Tree felling techniques and safety

[doc henderson]

OK I am not the expert here, but have about 40 years of Kansas "logging" (running a chainsaw).  our forests tend to be long and skinny, following a creek or river, or along the north end of a field (tree row).

this is not intended to be a beginners guide.  but to define terms and explain pros and cons of different ideas.  maybe even review an individuals idea or variation.  I consider safety to be the most important thing.  but am also trying to advance my game.  speaking of which, there are no game of logging courses here in Ks, but my daughter did just graduate from a Swedish (Bethany) college.  like staying at a holiday inn express.     my hope is this will be easier to find, and not take away from the cutting thread.  

If some one want to give info that starts at the beginning or most strait forward technique go for it.  If no one chimes in, so be it!  thanks for all the info in the other threads.

[RichTired]

I like these guys and their methods.

Felling methods

[mike_belben]

Ive always thought a pictorial would help identify regional nomenclature differences, which bring about a lot of confusion in felling talk. 

[Tacotodd]

I've intently watched it before & it's pretty informative.

I've often wondered when someone would bring all of this up!

[mudfarmer]

I used an unlikely for me source for diagrams of various notches by name when confused, the OSHA site  :D https://www.osha.gov/etools/logging/manual-operations/felling

Here is the page that links to the various notches they have defined https://www.osha.gov/etools/logging/manual-operations/felling/cuts
The site is a pain to use but is a reference if nothing else.

GOL course was useful, informative and fun for me, your mileage may vary.

[Skeans1]

If you want techniques start simple there's 4 main faces, conventional, humboldt standard, humboldt modified, and last is the open face. One of these will reliably get the tree or stick away from the stump. Back cuts can range from back boring to conventional cutting.

Now what about swinging, full faced Dutchman's, sizwheels, scarfs, and snipes of the stump should this be included?

[firefighter ontheside]

I've been using chainsaws for about 33 years, but I really learned about them when I took S-212 Wildland Fire Chain Saws.  This is a Federal class for using saws on federal land.  It is put together by the NWCG or National Wildfire Coordinating Group.  If you can't take the class, maybe you can get ahold of the book to use as a reference.  The instructors were Forest Service and Conservation Dept guys from Missouri that I fought fire with out west.  When I took the picture of the book I realized it's been 15 years since I took the class.  I need to take it again.

The lead instructor taught us the mnemonic he uses to plan for falling a tree.  The biggest part of doing it safely is planning everything ahead of time.

H - look for hazards such as vines in the tree, dead limbs, hornet nests, health of the tree, etc

H - stands for hinge and includes deciding the intended lay direction, size of tree, width of hinge should be
    about 80% of diameter of tree, thickness of hinge about 10% of diameter

W - stands for weight and includes determining the lean and where is the weight of the tree.  Tree trunk      may not lean, but if all limbs are on one side it will fall that way.

E - escape route.  The escape route should be at a 45 deg angle away from the direction of intended lay.
    This route should be cleared ahead of time to make sure you do not trip.  Do not run.

T - Technique.  How will you fall the tree?  Which notch.  Will you bore it?

 

[stavebuyer]

Bloviate. Term first popularized by President Warren Harding a century and a half ago. Resurrected by the late Rush Limbaugh.

bloviate - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

[firefighter ontheside]

I just found a newer version of the Workbook from 2012 online.  Here is the link.

https://www.bchw.org/files/wildland-fire-chain-saws-212_student-workbook.pdf

[OntarioAl]

If you want techniques start simple there's 4 main faces, conventional, humboldt standard, humboldt modified, and last is the open face. One of these will reliably get the tree or stick away from the stump. Back cuts can range from back boring to conventional cutting.

Now what about swinging, full faced Dutchman's, sizwheels, scarfs, and snipes of the stump should this be included?

No but H**l no 
There are too many weekend warriors that will try those techniques with disastrous results there already is lots of bad information already out there on the internet.
I train Forest Fire Fighters in the safe use of chainsaws limbing felling  etc. most start with zero or minimal experience I have been doing this for almost 30 years.
I am certified by the province of Ontario to deliver this training I am also a Type 1 Incident Command Safety Officer
I will never advise anyone how to take down trees over the internet or by phone
Any posts that i respond to on this site dealing with tree felling i have two responses get a professional on site and or get an excavator or skidder
I concure with other posters on this site that have said "if you are coming here for advise on felling trees you obviously are lacking in experience"
If i lived closer to some of the posters asking the questions I would go and give them some assistance and hopefully pass on some of my knowledge
Cheers
Al

[firefighter ontheside]

I don't think anyone here is trying to teach anyone to fell a tree online, but as Doc said, there is no GOL class offered in Kansas and likely nowhere to take the S-212 class.  People are still going to cut down trees, whether they take a formal class or not.  It must be better to read and get a little more information and instruction than to just run out and buy a saw and walk up to a tree.

[doc henderson]

i agree and have 40 years of chainsaw operation, and have cut down many trees.  I am learning from local experts, but want to learn more.  I hope a 17 y/o kid does not get on here and think he can fell a 5 foot diameter 200 foot tall tree, but if he does, he was prob. going to do it anyway.  I have had some close calls, but alive enough to want to know more.  Al I know you mean well, but we are already talking aobut it, I am just trying to get it in one thread!  

[Gary_C]

Sorry doc but I don't have any tree cutting techniques with exotic names that will make trees jump, dance, twist or fall in any special way but I do know some basic rules about felling trees that may save your life some day. Perhaps you already know some of these rules but it's always good to go over the basics they teach first in any classes. I'm not an expert by any means but hopefully others will correct me in anything that is wrong or will add some basic rules that I have missed.

First of course is always wear your PPE at all times when cutting. 

Second when approaching a tree you wish to cut always first look up to the top of the tree. OSHA claims to have numbers that say over 75 or 85 % of injuries are caused by being hit on the head. That's why it's always important to first look for any loose and broken limbs that might fall when the tree is disturbed.

Next look all the way around the tree for cracks, seams, defects especially ones with holes, rot and any indicators of hollow trunks where you might be cutting. It's permissible to thump the tree to find any hollow spots.

Look at the tree from the standpoint of balance to determine where is the center of gravity, placement of limbs and any lean of the tree. Try to determine which way the tree would naturally fall if completely free from the stump. 

Look for a clear path for the tree to fall. It's at this point you need to evaluate what method you need to use to get the tree down the best way. Be prepared for trouble including if you need to get a line in to pull the tree to get it down and I don't recommend that option, but you must do that before you begin cutting. Always remember one option is to walk away and/or ask for help.

General rules for notches is one third the diameter deep and hinge one tenth the diameter of the tree. Notch up is considered Conventional and down is considered Humboldt. The open angle of the notch determines when the fiber pull begins and the steering of the tree by the notch ends. In more brittle woods, the notch may well partially break before the notch closes. Note that one third deep of a notch may not allow the tree to fall naturally if the center of gravity is near the center of the diameter or even behind the center. If this is the case you must be prepared to lift the tree off the stump by wedges, jacks or cable pulls. 

Fiber pull is a subject all by itself. If a buyer sees any fiber pull in a butt log, it's no longer a veneer log. That's why there are the so called slick stump cuts to avoid fiber pulls. My father in law cut a lot of walnut by a method he called "felling the tree over his saw" where he just cut from front to back and just pulled his saw in and out to widen the cut hopefully before the kerf started to close. It's an extremely dangerous cut and should be only done when you know which way the tree will fall.

Bore cutting is generally used to describe the method taught in GOL courses and is the method of using the tip of your bar to cut thru the tree behind the notch where you first establish the thickness of the hinge and then cut to the back of the tree and leave a trigger to be cut last from the back side. You generally need to place wedges in the back cut to lift the tree unless there is a lean in the falling direction and even without a lean it's a good idea. The method is especially useful to prevent barberchair in leaners. 

[doc henderson]

great info.  I have cut some leaners, and sent them the way they wanted to go.  how do modify the depth of the wedge or notch so you do not clamp your bar, and if you do how do you complete the cut for felling the tree?  second saw, cable and pull back?

[OntarioAl]

Great post by Gary
I use the following acronym when training new fire fighters the majority come from urban areas and have never handled a chainsaw
Originating   from wild land fire fighting 
LACES
Its easy to remember and it fits with Gary,s narrative
L look up down and around
A access do you have the expertise and tools required for the job at hand
C communicate what you are going to do mentally with yourself or others you are working with
E escape route
S safety zone 
Its easy to remember
Cheers
Al

[Tacotodd]

Don't forget to check the ones on your boots either 

[Skeans1]

great info.  I have cut some leaners, and sent them the way they wanted to go.  how do modify the depth of the wedge or notch so you do not clamp your bar, and if you do how do you complete the cut for felling the tree?  second saw, cable and pull back?

Try putting a wedge just barely in on your sight cut at a slight downward angle so you can watch the movement of the tree. Why can't you fall these learners 90 degrees away from the lean? Just some ideas and tools I've used over the years of falling timber.

[doc henderson]

the one I was thinking of did not get pinched.  it was in a tree row along a road.  it was about a 20° lean, and at an angle would of hit the other trees.  good idea.  It was the Cottonwood for trailer planks.



 

old uncle Jerry.  I fell the tree onto the road with traffic control (not much traffic) it was along the road in line with the other trees.  they all look strait, in the air, but you can see the swoop on the ground.

[Ianab]

how do modify the depth of the wedge or notch so you do not clamp your bar

I find that with a forward leaner, falling in the direction it wants to go, you can get away with a much shallower notch than normal. Just make your notch deep enough to actually form a hinge, doesn't need to be a full 1/3 of the way in. That way you should't be removing enough wood for the tree to settle. 

And yes I have a 2nd say handy in case I get it wrong. :-\:D

[mike_belben]

Dont notch the face in too deep on heavy leaners in one pass.  Theyll sit right on the bar before you can yank it out. 

If you complete a shallow face notch and feel it needs to go deeper just take an extra cookie off the top or bottom lip and make your intersection reconcile after.  Wont get pinched that way. 

[Walnut Beast]

Looks like the trusty CAT handled it just fine Doc 👍

[doc henderson]

I assume the pull happens most when the notch closes and pry's up on the hinge and fibers.  or on the back side of a thick hinge.  The CAT has worked well.  the wide tracks do well in the sand areas.  that log is 20 feet long and was a live cottonwood 20 minutes earlier.  the trailer was parked along side the road and on a slight tilt.  that hump let the log take a roll and broke my then oak stay pocket boards.  glad Jerry was not on the downhill side of the trailer.  Now I have the @YellowHammer system.

[treemuncher]

Quite the discussion on the differing techniques. Might as well throw my opinion into this chamber pot.

Until I took the Master Logger course offered by the TN Forestry Association, I had rarely used a chain saw very much. I figured for $100 (at the time), it was a good addition to my education and it might teach me some new safety techniques before I got too set in my ways. It was one of the best education investment that I ever made. It was certainly cheap life insurance. I use my chain brake constantly after every cut - it's just cheap insurance that is automatically set in my way of operating and so ingrained, I never even think about it.

I don't cut timber for a living like many of the loggers on here do. I rarely have to pull out my saw unless I have a hazardous situation or the need for a precision drop to clear buildings, utilities or other items that can not be hit with a falling tree. "Walking the stump" cuts may be sensible to limit damage to save trees when working timber deep in the woods but never for me. I work alone so I must know where the tree will drop AND I have at least 2 different escape routes preplanned before starting my bore cut. I follow what was taught to me in those classes because it is safe, sensible and provides me with the best chances of surviving this occupational hazard of dropping trees.

In almost 100% of my cuts of these types of situations, I use the open face with bore cut method. I want my trees attached to the stump until or just before they hit the ground in order retain directional control. I pre-read the lean of the tree and use wedges when required if it's not cabled. I also cheat and use a winch whenever there is ANY question of safety when near roads, buildings or utilities. One of the best tools I have is the winch with a cheap radio remote control that allows me to tension the pull as I am cutting the tree from over 100' away from my machine. Snatch blocks and tree straps are also used. I've been able to keep a really good safety record using these techniques and the bore cut always clues me in to really dangerous situations ahead of time. For me, it is the only technique I use when I have to make those precision drops.

The instruction with PPE was also the best part of the course. I may be a dumbass once in a while and cut without my chaps on, but rarely. The  chaps saved me once, already. Also, hard hat, safety glasses, ear plugs and gloves are a must have for me. I only wish they had introduced me to TechNu Poison Ivy wash during the course - I ALWAYS have that stuff on my truck by the quart. It saves me from a lot of unnecessary suffering.

Immediately after the field day where we cut trees with the instructed methods, I stopped at Bailey's when they used to have a Jackson branch years ago. Until that day in class, I had only used my father's Poulan, Shindawa or McCulloch saws. None were impressive and all were temperamental. I tried a Husqvarna 272 in that class and I went ahead and purchased the same saw with a full starter kit - fuel/oil jug, chaps, hard hat, etc - while on my way home that afternoon. That saw was so much better than anything else that I had ever used. I would likely still have it today if it had not been stolen from a job site. The replacement was a 385XP. I run 20", 28" and 52" bars on that powerhead depending on what I have to tackle. I dread the 52". Quality tools make the work much easier and more efficient. If it's part of my business, I am always willing to spend the difference to get what is most efficient to keep work moving smoothly. Time is money and I won't waste time on something slow or temperamental.

Is this method Open Face & Bore method perfect? Absolutely yes if you can pre-read every condition of the tree and you know your physics well. One way or another, gravity is going to bring that wood to the ground. Real life ain't perfect. I've learned from my mistakes and I've been fortunate enough to walk away from every one of those so far. Trees that I misjudged have nearly taken me out with root pull and a barber chair or two. Anything less than perfect is approached with extreme caution and given more time than simple situations. Experience is the best teacher but you have to live through it to learn it. Death won't allow me to practice what I've learned.

What ever method you use, pre-plan the drop and be as safe as you can. Good tools and good techniques can reduce the hazards but never make it absolutely safe. No one wants to find a stiff in the woods.

[LeeB]

I'm all for bore cutting and use it when I can, but what about trees too small for a bore cut that are leaners? The smaller ones are also hard to get a wedge in. Many of the trees I cut when clearing near the house and other structures are 8" or smaller.

[Old Greenhorn]

I'm all for bore cutting and use it when I can, but what about trees too small for a bore cut that are leaners? The smaller ones are also hard to get a wedge in. Many of the trees I cut when clearing near the house and other structures are 8" or smaller.

I had the same problem/question. A few years ago Bill Lindloff taught me a neat trick I use often enough: make your face cut as normal, then lay the bar flat on the bottom of the notch and perpendicular to the notch and bore straight through from front to back right through the center of the notch. Pull the bar out an move up 1/2" and just bore about 1-1/2" deep for a clearance cut.
 Now drive your wedge in from the back to make tight. From one side, cut in from the back up to the hinge thickness on one side, then the other side. Each of these cuts defines the hinge thickness. Be careful not to cut your wedge (but it happens). Now you just drive your wedge and over she goes. The purpose of the second, higher bore cut is to make sure the wedge doesn't bottom out at the hinge line. Driving past that could make the hinge fail. So the clearance allows the tree to keep lifting without the wedge binding.
 I don't need it often, but when I need that, it is mighty handy.

[Skeans1]

I'm all for bore cutting and use it when I can, but what about trees too small for a bore cut that are leaners? The smaller ones are also hard to get a wedge in. Many of the trees I cut when clearing near the house and other structures are 8" or smaller.

Start your back cut first set wedge in tight then face it up like we do when jacking. This is a fast simple method that works very well on back leaners.

[mike_belben]

I cut small stuff constantly with just a tophandle and a shove by hand up to about 10 inch.   In 4" stems i will just blow right through in one pass if im carrying the 372.  Its faster than gravity. 

[Old Greenhorn]

I'm all for bore cutting and use it when I can, but what about trees too small for a bore cut that are leaners? The smaller ones are also hard to get a wedge in. Many of the trees I cut when clearing near the house and other structures are 8" or smaller.

Start your back cut first set wedge in tight then face it up like we do when jacking. This is a fast simple method that works very well on back leaners.

Hey, I like that! I'm gonna try it next chance I get. Thanks. There is still the issue of not having a deep enough back to take the wedge full depth, but one could bore through from the back side in that case. Neat idea, thanks.

[quilbilly]

I'm all for bore cutting and use it when I can, but what about trees too small for a bore cut that are leaners? The smaller ones are also hard to get a wedge in. Many of the trees I cut when clearing near the house and other structures are 8" or smaller.

Start your back cut first set wedge in tight then face it up like we do when jacking. This is a fast simple method that works very well on back leaners.

Hey, I like that! I'm gonna try it next chance I get. Thanks. There is still the issue of not having a deep enough back to take the wedge full depth, but one could bore through from the back side in that case. Neat idea, thanks.

Depending on size and how hard the lean is you can get pretty deep, when putting the wedge in put it at an angle or even sideways. Pound it up then move to the from and put in your face. You should not have a big face since you already put in a good size back cut. The face is just for direction. 

[LeeB]

make your face cut as normal, then lay the bar flat on the bottom of the notch and perpendicular to the notch and bore straight through from front to back right through the center of the notch. Pull the bar out an move up 1/2" and just bore about 1-1/2" deep for a clearance cut.

Not sure I completely understand the second boar cut above the first. I guess you also make a front to back bore cut, then cut the notch, place the wedge and do the back cut from each side as above. I'm cheap and usually make wooden wedges anyway so wouldn't loose much if I nicked my wedge.

[Tacotodd]

OGH, you just have to remember that the plastic wedges were definitely designed to not be stronger than the chain that might hit them, therefore they are "sacrificial" to a point. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather not tear up my stuff either, but stuff happens. 

[Old Greenhorn]

make your face cut as normal, then lay the bar flat on the bottom of the notch and perpendicular to the notch and bore straight through from front to back right through the center of the notch. Pull the bar out an move up 1/2" and just bore about 1-1/2" deep for a clearance cut.

Not sure I completely understand the second boar cut above the first. I guess you also make a front to back bore cut, then cut the notch, place the wedge and do the back cut from each side as above. I'm cheap and usually make wooden wedges anyway so wouldn't loose much if I nicked my wedge.

OK, picture this: You make one bore cut through (single width, roughly 1/4" wide, right?) then you place a wedge and do the sidecuts. Now you start driving that wedge in and the tree starts moving over...until the wedge thickness going through that bore cut gets to 1/4" thick. Now you can't drive it any further unless the tree lifts straight up...not good. SO you add the second bore cut a little higher to allow clearance. Did I explain that better?
Yeah Todd I know they are expendable, but my wedges get nipped and clipped all the time and they don't last as long as I would like. I order mine from Madsen's and as much as I like them, I don't need to keep buying them all the time. By the way, hit them on the belt sander once in a while to repoint and clean off the burrs and they work better over time. Even with that and being careful, some of mine are pretty sad.

[firefighter ontheside]

I assume the pull happens most when the notch closes and pry's up on the hinge and fibers.  or on the back side of a thick hinge.  The CAT has worked well.  the wide tracks do well in the sand areas.  that log is 20 feet long and was a live cottonwood 20 minutes earlier.  the trailer was parked along side the road and on a slight tilt.  that hump let the log take a roll and broke my then oak stay pocket boards.  glad Jerry was not on the downhill side of the trailer.  Now I have the @YellowHammer system.

One of the benefits of the open faced notch used with the boring back cut method is that it takes longer to close up and may not break before the tree touches down.  The idea is that the hinge is able to control the direction of fall all the way to the ground, because the notch is more than 90 deg.  Something like a humboldt notch is more like 45 deg., so the notch closes up and the hinge breaks when the tree is only halfway to the ground.

[LeeB]

OK, picture this: You make one bore cut through (single width, roughly 1/4" wide, right?) then you place a wedge and do the sidecuts. Now you start driving that wedge in and the tree starts moving over...until the wedge thickness going through that bore cut gets to 1/4" thick. Now you can't drive it any further unless the tree lifts straight up...not good. SO you add the second bore cut a little higher to allow clearance

Gotcha. Allows the back of the wedge to continue angling the tree at the back cut rather than trying to break the hinge. Right?

[Skeans1]

I assume the pull happens most when the notch closes and pry's up on the hinge and fibers.  or on the back side of a thick hinge.  The CAT has worked well.  the wide tracks do well in the sand areas.  that log is 20 feet long and was a live cottonwood 20 minutes earlier.  the trailer was parked along side the road and on a slight tilt.  that hump let the log take a roll and broke my then oak stay pocket boards.  glad Jerry was not on the downhill side of the trailer.  Now I have the @YellowHammer system.

One of the benefits of the open faced notch used with the boring back cut method is that it takes longer to close up and may not break before the tree touches down.  The idea is that the hinge is able to control the direction of fall all the way to the ground, because the notch is more than 90 deg.  Something like a humboldt notch is more like 45 deg., so the notch closes up and the hinge breaks when the tree is only halfway to the ground.

Semi true the face controls direction if the tree is straight and weight is equal side to side. A humboldt will control a tree all the way to the ground as well this also is depending on conditions. One thing that I'm noticing is there's this huge push to have a black and white this is the only way to do this when in reality you guys should look at this as when in Roman do as the Romans do.

[HemlockKing]

I'm all for bore cutting and use it when I can, but what about trees too small for a bore cut that are leaners? The smaller ones are also hard to get a wedge in. Many of the trees I cut when clearing near the house and other structures are 8" or smaller.

I had this problem yesterday, luckily my stihl 170 has a “rolomatic mini” so it’s much smaller. If the tree is so small though like around 10 inches I just gun it to the hinge before the tree even moves much. On a big tree couldn’t make the hinge quick enough before it barbers. Am self taught and that’s the way I do, no a professional by any means.

[John Mc]

I've been using chainsaws for about 33 years, but I really learned about them when I took S-212 Wildland Fire Chain Saws.  This is a Federal class for using saws on federal land.  It is put together by the NWCG or National Wildfire Coordinating Group.  If you can't take the class, maybe you can get ahold of the book to use as a reference.  The instructors were Forest Service and Conservation Dept guys from Missouri that I fought fire with out west.  When I took the picture of the book I realized it's been 15 years since I took the class.  I need to take it again.

The lead instructor taught us the mnemonic he uses to plan for falling a tree.  The biggest part of doing it safely is planning everything ahead of time.

H - look for hazards such as vines in the tree, dead limbs, hornet nests, health of the tree, etc

H - stands for hinge and includes deciding the intended lay direction, size of tree, width of hinge should be
   about 80% of diameter of tree, thickness of hinge about 10% of diameter

W - stands for weight and includes determining the lean and where is the weight of the tree.  Tree trunk      may not lean, but if all limbs are on one side it will fall that way.

E - escape route.  The escape route should be at a 45 deg angle away from the direction of intended lay.
   This route should be cleared ahead of time to make sure you do not trip.  Do not run.

T - Technique.  How will you fall the tree?  Which notch.  Will you bore it?

That's basically one of he same things the GOL instructors teach, though they dont use the HHWET mnemonic. The guys at Northeast Woodland Training (the GOL training organization here in VT) also point out that there are 5 points in that list to remember, just as there are 5 fingers on your hand. They also get you started on the list by counting them off on their fingers, extending their thumb first, which points up, reminding you to look for the hazards overhead. (Apparently, that's on a lot of newbies forget: they tend to want to dive right in to the cutting plan.)

If i lived closer to some of the posters asking the questions I would go and give them some assistance and hopefully pass on some of my knowledge

That's the approach I like to take. You can tell so much more when you are there in person. I'd much rather help in person, and either show them some pointers or take the opportunity to convince them that maybe this isn;t somethign they want to be tackling without some more help or training.

[HemlockKing]

I've been using chainsaws for about 33 years, but I really learned about them when I took S-212 Wildland Fire Chain Saws.  This is a Federal class for using saws on federal land.  It is put together by the NWCG or National Wildfire Coordinating Group.  If you can't take the class, maybe you can get ahold of the book to use as a reference.  The instructors were Forest Service and Conservation Dept guys from Missouri that I fought fire with out west.  When I took the picture of the book I realized it's been 15 years since I took the class.  I need to take it again.

The lead instructor taught us the mnemonic he uses to plan for falling a tree.  The biggest part of doing it safely is planning everything ahead of time.

H - look for hazards such as vines in the tree, dead limbs, hornet nests, health of the tree, etc

H - stands for hinge and includes deciding the intended lay direction, size of tree, width of hinge should be
   about 80% of diameter of tree, thickness of hinge about 10% of diameter

W - stands for weight and includes determining the lean and where is the weight of the tree.  Tree trunk      may not lean, but if all limbs are on one side it will fall that way.

E - escape route.  The escape route should be at a 45 deg angle away from the direction of intended lay.
   This route should be cleared ahead of time to make sure you do not trip.  Do not run.

T - Technique.  How will you fall the tree?  Which notch.  Will you bore it?

That's basically one of he same things the GOL instructors teach, though they dont use the HHWET mnemonic. The guys at Northeast Woodland Training (the GOL training organization here in VT) also point out that there are 5 points in that list to remember, just as there are 5 fingers on your hand. They also get you started on the list by counting them off on their fingers, extending their thumb first, which points up, reminding you to look for the hazards overhead. (Apparently, that's on a lot of newbies forget: they tend to want to dive right in to the cutting plan.)

If i lived closer to some of the posters asking the questions I would go and give them some assistance and hopefully pass on some of my knowledge

That's the approach I like to take. You can tell so much more when you are there in person. I'd much rather help in person, and either show them some pointers or take the opportunity to convince them that maybe this isn;t somethign they want to be tackling without some more help or training.

Hello John, I understand you teach this stuff, I just wanted to say thanks for sharing lots of valuable information here for the posters, I have learned from you. 

[John Mc]

Hello John, I understand you teach this stuff, I just wanted to say thanks for sharing lots of valuable information here for the posters, I have learned from you.

Hemlock King - Thanks, but I do not instruct in chainsaw use or felling, other than giving friends some pointers or helping them out to keep them out of trouble when they have some trees they need to take down.

I am an FAA certificated Flight Instructor (not actively instructing these days). Learning to do that and using it over the years has given me some insights on adult education and the different ways in which adults learn.

I don't consider myself an expert at tree felling and chainsaw use. (I suppose I should not be surprised that I've run into a number of people locally who know far less than I do, yet do consider themselves "experts".) I do make it a point to encourage people to seek out expertise - which is why I so often suggest people look in to one of the GOL training organizations (mostly in the Northeast US), or Tim Ard's Forest Applications Training (mostly in the SE, though he does get around a bit), or some other training in their area. I favor formal hands-on training, but I realize that is not the way everyone learns. It is one way to significantly reduce the risks involved as compared to learning through the "school of hard knocks". In chainsaw use and tree felling, the hard knocks can kill you or leave you maimed. I decided early on that I wanted to be around to see my kids grow up, and have full use of all my limbs when doing so.

I do try to keep learning: I've taken all of the chainsaw related classes the GOL folks in my area offer. I've repeated some, since I wanted to see how things changed when they were teaching more landowner-oriented classes vs pro-logger oriented ones. The second time through I was able to focus more on their approach to teaching  (which is interesting to me) rather than just absorbing all of the content. I also make a point of analyzing the situation when something did not go exactly as planned - hopefully, I can learn something that will help the next time.

[Ianab]

One thing that I'm noticing is there's this huge push to have a black and white this is the only way to do this when in reality you guys should look at this as when in Roman do as the Romans do.

I don't get that feeling. There is multiple ways to cut down a tree, some are relatively safe, others aren't. Some produce better results (direction control, less fibre pull etc). 

So it's not so much about what the rest of the Romans are up to. It's about knowing several (safe) methods or variations of cuts to get the safest and best result for the tree you are standing next to at the time. There are situations where the GOL style bore cutting can certainly save your life, even if the other 99 trees can be cut with a conventional notch and back cut. 

So the hazard ID, assessing the tree condition and lean and the ways that species of tree behave can certainly change the method you would use. Or sometimes, when to walk away ;)

No tree is worth enough to risk getting killed over. 

[Old Greenhorn]

...,..

First of course is always wear your PPE at all times when cutting.

Second when approaching a tree you wish to cut always first look up to the top of the tree. OSHA claims to have numbers that say over 75 or 85 % of injuries are caused by being hit on the head. That's why it's always important to first look for any loose and broken limbs that might fall when the tree is disturbed.

.....

Just to reinforce this: 2 days ago I was out harvesting mushroom logs in very dense growth, which means almost none of the trees I felled actually hit the ground because they were hemmed in tight in all directions. So I cut this one tree and it went over about 10-15 degrees before it stopped. I did not step back as I should have when it started going because I knew dang well it wouldn't go far (compliancy, that's an 'error trap'). So when it stopped moving, I looked up to see how/where it was hung. Right as I got my head up, it hit me. A dead branch from another tree about 2" in diameter and 5' long caught me square across the forehead area. It hit right where the brim meets the crown of my hard hat and flung that hat far enough that I had to search a little to find it in the dense growth. It rung my bell a little bit, but not a lot. My helper was watching and saw it and tried to yell, but by the time noise came out of his mouth it had whacked me already. It was that quick. I am guessing about a 30 foot straight drop.
 Later that same day it was so hot that I was really dragging and considered swapping out my chainsaw pants for jeans, but I recalled the earlier incident and remembered what I used to teach in the Fire and EMS services: PPE does you NO good if you don't wear it.
 That was a pretty new skull bucket that I replaced my out of date plastic one with recently. No visible damage to the hat so I am glad I'm not out 70 bucks for a new one, but better than if I didn't have it on. I would have been a hurting unit for sure.
 Buy it, wear it, take care of it.

[HemlockKing]

...,..

First of course is always wear your PPE at all times when cutting.

Second when approaching a tree you wish to cut always first look up to the top of the tree. OSHA claims to have numbers that say over 75 or 85 % of injuries are caused by being hit on the head. That's why it's always important to first look for any loose and broken limbs that might fall when the tree is disturbed.

.....

Just to reinforce this: 2 days ago I was out harvesting mushroom logs in very dense growth, which means almost none of the trees I felled actually hit the ground because they were hemmed in tight in all directions. So I cut this one tree and it went over about 10-15 degrees before it stopped. I did not step back as I should have when it started going because I knew dang well it wouldn't go far (compliancy, that's an 'error trap'). So when it stopped moving, I looked up to see how/where it was hung. Right as I got my head up, it hit me. A dead branch from another tree about 2" in diameter and 5' long caught me square across the forehead area. It hit right where the brim meets the crown of my hard hat and flung that hat far enough that I had to search a little to find it in the dense growth. It rung my bell a little bit, but not a lot. My helper was watching and saw it and tried to yell, but by the time noise came out of his mouth it had whacked me already. It was that quick. I am guessing about a 30 foot straight drop.
Later that same day it was so hot that I was really dragging and considered swapping out my chainsaw pants for jeans, but I recalled the earlier incident and remembered what I used to teach in the Fire and EMS services: PPE does you NO good if you don't wear it.
That was a pretty new skull bucket that I replaced my out of date plastic one with recently. No visible damage to the hat so I am glad I'm not out 70 bucks for a new one, but better than if I didn't have it on. I would have been a hurting unit for sure.
Buy it, wear it, take care of it.

I can't cut in temps more than 85, I can beat the heat though by starting at 5 thankfully with warm weather comes longer hours, early mornings + evening Is full day of work. Take 11-5 off maybe hour or 2 in the evening. It's so exhausting it's definitely a hazard, I can't even keep the sweat of out my eyes stings badly too. 

[LeeB]

That was a pretty new skull bucket that I replaced my out of date plastic one with recently. No visible damage to the hat so I am glad I'm not out 70 bucks for a new one

Probably be a smart move to replace the suspension in it. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Yes, all that and more. It was in the mid 80's that day. I am old and start losing my wind in those conditions. The sweat in the eyes is another problem and on that afternoon I got some woodchips in my eyes when I (again) looked up and there were chips on the inside of my shield that fell directly into my eye.  That hurt liked the dickens and I didn't clear it until after my shower that night.

[Old Greenhorn]

That was a pretty new skull bucket that I replaced my out of date plastic one with recently. No visible damage to the hat so I am glad I'm not out 70 bucks for a new one

Probably be a smart move to replace the suspension in it.

Good Point. I don't think it was nearly a hard enough hit, I will check it out for sure and look closer for any damage or questionable spots. I hope its fine because I finally got that suspension to sit the way I want. Hate to start over, but I will if there is any sign. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Ianab]

Later that same day it was so hot that I was really dragging and considered swapping out my chainsaw pants for jeans, but I recalled the earlier incident and remembered what I used to teach in the Fire and EMS services: PPE does you NO good if you don't wear it

Short pants and chaps are the go to here in summer. Still get the protection, but a lot cooler. Hot and humid makes heat exhaustion a real safety concern, and messes with your concentration. 

[mike_belben]

And who likes a swamp wedgie anyways?  

[John Mc]

No visible damage to the hat so I am glad I'm not out 70 bucks for a new one

I'm pretty sure that if a plastic helmet takes a hard hit, you are supposed to replace the whole thing

[Skeans1]

No visible damage to the hat so I am glad I'm not out 70 bucks for a new one

I'm pretty sure that if a plastic helmet takes a hard hit, you are supposed to replace the whole thing

With the aluminum hats as long as the rivets aren't loose you're good to go.

[Walnut Beast]

The easy way . https://fb.watch/63UTm3C3f5/

[John Mc]

No visible damage to the hat so I am glad I'm not out 70 bucks for a new one

I'm pretty sure that if a plastic helmet takes a hard hit, you are supposed to replace the whole thing

With the aluminum hats as long as the rivets aren't loose you're good to go.

... and if they are dented, they have to go (and pounding them back into shape is not an acceptable "cure"). Once that arch loses it's shape, the structural integrity is severely compromised.

[Old Greenhorn]

Well it's aluminum and I checked it over really carefully last night. No dents, dings, or nicks. Good to go. I also went over the suspension carefully and it too has no issues at all. It really wasn't THAT hard of a whack, just blurred my vision for a few seconds. Now, if it was plastic I would probably just replace it because you can't see stress or micro cracks in those and I don't think the plastic will take as much as aluminum without effect. This is why I got aluminum. I keep a spare plastic one in the truck for visitors, helpers, or if something happens.

[Skeans1]

No visible damage to the hat so I am glad I'm not out 70 bucks for a new one

I'm pretty sure that if a plastic helmet takes a hard hit, you are supposed to replace the whole thing

With the aluminum hats as long as the rivets aren't loose you're good to go.

... and if they are dented, they have to go (and pounding them back into shape is not an acceptable "cure"). Once that arch loses it's shape, the structural integrity is severely compromised.

We don't pound them back, in the center of these hats is a plate that's riveted in for strength that's the only time they're supposed to be replaced is if that is bent as well.