Engineering$

[rjwoelk]

I have this project on  the go and been informed that it needs a engineer stamp.
So I call up a engineer that does timberframing and he comes back to me with 1500 to stamp my plans.
2500 if he needs to do the drawings.
When I was talking with the Building inspector he though it would be done for a couple hundred.
What is your take on the money.
We need to have every building engineered unless you do a stick frame. On 2 ft spacing. They consider that engineered system.

[reride82]

rjwoelk,

As an engineer that designs, stamps, and releases drawings I'd say $1500 is reasonable depending on the design. I would never stamp someone else's drawing without thoroughly reviewing first, and $1500 could be steep or it could be a bargain depending on how complex the design. Its like asking the question, is $15000 too much for a sawmill? Is it an old circle handset sawmill, a manual bandsaw, or a full hydraulic LT70 wide head? So, are we talking about a single room, two bent timber frame, or a multi-wing two story timberframe with a walkout basement? In this lawyer/sue happy world, if something were to happen to that structure the engineer who stamped the drawings would be the first target in litigation. When I stamp a design, there is no sunset or expiration date on my liability in regards to that design. So, if something were to happen in 1, 5, 10, 25 years that design engineer is still liable as long I am alive. So, even if there is a fault in construction and there is catastrophic failure, it is up to the engineer to prove the design was/is sound. I think we need more information to see if you're being fleeced or not.

Levi

[TimFromNB]

I had my plans reviewed and a floor plan drawn with calculations done for piers for a 16x20 cabin. Cost me just over $1000. So that sounds reasonable.

Tim

[DWyatt]

We go through this frequently at work, I am not yet able to stamp any plans (only a couple more years! ;D) but people come to us with their plans and just want a quick signature. As an engineer, it is our ethical responsibility to fully review your drawings as if it was their own design. Working through all of the calculations and grade requirements just as you have already done. Like Levi pointed out, if something ever happens, the immediate blame in this sue happy world goes to the engineer, and the last thing they want is to be pulled from their retirement community in 25 years because of a catastrophic failure that could have been prevented if they spent a little more time reviewing your plans. Calculations take time, time is money. Seems like a fair price to me.

[rjwoelk]

I am puting up a 17x36 5 bent 4 bays. I did a model of it. Check my gallery lots of phots. This is a firewood processing shed to house tge tractor processor and a storage room.
Being in canada we dont have the happy sueing as you folks have.

[Don P]

Do you have an exemption for ag buildings? Here that building would be exempt from engineering and inspection as a farm building.

[rjwoelk]

They use to but this year the new building code says everything needs to be engineered unless you construct a 2x wall up  to 2ft spacing of studs. That they say is engineered prescription. 
Hayshed with 8ft spaced poles need to be engineered. 
I will send my drawings to several engineers and maybe someone may be happy with them. 
 I can build my shed from them they should be stampable.   :D

[jwilly3879]

As a Building Inspector in a small town in upstate NY I review plans before issuing a permit. Having an engineers stamp does not necessarily ensure code compliance. I have seen on multiple plans that the engineer obviously did only a cursory review.

There are engineers that will stamp anything. A local engineer who is very thorough calls them "happy stampers."  He typically will accept drawings for review but then redraws them before stamping them.

[rjwoelk]

Thanks for all the replys, good to hear other opinon; I sent the plans off to a Engineer out of Ontario, that knows something about timber framing, He is going to get back to me by Friday with some changes perhaps if needed.  Here the RM office does not want to get sued, so they hire a Building inspector, who does not want to get sued, so he needs a engineer drawing and aproval. And 2 to 3 grand later. Not impressed, but what else can you do but follow the rules.
The neighbour down the road just went ahead and built his house, then 2 years later they finaly figured it out he had no permit, complained to him and he just payed the permit then. But if you farm large enough to have 5 combines, he is paying his share of municipal taxes. :D

[Don P]

They are missing one layer to close that loop, but fear not, I'm sure its on its way. The engineer will specify materials of some strength, species and grade, and then you'll need a grader.

[TimFromNB]

Yup, grader is the problem. I had my plans reviewed and stamped, but they specify No.2 EWP, which means I would need to hire a grader from the NB Lumber Bureau. Think it is $600 for a day + expenses for him to come out. Unless you can find a grader from a local mill that will come out.

The inspector might not notice that spec, but I didn't want to take the chance and didn't get a permit because I'm just building a cabin. Worst case, if an inspector comes out after it's built, I have stamped plans which might help my cause. Also, there is no guarantee all my wood (which I already purchased and milled) would have passed his grading. I am visually grading it based on what I've read and placing lower grade pieces where they are less critical, but he won't take that into account and all pieces need to pass grade. At least that is my understanding.

Other thing too, engineers in Canada are registered provincially and can only practice engineering in another province if they are registered there or have a special permit. So if he's in Ontario and approving plans in Saskatchewan, he might be required to get that. I guess he could tell you if that's the case. Or maybe you can check with your provincial Engineering body, APEGS, to make sure that it is acceptable with an Ontario stamp and then the inspector can't question it.

[rjwoelk]

Well our Inspector has admitted that he knows nothing about timber framing, he said the same thing about the log cabin we built. He just looks at what he knows as far as the book says and passes it. You know like evetroughs, railings, running water. He does not do anything to do with plumbing, electrical, so the more informed I am the better. :P Which is why i like this site.