Sanding sealer under blo/tung/spar finish?

Delawhere Jack · October 14, 2012, 02:22:20 PM

Hey guys,

My brother in law wants to put a finish on the YP T&G panelling in the hunting lodge. The material has been up for about 5 years with no finish. He was thinking polyurethane, but I want to steer him away from that as I think it would be a disaster.

I've searched the forum and found some good info. I think blo/tung/spar (or some other varnish?) would produce a nicer finish. Should we/can we use a sanding sealer under this? Any brand recommendations?

Thanks, Jack.

Magicman · October 14, 2012, 02:45:05 PM

The kitchen cabinets at our Cabin has only a sanding sealer finish. Originally, more was planned, but the fumes were so bad that we called it quits.

Tree Feller · October 14, 2012, 06:51:07 PM

You don't need a sanding sealer for the primarily oil finish you are contemplating. Sealers are for sealing in a contaminate like wax or silicone or to provide better adhesion for a film finish like lacquer or polyurethane. If you seal the surface, an oil finish has nowhere to go and you will end up wiping most, if not all, of it off. It also requires sanding prior to covering with a film finish.

I would also re-think the oil/varnish finish. Like MM noted with the sanding sealer, it will off-gas for a long time which means you will be able to smell it.

If the existing paneling needs sealing, use a coat of wax-free shellac to seal it in. Then, I would go with a water-borne film finish over the shellac, either polyurethane or acrylic lacquer. Target Coatings EM-6000 WB lacquer is what I use but you can get WB poly at the Borg.

The WB finish has no VOC's so it won't smell like an oil-based finish will.

Delawhere Jack · October 14, 2012, 07:05:02 PM

Quote from: Tree Feller on October 14, 2012, 06:51:07 PM
If you seal the surface, an oil finish has nowhere to go and you will end up wiping most, if not all, of it off.

That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure. Thanks.

I spoke w/ my sister about an hour ago, and the project has been put on hold. I'll get get some sample boards and try a couple options. My BIL can be like a bull in a china shop when he gets an idea in his head, thankfully sis knows how to reign him in. :D

BTW, this "hunting lodge" puts my house to shame....

Three bedrooms, two full baths, 10' ceilings, gas fireplace, central air......... and the nearest neighbor is 3/4 mile away. ;D

Tree Feller · October 14, 2012, 08:21:43 PM

Quote from: Delawhere Jack on October 14, 2012, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: Tree Feller on October 14, 2012, 06:51:07 PM
If you seal the surface, an oil finish has nowhere to go and you will end up wiping most, if not all, of it off.

I'll get get some sample boards and try a couple options.

BTW, this "hunting lodge" puts my house to shame.... Three bedrooms, two full baths, 10' ceilings, gas fireplace, central air......... and the nearest neighbor is 3/4 mile away. ;D

I should have suggested you try the finish out on some scrap first. That's just a good practice.

That "hunting lodge" is something I could definitely live in...especially with the neighbors being 3/4 mile away. The "stone" facing on the fireplace looks like the faux cobblestone that I recently ordered for my house. I really like that look and it's lighter, cheaper and easier to install than real stone, plus it lasts forever just about.

Axe Handle Hound · October 14, 2012, 09:16:01 PM

I'd second TreeFeller's recommendation. I use a coat of amber shellac, then a coat of dewaxed shellac, then a coat of waterbased poly on all my pine projects and it really looks nice in my opinion.

Nice looking place by the way!

ely · October 15, 2012, 09:03:42 AM

in my bathroom and utility room i brushed on spar varnish made by cabot. time consuming at the very least.
in the remainder of the house i am going to use the deft brand, it is not spar, its the clear gloss... my question is , am i going to be able to thin the deft with anything to be able to spray it on,? i am trying to get out of brushing the finnish on the whole house. i have a 2 quart HVLP gun, also what tip size would be best for that varnish?

POSTON WIDEHEAD · October 15, 2012, 09:47:29 AM

Axe Handle, that's nice work. With or without a sealer.

scsmith42 · October 15, 2012, 10:39:28 AM

Ditto the previous responses about not putting the sealer on first (although you could put it on after the oil finish).

low_48 · October 15, 2012, 11:00:28 PM

I vote, DON'T TOUCH IT! It's beautiful. Add any oil, or solvent based finish, and it will only darken or yellow with age. BOL will really go dark with age. I've seen really old pine paneling that was basically yellow/orange, and was not appealing at all. So be sure to consider the look 5 to 10 years from now.

Delawhere Jack · October 18, 2012, 08:35:06 PM

Quote from: low_48 on October 15, 2012, 11:00:28 PM
I vote, DON'T TOUCH IT! It's beautiful. Add any oil, or solvent based finish, and it will only darken or yellow with age. BOL will really go dark with age. I've seen really old pine paneling that was basically yellow/orange, and was not appealing at all. So be sure to consider the look 5 to 10 years from now.

That's what his son (part owner) says, and I'm starting to lean that way too.

The lodge is part of a much larger ag building, and they're getting mildew issues in the lodge. I explained that it is due to moisture coming up through the ground in the ag building, migrating into the much cooler lodge and condensing. I told BIL that the answer is to put in drain pipe to carry away water from the downspouts and eliminate the water, but he wanted to finish the paneling to solve the problem..... :-\

I'll need to recruit others to my way of thinking, the BIL can be a little hardheaded when he gets an idea in mind.

Axe Handle Hound · October 19, 2012, 08:57:01 AM

Quote from: low_48 on October 15, 2012, 11:00:28 PM
I vote, DON'T TOUCH IT! It's beautiful. Add any oil, or solvent based finish, and it will only darken or yellow with age. BOL will really go dark with age. I've seen really old pine paneling that was basically yellow/orange, and was not appealing at all.

Low_48 is right that oil based finishes and/or shellac will yellow with time, but I guess this is a personal taste issue because the more color that develops in my pine furniture over the years makes me like it even more. If you want to preserve the bright white appearance I'd stick with a waterbased finish, but keep in mind that sunlight will also cause it to yellow naturally.

Looks like the floor in the lodge is a mixture of tile and carpet? What are the subfloors like? Did he use a moisture barrier under them?

Delawhere Jack · October 19, 2012, 03:14:41 PM

Quote from: Axe Handle Hound on October 19, 2012, 08:57:01 AM
Quote from: low_48 on October 15, 2012, 11:00:28 PM
I vote, DON'T TOUCH IT! It's beautiful. Add any oil, or solvent based finish, and it will only darken or yellow with age. BOL will really go dark with age. I've seen really old pine paneling that was basically yellow/orange, and was not appealing at all.

Low_48 is right that oil based finishes and/or shellac will yellow with time, but I guess this is a personal taste issue because the more color that develops in my pine furniture over the years makes me like it even more. If you want to preserve the bright white appearance I'd stick with a waterbased finish, but keep in mind that sunlight will also cause it to yellow naturally.

Looks like the floor in the lodge is a mixture of tile and carpet? What are the subfloors like? Did he use a moisture barrier under them?

Concrete slab. I think the moisture is coming from the shed portion of the building, which is just 3-4" of rock on top of very sandy soil. In fact, you can see large areas where the rock is damp from moisture seeping up from the ground.