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Couple of questions

Started by valley ranch, February 12, 2015, 10:26:44 PM

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valley ranch

Greetings. Been working on the mill. Few more part to get.
Plan to use a Kohler Magnum 18.

Speed? Band blade speed 4500fpm  about right? Engine speed about 3300rpm
Thinking about a 3" pulley on the motor and a 10.25" or 10.75" pulley on the drive band wheel.

Centrifugal clutch: Planing to file/sand the running engine shaft down 1/16" to use a 1" clutch instead of 1 1/8".

Just like your opinion on the above.


Like to post a picture. Let me see how.
Thanks
/home/yerani/Pictures/mill2.JPG
Richard

schmism

Diameter of bandsaw wheel X 3.14 = _____ then divide by 12 the total is in ft....

guessing at something like 26" band wheels...  you would want a band wheel RPM of ~661  (based on your good number of 4500fpm)

to go from 661 band wheel rpm to 3300 engine rpm you need a 5x reduction/increase in pulley number.   eg 3" engine pulley =15" band wheel pulley


Do you already have the engine?   If not i would pick one that has a 1" shaft.   they make a Kohler 674cc engine with a 1" output.   Modifying the shaft means you also have to either recut the keyway or grind the key down so that it also fits.   the key is the item doing your power transfer... i dont know that i would be happy with a trimmed down key.
039 Stihl 010AV  NH TC33D FEL, with toys

ladylake


I'd go bigger than 3" on the engine to keep it from slipping.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

thecfarm

@valley ranch,I like to go to whatever post or start a new topic first to include a picture.Go to your gallery,it will open in a new window.Click onto your album,then click onto whatever picture you want,it will get bigger,than scroll down a little to find,Insert Image In Post,click onto that,click Yes and that is it. Some have to copy/paste the link to work.I like to hit the enter key at least once or twice to move the picture down away from what I am typing. The enter key really helps to leave some white space if posting more than one picture. Use the preview button to see how it looks and modify it if needed.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

dgdrls

valley r,

you need to spec a set of band wheels
and what size bands you want to pull.

Look to Cooks for some guidance or Suffolk machine
lots of great info on bands and wheels with those folks,

I would not reduce the size of the output shaft on the motor,
Best
DGDrls



valley ranch

Hi,  dgdris,I have 19" band wheels. I have the engine, Kohler magnum 18. I figure I'll be able to cut the grove deeper for the key.

schmism, I used the calculations you have, I think, I came up with a different answer.  I came up needing 905 rpm, and that I could get close with a 3" &  10.25 or 10.75. Maybe I need to check it again.

19"wheel X 3.14= 59.66 divided by12 =4.97  blade speed wanted 4500 divided by 4.97 =905 blade shaft rpm. I come pretty close with the pulleys above.

Is this right or have I added or subtracted wrong?

Richard



valley ranch

TEST

 


I haven't welded the forks to the carriage yet.

valley ranch

Thanks for the information: how to post pictures.

 


I'm having to grind the tube to slide in, because that's what I have and what I have doesn't fit.

ozarkgem

rather than trying to file or sand the shaft down 1/8 take it to a machine shop and have it turned. You won't be able to get it round using a file and it will take a lonnnnnnng time and you will not be happy with the results. Plus you will need a keyway in it also.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Dave Shepard

Quote from: ozarkgem on February 14, 2015, 08:28:52 AM
rather than trying to file or sand the shaft down 1/8 take it to a machine shop and have it turned. You won't be able to get it round using a file and it will take a lonnnnnnng time and you will not be happy with the results. Plus you will need a keyway in it also.

smiley_thumbsup
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

BCsaw

Be careful about the centrifugal clutch. You need a clutch that will be able to transfer the power that you are supplying. A clutch for the larger shaft is more money but can handle the power without slipping. Don't put any clutch on there ensure it can do the job! I think you would be loosing valuable strength by reducing the diameter. Would be playing with fire in my opinion.

Take care and good luck with the build.
Inspiration is the ability to "feel" what thousands of others can't!
Homebuilt Band Sawmill, Kioti 2510 Loader Backhoe

valley ranch

ozarkgem, With the engine turning it will be a lathe, I can get it right.

I'd like to here more, what you guys think about the clutch, is there that much drag, is the belt going to slip?

If I was building a dune buggy I'd think differently.

Richard

pineywoods

Electric clutches on sawmills generally haven't worked out very well. You need to go look at as many sawmills as possible. Most of them use the old, tried and true loosened belt for a clutch. Much cheaper, simpler, works well and you can use multiple belts to handle up to 40-50 hp.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Hilltop366

With 18hp I would be tempted to go with 2 belts especially if you need to run a 3" on the motor pulley.

If you could go with a larger pulley on the engine and put a idler/tensioner on the slack side close to the pulley then one belt may do the trick.

boscojmb

Hi,
My mill has a centrifugal clutch and it works OK.
My engine is 51HP. My clutch is rated to 60HP and uses a 3B belt.
Starting the bandwheels from a dead stop is pushing the clutch to it's limit.
It seems like the clutch needs a higher HP rating than the engine.
I wish I had one size bigger clutch and a 4B belt. :)


I would not alter your crankshaft diameter for two reasons.

1.) Your crankshaft is hardened - most likely case hardened. If it is case hardened and you remove the hard outside it will break. Even if it's not case hardened, reducing the diameter by 1/8" will substantially reduce the strength.
2.) Sanding /filing/ grinding the crankshaft even while it's turning will make the crankshaft out of round. I suspect the clutch will break shaft keys and need repeated tightening.


John B.

Log-Master LM4

valley ranch

Well those are some things to think about. Maybe I will use an idler, I'll give it some more think.

Thanks

Richard

ozarkgem

Quote from: valley ranch on February 14, 2015, 11:24:38 AM
ozarkgem, With the engine turning it will be a lathe, I can get it right.

I'd like to here more, what you guys think about the clutch, is there that much drag, is the belt going to slip?

If I was building a dune buggy I'd think differently.

Richard
It won't be a lathe. No more than an axle on your car going down the road is a lathe. You will not be able to hold the cutter, file or what ever at the tolerance you need.  a lathe cutting tool is rigid and will not move when cutting.( assuming you lathe is not worn out). Give it a try on a throw away piece first. Just trying to save you a lot of time and money. You want it done right. 
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

kelLOGg

Quote from: pineywoods on February 14, 2015, 11:51:49 AM
Electric clutches on sawmills generally haven't worked out very well. You need to go look at as many sawmills as possible. Most of them use the old, tried and true loosened belt for a clutch. Much cheaper, simpler, works well and you can use multiple belts to handle up to 40-50 hp.

That's interesting, Piney. I had a problem of my belt slipping off when I disengaged while idling. I considered going to a clutch so the belt would never lose tension. Instead, I made a sorta cage with 1/4" steel rod around the belt to keep it close to the wheel. If I disengage slowly it stays aligned - at least so far.

Valley Ranch, maybe this will helpful.
Bob


Bob

 
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

valley ranch

Thanks guys, kelLOGg, glad you posted the picture.

Re: the clutch~ I was thinking a centrifugal that would engage at 1800rpm~

why would a clutch shear keys?

a centrifugal clutch doesn't slam on like when you drop the clutch in a race, it grips as the engine rpm rise, just as on a lawn tractor or go cart. Yes or no

Re: dressing the engine shaft~ I've dressed shafts on a lathe with file and crocus paper and kept
       tolerance, why would a running engine there be tolerance loss?

       On a different note: With tandem belts, I could still use an idler/tensioner right? If I went     
       that way.

Thanks for taking time and thinking with me. You fellows are working with mills and have a better view of some things.

I've been lead Mechanic and liked to cut up touches with the mechanics when it came to conveyors and other machines, how to get and keep them running.

It is a big help talking with you.

Richard


Joe Hillmann

Quote from: valley ranch on February 15, 2015, 01:18:27 PM


Re: dressing the engine shaft~ I've dressed shafts on a lathe with file and crocus paper and kept
       tolerance, why would a running engine there be tolerance loss?

     



When you are touching up a shaft or doing final polishing you are maybe taking of a few thousandths.  It is pretty easy to keep it round then.  You are wanting to take of .128 and there is a keyway in the way that is going to cause your file to bounce.  The more material you take of without something to hold you tool steady the more out of round it will be come.  When taking of a few thousandths there isn't much chance for it to get out of round.  When taking of 1/8 you will probably end up with an egg shape.  If it weren't for the key way you could do it using a graver and a rest if you are very careful (I said graver, not engraver, they are different)

valley ranch

KelLOGg, Wondering, did you make that mill?

Joe, You might be right about the file, how about cloth.

Richard

kelLOGg

Quote from: valley ranch on February 15, 2015, 06:29:50 PM
KelLOGg, Wondering, did you make that mill?

Richard

No. It is an MP32 made by CookSaw but I am flattered anyway. ;D  I did make a lot of modifications , not necessarily to make it better but to make like I wanted. I bought it before Cook had the options of sawhead up/down and forward/reverse so I made my own version of those options.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

valley ranch

 

  Hi Guys, Because I'm working on the mill, wifey and the girls showered me with kisses, tools a grape plant, {we'll plant it in a couple days down at the lower ranch} Oh! and look at the theme of the cake.

Richard

Magicman

Happy Birthday.  I love the sawmill.   ;D
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