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Maple 2" Thick Green Live Edge Slab, and Bar Oil Substitutes

Started by jemmy, September 30, 2018, 04:09:33 AM

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jemmy

Ok, so got a lot of questions... Got a customer, owner of a the biggest cabinetry maker in the area, and he requested me to cut up as wide as possible 2" thick live edge green maple slabs. Now, I am cutting 48"+ slabs, and I am planning on cutting 18 or so 30-48"+ 6-8ft slabs from a 1 or a couple of logs. These will be cut with my cannon 84" bar 090 slabbing unit, that I believe i can cut up slabs at a rate of 200-400bdft per hour. I am thinking between 1.5-2$/bdft. Thoughts? My plan is to throw him a bone, and cover my butt. And soon enough I will have dimensional ready for him. My other question is, can I use substitute oil for my bar? I have a lot of old oil, motor, transmission etc. I know I will need a lot of oil for this unit. Is there such a thing as too much oil? My plan is to use a 5 gallon bucket with fittings down to a 1/4" line, with a gate valve for control of oil flow. Same goes for my fuel and bar oilier on the power head itself. I have a fair bit of assembly, and a few other little things to purchase to finish the slabbing unit. Whats the chain size for 090? Should I assemble my own chains? Whats the best tactics for sharping chains? Done a lot of research, and have a fair idea how to approach it. Just a lot of little things that need purchased and figured out. (chain, sharpener, buckets, fittings, metal work etc)
Plan for the worst, hope for the best, and take what comes with a grin. - Grandpa Chuck

Tom the Sawyer

Jemmy,

I have never operated a chainsaw mill but I do have someone who brings their chainsaw mill here to mill client logs that are too large for my bandsaw mill.  He is running a Stihl 090 with a 72" Cannon bar.  

I wouldn't establish pricing until you have some experience running your setup.  I suspect that 200-400 board feet per hour is very optimistic.  Rolling the log into the best orientation, stabilizing it, setting up for your first pass, moving slabs, etc., can be quite time consuming and counts towards your bf/hr average.  Based on my experience here, 100 bf/hr may be more realistic.  The first pass may seem fairly quick (60-90 sec/ft.) but successive passes will be slower (watch the size of your chips) and at some point you'll need to stop and file your chain, or change chains.  All of that time goes into the bf/hr average.  

I think he is running .404 ripping chain.  You may also want to add 1/4" or more to your thickness in order to finish a flat slab of your target thickness - those ultra long bars are likely to sag slightly in the middle.

Good luck with it, it's a young man's game.  I have finished up several jobs that started with a chainsaw mill.  ;)
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

Southside

I have had more than a few customers hire me to slab out logs that they tried to do with a CSM.  Yes, they did get it done but production was in the 1 log / day range between the actual cutting speed, maintenance, moving heavy slabs, etc.

A 10/4, 48" wide, 6' long slab has 60 board feet in it.  You are hoping to get 6 or 7 of those per hour, maybe you can do that in in terms of cutting time, but once you add in maintenance, slab moving, fatigue, and the fact not every slab is going to be acceptable and some will simply be firewood due to hidden rot, ant nests, etc. I don't think you will have that production rate averaged over the day.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

scsmith42

If you mill it at 2" green, it will shrink down to around 1-7/8" when dry, but alwo may cup and distort somewhat.

We usually mill 48" wide slabs at 3" - 3.25" green with the expectation of netting 1-3/4 to 2" fully S2S after drying.  If the log is clear (most of our slab logs are full of defects) then we may fudge a bit thinner when milling.

Now are you referring to selling 48" wide maple slabs at $1.50 - $2.00 per board foot, you're providing the log?  If so IMO you are way underpricing your product compared with the market value.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

jemmy

Yeah, I my set up will have 6-5.5 gallon fuel set up, and 10 gallons of oil.(why I am asking for substitutes, like used car oil, or clean vegetable oil?) I'm going to weld C Chanel on top of the 2" frame for the forks of my bobcat, I figure I will need to set up a rail system, or some form of changing the thickness quickly, I'm hopefully going to finish up the mill the preliminary fabricating this week. So far so good, got nearly all the materials and a general plan. Need to measure some stuff and gather tools and then its game time, a day and a half sprint on it. Also, I have a 56" circle mill and a bunch of big logs, so push comes to shove I can cut cads then finish them off on their, I'm gonna be getting a beater band saw, but kiln is coming before that. I've got around 30k bdft feet that I need sawed up, most can be handled by circle mill, some can't, my theory is to have a quickly movable thickness, and maneuverability with the use of the bobcat, rail system(in midst of researching designs) and with large supplies of oil, chains, fuel, then you can cut quickly. 

1ft/min at 6ft wide = 6bdft/min 6ft log = 6min. 2"x6ftx6ft= 72bdft 
15 min set up average time 15min/cut 
21 min/cut + 5 min of fluff=26 min, lets say a half hour. 
2 cuts per hour = 142bdft/hr=gross income of cut = (142x1.5) = $213 gross/hour = 1600$ day 

With a 10ft log 6ft wide its something like 240 bdft/hr.  

Personally I think I will start at like a half hour per cut but after a little bit of tweaking I can cut my set up time to 10 minutes, stream lining is essential to profitability. 

I know that this average goes down dramatically when dealing with short or skinny logs, but I will only use this set up for wide cuts. Any log under 34, is getting sent to the circle. My thought is be good to my customer now, and when I have kiln dried dimensional he will come to me. He said he's displeased with his current provider of dimensional, and all he needs is rough quarter, rough sawn and kiln dried. I figure with 30k of bdft sitting around I can cut it and get it to him at a reasonable rate, of 2.25 or something, I gotta call some of the "big sawmills" for their prices. I would be a happy camper, he's just one client that has the potential for of thousands in dimensional. Just like a lot of other cabinet clientele. I've got "big" production capabilities, land, and resources, I just need a way of moving product passively, I theoretically can cut at rate of 500-800 bdft/hour on my circle mill when everything is running well with 3 men, or maybe like 300 when its just me on a bad day. I know there's maintenance and over head, but I have practically an "unlimited" supply. I might start just selling the gosh darn things. But I'd obviously like to just saw them up and sell, and a kiln is inevitable. That's the 2nd priority besides getting a roof over the circle mill before/during winter. 

 
Plan for the worst, hope for the best, and take what comes with a grin. - Grandpa Chuck

longtime lurker

Here's some thoughts for ya:

Horizontal chainsaw milling is a game for young men with plenty time and strong backs. If you've got any thoughts of this being an ongoing gig. I'd be looking to set up a vertical. Something like this:
http://www.westfordmills.com.au/rail%20mill.htm

Theres another one Ive seen called a wombat slabber and he just sells you a proper set of plans for like $50. Websites disappeared but I can track the guy down if you're interested. It was cool because his design had a throttle lock on the chainsaw and  balanced mounting setup so you put a couple winds on a winch and walk away, when the saw cuts its way back to vertical you wind the winch up again etc etc.

Mounting vertically saves your back
mounting vertically means theres no sawdust buildup under the bar to make it run hot
No sawdust buildup and no bar getting hot means theres less chance of crowning of the wood due to bar sag/sawdust compression etc.

My favourite oil for big bars is about 2/3 rds diesel engine oil, 1/4 hyd, and 1/4 diff oil.... but honestly I just use whatever I got. You dont want the oil too tacky on that length bar because it needs to flow the length of the bar

The biggest factor in your quality of product is chain sharpening. I used to hand sharpen slabbing chains for our Lucas mill (and I am good at it) but put in a bench grinder so I could make it idiot proof and free up my time by putting anyone to the task. The repeatability of the grinder - every tooth exactly the same, every time - meant a quality improvement. Get a grinder before you even start.... while that chainsaw is cutting under winch tension you can be sharpening the next chain.

My$0.02. Have fun with it.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

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