iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Emergency heat

Started by DanG, December 15, 2008, 12:32:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DanG

Reading about the ice storm has got me to thinking about my parents' situation.  They have a small generator, but it isn't large enough to run their electric heating system.  There is a fireplace that has never been used, but Dad is on oxygen, so that probably isn't an option.  Does anyone have a suggestion for an elcheapo solution?  As it stands now, they would have to be evacuated if they lose power on a cold night.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Engineer

That's a tough question.  No power means no electric heat at all, even space heat.  Oxygen means no fires, which rules out fireplace, propane space heat and probably a woodstove.  A large generator is expensive, but other than spending a lot of money on a different solution, may be the best alternative. 

Are they mobile enough to spend the night with a neighbor or friend in another community with power?  That evacuation may be the best solution.  Only other thing I could think of would be to confine themselves to one room and pile up a lot of warm blankets, but that's probably only good for a single night.  What part of the country do they live?

Gary_C

Just having oxygen should not rule out any combustion equipment as the air around has 21 percent oxygen in it. It cannot really explode or burn as oxygen is not a fuel.

Probably the best alternative is the fireplace. It should have an insert or you will send too much heat up the chimney if you do not have good control of the draft.

Some people have survived here in Minnesota with those kerosene heaters, but they are smelly and you need to be concerned with ventilation of fumes. Some are approved for closed spaces, but still stink.

A small propane space heater may work if you can get one for unventilated spaces.

Is this Florida you are talking about?  ::)
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

sbishop

When I built my house 4 years ago, i had it wired for a generator and have a propane fireplace as a backup! Never had to use it yet but New England is just down the road!  :o

Sbishop

DanG

Yes, they are in extreme Northern Florida..Tallahassee.  This ain't like Miami, it gets cold here.  So far this fall, we have had several nights in the low 20s, expect to see a few in the teens, and it occasionally dips into single digits.

My folks are old and getting somewhat frail, so whatever we do will either have to be very easy to work, or someone will have to stay with them.  They live in a large DW mobile home with a very open floor plan, so I don't think their 5500 watt generator can support enough space heaters to do much good.

I like the idea of a propane heater or converting the fireplace to propane.  My Dad has COPD along with athsma, so a  wood fire is not a good idea because of the smoke.  How hard and how expensive is it to install a propane log in a woodburning metal fireplace?  Would it put out enough heat to be worthwhile?
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Texas Ranger

DanG, my emergency and back up heat is gas logs in the wood fire burning fire place.  It does a good job, we have ventless, so the heat stays inside.  It cut my electric winter bill by a third.  There is a certain amount of "fumes" from the gas logs that may not be acceptable.  But it works.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

ohsoloco

Can't say it's all that cheap @ $400, but what about one of those Edenpure heaters?   They only pull 12.5 amps (1,483 watts), and work off of a 110v three-prong outlet.  Some of my future in-laws have one, and they really seem to like it.  You can just push it from room to room.

Gary_C

I think you can get a ventless portable kerosene heater for a little over $100. The main hazard with the kerosene heaters is putting the wrong fuel like gasoline in them.

For around the same price you can get a propane heater and run it off of those 20 lb cylinders.

I don't know anything about fireplace logs, but make sure you can burn them without opening the damper on the fireplace or the heat will go up the chimney.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

DanG

Ohsoloco, what does that heater have that makes it so pricey?  They already have an electric space heater that will make the bedroom inhabitable.

I like the gas log idea, so I'll be looking into that.  Now for another question.  I want to hook up their genset so they can use it without assistance.  I'm thinking of building a box for it in their garage with the exhaust vented to the outside.  Next step would be to run some circuits into the house and locate surface mounted outlets in strategic locations.  It has four outlets on it but I'm not sure if they are 15 or 20 amp capacity.  The longest run would be about 40 feet.  What size wire should I use?  I have a roll of 14ga on hand.  Would that be big enough?  
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Tom

The Gas Log idea sounds like a good one.  I wouldn't worry about he oxygen, unless he sticks the tube in the fire. It will make it hotter.

On another note.

Why don't you suggest that they pretend that they are 20 years old again and crawl into a comfortable double or queensized bed with 40 pounds of blankets on it.  Between the blankets and the extra curriclular activities, the esprit de corps may be sufficient to get them through the night.  Matter of fact, they might not want to get out of bed in the morning.  :D :D

bmill

  Will a new or used rv propane furnace work?  I'm looking out the window at my 5th wheel and the thought hit me. It runs on 12vdc and 120, it seems to run along time on my propane bottles and I believe it kicks out 40,000btu. Maybe this is not a good idea, just a thought.
1 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 5 - 8 - 13 - 21 - 34 - 55 - 89 - 144 - 233 - 377 - 610 - 987 - 1597 - 2584    Kubota L3400, Loader, Backhoe, 3 point tiller, Stihl MS 390, Very hard working wife!

DanG

 :D :D :D  Ya, that might work for a while...a very short while.  The old man is having enough trouble making it through the night in a hospital bed!
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

DanG

Quote from: bmill on December 15, 2008, 02:55:23 PM
  Will a new or used rv propane furnace work?  I'm looking out the window at my 5th wheel and the thought hit me. It runs on 12vdc and 120, it seems to run along time on my propane bottles and I believe it kicks out 40,000btu. Maybe this is not a good idea, just a thought.

That ain't a half-bad idea, bmill.  I actually have one of those but I don't know if it's any good.  Installation might be a little tricky though.

Another thought I had is putting a gas water heater in an outdoor enclosure, then pumping hot water through a heat exchanger in the house.  That would be a little more involved than the gas log, but would be cleaner.  Reckon how much heat it would generate?
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Tom

Sounds like you are re-inventing steam radiators, Dang.  :D

I like the use of the fireplace. It is already engineered for volatiles.  Heaters, like electric space heaters and kerosene space heaters scare me in a home with young folks, much less a home with elderly who don't move to quickly, or not at all.

Steam heat would definitely be an option if you could put it together cheaply enough.  I like the use of the fireplace best.

Jeff

We heat the entire cabin, even in sub-zero weather with a ventless plaque infrared LP Gas heater. We have a carbon monoxide alarm for peace of mind, but in many years we have never had an issue. It doesn't need any electricity to run or light. but does have a blower if you want to use it. Has built in thermostat that also does not require juice.  I think this is it HERE
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Radar67

Well, Jeff beat me to the punch. We ran into the same problem a few days ago. I will buy one of the ventless propane heaters, tie it to a portable propane bottle and have it for back up at the house. My Mom has them mounted in her house and they put out lots of heat. No electricity needed.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

srt

I like the propane heater idea.  They might find they like it as well.

Here's another thought.  We often stay in my Grandparent's guest house.  It's a slab on grade concrete block building.  When it gets cold, it stays cold for a while.  We usually arrive after dark, and the heat's been kept on just enough so it won't freeze up.  Even when we turn up the baseboard hot water heat and build a fire in the woodstove, the back bedroom stays cold until about the next day.

We've found an electric blanket does a real good job during those nights.  I don't know how many watts it pulls, but I doubt it's over 1000.

Every time I go into the main house to eat, visit, or play cards with Granny, I have to start stripping down.  She's 90, and feels best when the inside temperature matches her age!

Norm

I'd upgrade to a heavier wattage generator and run some space heaters with it. Fuel is easier to get than propane and no worries of any fumes to hurt your Dad's lungs.

Kevin

QuoteWhat size wire should I use?

#14 is 15 amp and #12 is 20 amp, don't exceed the total wattage of the generator.
Bigger is better and shorter runs for least resistance just don't exceed the amperage of the breaker or the wire gauge.

dolittle

I would install a vented LP gas heater that does not require electric.  No worries of fumes or refueling a generator every few hours.

logwalker

If the fireplace is masonry and on an outside wall it will put very little heat into the room with a propane log. Those "Eden Pure" heaters are a huge scam perpetrated on the elderly. They put out no more heat than a simple cube heater. The company selling them make fantastic claims that fall just short of being prosecutable. Paul Harvey has lost all of my respect for representing them on his radio show.  Reminds me of Ed McMann hawking worthless life insurance to the elderly.

What about a 220v electric heater? There must be something that will put out some serious heat and would work off the existing genset. Your genset would probably run two.

Do they have a gas stove? I run the top burners when I get home from a trip to take the edge off until my wood boiler gets going. But that may create a fire hazard.

Are they close enough to you to check in on them? It is tough to grow older.

Keep us posted, Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

ohsoloco

DanG, I haven't a clue what makes them so pricey, other than marketing...If Paul Harvey endorses them, they gotta be good  :D

logwalker

Sorry about the rant but anybody that takes advantage of an older person ought to be strung up by there nails. Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

beenthere

I have one, and am elderly...by most standards. ;D ;D

It does the job I expected it to do...looks good and so far, no complaints on performance.
The largest one (1500 watts) is good for a bedroom size area. In a doublewide, probably not (may work in FL tho).

I like the oil-filled radiator style heaters better than the electric element ones. More even heat, less danger from catching something on fire, but they take a while to heat up.

I had the ventless propane wall heater in my garage for extra heat, and found that it gave off too much moisture burning the fuel. However, it was in the garage where snow and ice came in with the two vehicles, so there was extra amounts of moisture in the air to begin with.

No good shortcuts. All have something to be a catch-22.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

DanG

The gas stove would be a great thing, but they're all electric.  We use our range for auxiliary heat here with no ill effect, and my folks are quite lucid and capable of using that if it were available.

I don't know much about the fireplace, except it is one of those metal box types that comes in the mobile homes.  They ordered the home without it but it was there anyway. ::)  I'm not sure if it has blowers or not, but that would be helpful.

The biggest problem here is the open floor plan.  The living and dining rooms and the kitchen are all basically one room, so it is a pretty big space.  They do have one of those oil-filled radiator thingys, now that I think of it.  Most likely, we could run both heaters on the generator and they could get by for a day or two.  The likelyhood of an extended outage around here in the Winter is pretty remote, but I'd still like to be ready. ;)  Thanks for all the help guys!  There are some real good suggestions here, and I have a better idea of things to look into. :) :) :)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Thank You Sponsors!