Clearcut costs

[texansfan]

Hi,

I have 40 acres of family land in Northeast Texas and got a quote of $30k to clearcut the land and have it ready for planting. Is that about right?
$750 an acre.

The trees were harvested in 1996 and basically all that was left was for natural regeneration. So nothing of value really out there now. I want to have something of value 30-40 years from now so that's why I inquired about clearcutting and then starting fresh with a management plan.

Thoughts????

[BradMarks]

Certainly not my geographic area, but whoa Nellie!   I'm sure others will agree -  how about a management plan to BEGIN with?  Might just save you a boat load of money IMO. 21 years since harvest, should be some kind of value somewhere on that 40. Remember, that quote for "clear cutting" is just the beginning.  Consider seedling costs, planting costs, vegetation control, and the list goes on, to re-establish a forest.

[curdog]

Not my area either,  but that does seem high.  What practices are they using for site prep? Even if I were to site prep spray,  drum chop and burn  (which is more than most local tracts would need) I would be under $750 an acre. I would look at your return per acre on your selected species,  it's going to take quite a bit to offset that site prep cost.
Hopefully someone local to you can give some insight on things.

[texansfan]

Certainly not my geographic area, but whoa Nellie!   I'm sure others will agree -  how about a management plan to BEGIN with?  Might just save you a boat load of money IMO. 21 years since harvest, should be some kind of value somewhere on that 40. Remember, that quote for "clear cutting" is just the beginning.  Consider seedling costs, planting costs, vegetation control, and the list goes on, to re-establish a forest.

I've had a forester come out and cruise it and make a "psuedo" management plan.
It was psuedo because he said there really isn't anything there to make a plan for.
It was harvested in 96/97 and left for natural regen.
That produced some pine and some hardwoods (sweet gum, etc)

The forester said nothing was merchantible now.
Just some pulpwood mainly but nobody is coming to my place just for that.
Forester said I could wait another 12-18 years and hope I get nice growth and then do a clearcut and start fresh with some of the proceeds of that sale.

I've also had three different timber companies take a look
two were already in the area and stopped by
one got my name off the tax roles and sent me a letter in the mail (a cold call basically)

All three of them went out and said there is nothing of value there (or not enough to send anybody to my place to get).


This land has been in my family over 100 years and I plan on us keeping it another 100
I'm in my upper 30s and have two kids in daycare.
This setup is for my GRANDkids (keep in mind my kids aren't even in elementary school yet)
But $30k just to clear it is wildly outrageous in my mind.
I'm looking at 30-35 years from now
The ROI on that 30k will be MUCH higher in other places I'm sure

I'm thinking about going that "buying my own skidsteer mulcher and selling it when I'm done" approach
I'm just spitballing now but I know I need this land to produce some income to at least pay the taxes on it otherwise it is just an expense.

[texansfan]

Not my area either,  but that does seem high.  What practices are they using for site prep? Even if I were to site prep spray,  drum chop and burn  (which is more than most local tracts would need) I would be under $750 an acre. I would look at your return per acre on your selected species,  it's going to take quite a bit to offset that site prep cost.
Hopefully someone local to you can give some insight on things.

mulcher for the little stuff
and a D5 for the big stuff
Can you give me more info on that spray, chop and burn method you mention?
You think it's something I can do myself in say 5-10 acre sections?

[WDH]

In my opinion, that is much too high.

[texansfan]

In my opinion, that is much too high.

Much too high?
So I should be paying between $4k and $8k to have these 40 acres cleared?

[curdog]

Usually i would drum chop and burn or spray.  The drum chopper is a large metal cylinder pulled behind a dozer with a kg blade. The kg blade shears the tree at the stump and the chopper somewhat breaks the woody stems.  This is usually done in the early summer  (around June). I'll give the tract a month or two of drying and allowing some of the stumps to resprout and then burn it. Site prep burning burns extremely hot, and should not be attempted if someone isn't familiar with burning. I can't find any of my pictures of chopping, but if you search online,  there are plenty of pictures and videos.
Spraying herbicide may be needed if there is still undesirable species coming up.
It's been a couple of years since I priced a chop job, but I think I was around $175-$200 /acre for the chopping and  $40/acre on the burning and around  $75 /hour to build fireline around the perimeter of the burn, and the mileage cost to get the dozer out for building fireline/ standby for the burn.
A high herbicide rate for site prep runs $ $125- $150/acre , and may run a little cheaper if you have a company that does aerial spraying. This is my local pricing,  so I'm sure it varies.

[mike_belben]

1.)   Are any of the current stems on their way to becoming 4 side clear, tall straight trees, ever?  If so what percentage?


2.)  How is the hunting?  Any buck leasing potential?  It is pretty small for that but maybe borders some big game state lands or is in a high pressure suburban hunting area? 

3.)  Whats the local hay market like?

[tmbrcruiser]

Several years ago I had a good friend in a similar situation. Can you walk through your stand with reasonable ease? My friend opted to spray the stand and plant through the dead standing trees. Planted a little on the heavy side figuring some loss due to the dead trees falling. All has worked out well and in a few more years you won't be able to tell the wasn't clear cut first.

[Claybraker]

Not my area either,  but that does seem high.  What practices are they using for site prep? Even if I were to site prep spray,  drum chop and burn  (which is more than most local tracts would need) I would be under $750 an acre. I would look at your return per acre on your selected species,  it's going to take quite a bit to offset that site prep cost.
Hopefully someone local to you can give some insight on things.

mulcher for the little stuff
and a D5 for the big stuff
Can you give me more info on that spray, chop and burn method you mention?
You think it's something I can do myself in say 5-10 acre sections?

How good are you with a dibble?  I dug up one of your previous posts when you did a video walkthrough, and what disturbed me is how little regeneration of anything is there after 20 years. How did you manage to only get a few Sweetgum? Are you willing to spend a few weekends a year working the land?

[texansfan]

1.)   Are any of the current stems on their way to becoming 4 side clear, tall straight trees, ever?  If so what percentage?


2.)  How is the hunting?  Any buck leasing potential?  It is pretty small for that but maybe borders some big game state lands or is in a high pressure suburban hunting area? 

3.)  Whats the local hay market like?

1. I doubt it. Percentage would be single digits I'd imagine.

2. I see a good bit of scrapes, some scat in open senderos and they have wreaked havoc on the pear/apple trees I planted (3 gallon pots and they nibbled all of the foliage off the 4ft/5ft limbs). My land was a 40 acre "sanctuary". Pressure all around us but my place was their clubhouse.

3. Neighbor below me makes hay on his 20 acres. Not sure what the market is like but he gets his sold/used I imagine.

[texansfan]

How good are you with a dibble?  I dug up one of your previous posts when you did a video walkthrough, and what disturbed me is how little regeneration of anything is there after 20 years. How did you manage to only get a few Sweetgum? Are you willing to spend a few weekends a year working the land?

I've never used a dibble. Couldn't find one in time so I planted 1,000 pine trees with a simple tree digging shovel.

This:  NOTE FROM ADMIN LINKS TO OFFSITE PHOTOS NOT ALLOWED

Which video did you watch (post the link)?
I ask because there are four VERY DIFFERENT sections of  my property as it runs 3,500 feet front to back.
the front 300 feet are carved out to be "liveable" as there was someone living in the trailer right next to the county road.
After that 300 feet it gets more and more dense forest like.

I used to spend several weekends a year up there until I was told numerous times I need to think of a much longer term plan (ie start from scratch) so I go up about once per quarter now.
But I'm willing to do what I need to in order to get back to a solid foundation.

I have a guy that's going to shred an acre or two in the front next to the county road this weekend so I can (think) about replacing that broken down trailer with a cabin soon.

[texansfan]

Several years ago I had a good friend in a similar situation. Can you walk through your stand with reasonable ease? My friend opted to spray the stand and plant through the dead standing trees. Planted a little on the heavy side figuring some loss due to the dead trees falling. All has worked out well and in a few more years you won't be able to tell the wasn't clear cut first.

Easy to walk through.
Very easy.
Only issue is the thorny vines are thinker in some areas than others.
I guess I need a pair of huge shears and I can cut my way through but every so often a vine will get caught on my pants or shirt.
Yall are spraying with glyphosate or something else?

I can do that. get a backpack sprayer and a few gallons of Gly and go to town

[Banjo picker]

You will need something stronger than glyphosate to kill bushes and trees.  Banjo

[WDH]

Garlon 4.  That will do it, and it is not soil active.  However, you must get the chemical on the foliage.