. If you can go with 2 saws I would guess it would be a lot better.
Charlie,
BTY, I have used standard chain and not really had any problems with it other than a rough surface. What problems have you seen?
I am hoping to do milling, but we addopted two children in Feb and my extra cricular activities are some what put to the side for now.
I almost forgot, Have fun, I sure do!
Rob

[sawinmontana]

Thanks agin guys! It will probably be next weekend before I get a chance to try this I'll let you know how it goes. Maybe by then I'll find a larger saw.

Kiwi it does have ripping chain I think, two top plates cut away, two left whole. This needs to be sharpened almost straight across, right?

Kiwi, I'm trying to angle a job next fall in Anarctica. If I get it I know I will be going thru Christchurch on the way down and back. How close is that to you?

Scott

[Tom]

Antartica?!    What kind'a trees do they have?

[sawinmontana]

They won't let us cut any around here any more so you gotta go some where!!

Actually there are some research stations down there and I'm hoping to get an equipment operators job, plowing snow and stuff. Mostly I want the trip to New Zealand!!

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Scott,
Yes thats rip chain by the sound of it. Like the Granberg style, with the scoring cutters (no top plate), and then clearing cutters coming through after.  Rather than try to explain it (my two finger typing aint the fastest!), heres a couple of links explaining a bit about it.
http://www.granberg.com/ripchain.html

http://www.chainsawsforsawmills.com/sawchains.htm

http://www.oregonchain.com/spec.htm

Oregon does ripping chain without the top plates taken off.  Kevin put me onto it, 27RA, and its a great chain.  I have a couple of large jpeg pictures explaining the types and cutting angles etc.  If you want I can email them to you as crunching them to post here, I dont think you would be able to read them.  Let me know your email address by private message if youre interested.
Rob -  I wouldnt rip with standard chain, as the workload on the saw is inceased even more, as you have a full compliment of teeth, all trying to take out a good bite of wood.  If your saw is a bit underpowered to start with (as Scotts is), youre just adding to the strain on it.  And definitely dont crosscut with ripping chain!  The kickback from the 0 deg angle is the problem.
Madsens has some good info on it.
http://www.madsens1.com/ripchain.htm

Antarctica would be a great experience.  They have just gone into total darkness till August sometime!  I have an ex Army buddy who went down for a few seasons as a chef, and he had a blast.  Christchuch is in the other island from me, so its not close to me at all!
Sorry Ive taken so long to get back to you, work has been hectic to say the least!  
Cheers
Charlie.

[J Beyer]

Get .325 ripping chain.  From what the guy says that I bought my Alaskan from, .325 is the fastest when compared to 3/8LP or 3/8 regulat ripping chain.

Check out the Yahoo! milling group if you have not already done so. lots of chainsaw sawyers there.

JB

[Tom]

You guys bring that milling group over here and you wouldn't have to go over there. ;D :D

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day JB,
Have you had any problems with the .325 breaking on you?
What saw are you running it on, and also what bar length?
Cheers
Charlie.

[woodbeard]

I have used .325 .063ga on my 090 for milling. I haven't got to use it enough to really test it, but so far it hasn't broke, and is much faster and easier to feed than the .404 skip tooth.
 I now have a 42" .050ga bar in .325 pitch that I am chomping at the bit to try out if it ever dries out enough around here.
 Maybe one of these tornadoes will toss a nice big walnut off the ridge if I disguise it as a mobile home. :D

Scott, if you are using .404 pitch, you might ought to look into a bigger saw. The .404 sprocket is a little bigger than the 3/8.  I've used .404 on my 046 with no trouble, but not for milling. I think the 044 will have a hard time milling with that size sprocket and chain. Two 044's might be just fine though.
Two heads are better than one, right? :D

[sawinmontana]

I haven't got a chance to try it yet. I did find a friend who has a big jonesrud that he said I could use, I'm not sure of the cc's on it. I might try that first and see how it does.

Scott

[J Beyer]

I only have the .370 (aka 3/8LP) chain.  Going to get a .325 setup when I have the extra cash to order the setup.  The .370 setup milled really fast compared to my old .375 or 3/8 regular chain setup.  The .325 setup cuts much faster because the chain can be pushed "harder".

JB

[Kevin]

JB;
Where did you see the 3/8 LP listed as .370?

[J Beyer]

That is the pitch chain on my Stihl 019T. advertised as 3/8LP, it said on the display tag that it was .370  The difference is enough that the 3/8LP chain will not accept a standard 3/8 chain sprocket.  Anyone whoever has used a standard 3/8 sprocket kept on breaking chains.

I think Bailey's lists the 3/8LP chain as .370 pitch.  My dealer did not believe me that there was such a sprocket for my saw, but the guy called his supplier on chainsaw sprockets and had the LP listing for my 036PRO.  It also is not recommended to run this weaker chain on high-powered saws.

Just run with .325/.050 chain.  The chain will simply last longer because of less stretch and longer cutting edge life.

JB

[Kevin]

This is what I've found so far ...

Popular with saws under 2.8 cubic inches. All of Oregon low profile chain will have a 91 (for .050 gauge chain) or 90 (for .043 gauge chain) stamped on the drive link. The narrow cutter design gives these chains less vibration than standard chain. Semi-chisel cutter corner holds up well in dirty, gritty conditions.

Oregon 90VG (.370 pitch x .043 gauge, full comp). ANSI approved as a low-kickback chain. Use a 5/32" file to sharpen. (priced per drive link)

"The 90 series chains are advertised as 3/8 pitch (.375).
Whether they are actually .375 or .370 still remains a mystery to me."


But we are about to find out ...

This is a class act ...

I'm not in the office, but your message, unless it has an attachment, has been forwarded to my home AOL address.  I'll get back to you shortly.

 Thanks for contacting Oregon®!

Best Regards,

George Ruggles
Technical Services Manager
Oregon® Cutting Systems Division
Blount, Inc.


I'm impressed!

[Kevin]

This should make your head spin ...

Francis, please see George's request below.  The answer to Mr. Watson's question (attached) regarding 90VG chain (per Mike Harfst) is:

 

1)  Average overage chain pitch = .3666

 

However, if he is building some sort of fixture for this chain, he may need to know that:

2)  Cutter to TS pitch = .390

3)  Drive Link pitch     = .342

[johncinquo]

Maybe I am reading two ideas in the same thread, so I better ask.  Is the oregon 27RA a .325 chain?  if not, which would be the better way to go?  What is the best place to actually order a couple loops?  I fiinally got an alaskan mill of my own and want to get it set up right.  Will be getting a 36" and 25" loop.  Planning on runnning it with my 066.  

[Kevin]

The 27 is .404 pitch.
What bar do you have?

[johncinquo]

planning on using my stihl bars.  I have an extra GB bar if need be.

[Kevin]

3/8 or 404 pitch .050" or .063"?

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Hey Montana,

As you can see, we guys do sometimes forget what the original question was.  Echoing a previous post,  get hold of Malloff's book,  Chainsaw Lumber Making by Taunton Press.  It is still the best way to get an initial grip on the subject.   :P

If you do a search for posts I have made, you will see comments about chainsaw milling.  ( Some informative, but mostly humorous or tragic!  ;))
Phil L.

[johncinquo]

Geez I had to go check.  Too many toys to keep track of.  I have been running, and therefore my saws are set up to run 3/8 pitch with .050 gauge.  I am assuming the milling chain will be the same, just with different cutter arrangement.  I would hate to change bars and sprockets.  

I see in the granberg manual they offer chains for sale.  Any feedback on what they sell?

Edited my post 10/24/03:  After further inspection, I have 3/8 .050 on my 25" bar, and 404 .063 on my 36" bar.  I am going to start with the "oregon" grind chain first (actual oregon chain), and then if I have problems try the "granberg" style (which will still be oregon chain, just reground)  Confused yet?  Did ya know that other chain makers actually call them that, well now I do.

Thanks for the help and input and directions to the sites.  Man this place is great!

[Kevin]

I've used Granberg chains for milling and can't offer anything positive.

[Minnesota_boy]

All I can say is that every shop in this town that sells chain, sells their own brand or Oregon chain.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Not that I prefer cutting metal with my saw,...

but...

I must have cut 60 to 70 nails with a Stihl ripping chain.
It was a 404pitch, 63 gauge, however.   I only lost one tooth, until the last days of its life, when the teeth were less than 1/8" long.  

As you might expect, though, the 10-deg grind caused the first edge not to last long, when the chain was first put on the bar.   After I cut away the first .030" or so the edge held well.   Tough chains!
Phil L.

[Oregon_Rob]

I wanted to say howdy, haven't had much time to stop by lately, work, family & duck hunting has opened.

Opinions on ripping chain are endless, and lucky for us, free.
My short experience with ripping chain goes like this:

Bought my 36" III, mini-mill & Granberg chain new from SW Fastener. Started playing around and was amazed at how fast the Granberg chain would dull. Someone we all know, (first rate guy) went out of his way and offered to supply me with an Oregon ripping chain that is not available locally (hard to believe but true, I couldn't find the Oregon chain I wanted in Oregon). This chain was basically an Oregon, simi-chissel, full skip chain ground at 10° (3/8, 050). This chain stayed sharp much longer than the Grangerg and provided a decent finish and was relatively easy to file. The loop was for my 24" bar. I had an occasion to need my 32" bar and took an old, full comp, LG chain and filed it to 10°. This is now my preferred chain for milling. Gives the best balance between speed, stay-sharpness (like that's a real word), availability, lumber finish and price.

"And that's all I have to say about that"

Oregon Rob
 

[forestryschoolnz]

Not sure how this works, Looking at buying a chain saw to run an alaskan mill here at the school.  Would you buy a MS640 or a 384xp husksy, any thoughts out there please!

[Kevin]

Welcome to the forum.
Is that MS660?
What size of logs are we talking?

[jokers]

Hi Kevin
3/8LP has always been .370 + in actual length.

BTW, Jeff Sikkema has some new chainsaw mills coming in from GB that look great and seem to offer several improved features over the competition. Sometimes it pays to come to the party late.

//www.snssawshop.com

Russ

[forestryschoolnz]

Thanks for the welcome.  We use the mill for student purposes just to get the logs into managable boards, the students then use them for accoustic sorting projects and other wood quality research projects.  Logs usually range from about 30 to 50 cm diameter.  My main issue is what  saw to use.  In NZ we have a saw called the MS 640 magnum, its a 84.9 cc stihl 4.8kw power looks just the same as an MS440 or MS660.  Im not sure to go with that or a husky 385xp.  both are equally as good, just looking for any inside info, also what bar and chain should I use, 3/8 pitch full skip or semi skip. Normally we are cutting pines but sometimes the odd Eucalpt

[Kevin]

I would opt for the Husqvarna, good saw and you may have a better warranty.
I use 3/8pitch full skip Oregon RA.
You may not be able to get that but RD isn't bad, it's the same chain but full comp.

[forestryschoolnz]

Thanks for the advice, however it looks like we are going for the stihl since the dealer is closer and we get a good price.  I will try and go for the full skip chain as you suggested.  Let you know how it goes.  

[Kevin]

If you aren't concerned with the finish, Stihl has full skip or semi skip (Rapid Super (RS)) for ripping up logs.