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serious diesel motor problem , please help !

Started by UNCLEBUCK, November 04, 2004, 02:15:33 PM

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bighoss550

the ford 201's have 2 different head gaskets now. the older (pre-78) ones used a thin gasket that is now replaced with one #. the newer ones are replaced with a different #. 201's have serious seal problems at the back of the deck where the pressure oil goes up to the head.

u cant reuse headbolts on a 201. and u def cant reuse a gasket! and u cant put ANYTHING on the gasket!! the new ones come in 2 riveted layers(sometimes 3) and have a blue sealant already on them, and not on the areas that cant be coated. they have orings to seal the oil passage, and 1 other i think.
dont spray it. get new bolts, have the head decked, make SURE the block has less than .001" warpage, use brakleen and compresed air to clean out every bolt hole, use a dab of moly grease on the threads of each head bolt, and i suggest u take the hour or so to torque the head in 8-10lb steps up to 110 and NO MORE!!!

u HAVE to do it BY THE BOOK with these. every one of them that i have built, have gotten a .082 copper gasket and fire-rings top and bottom.

bighoss550

instead of a 8) on that post, it was supposed to say "pre-78"

haha ::)

UNCLEBUCK

bighoss u are exactly right and so is rebo and everybody else . my test of filling the coolant hole on the top of the block proved that I got a problem worse than I hoped for. All the coolant ran out within a few hours down through the oil pan and came out the oil drain plug so I think I am done for awhile and am going to put everything back on and park it . I overhauled this myself going step by step using the i.t .manual about 10 years ago but I did not touch the sleeves so I guess it was waiting to happen . I just dont have the time and energy to tackle this but thought I could get by with a quick fix if the trouble was from my mistake of using the old headbolts . thanks everyone for all this and I learned alot again about motors and especially additives and headbolts . oh well oh well maybe in a few months I will do it right this time ! you guys are the greatest
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

ladylake

3 raesons for water in the oil.  
Bad head gasket.
Bad o-rings on a wet sleeve engine.
Shot oil cooler if it has one.
Cracked head or block.
OK 4 reasons   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

ladylake

Uncle Buck  
After reading your last post it really sounds like the o-rings. 5th reason would be pitted cylinders (already mentioned) but they would cause water to blow out the radiator rather than water in the oil. You would be able to see them with the pison all the way down.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

UNCLEBUCK

I looked at each cylinder with the piston down at the bottom of the stroke and the sleeves are smooth as can be . The book says to dry ice new sleeves in and also use locktight .I have never attempted to do sleeves but there is always a first time if it comes to that . When you say o-rings I guess that would be for wet sleeves? The book says some of these blocks are sleeveless but this one definately has sleeves . I really worked the motor for 8 hours loading manure and never had a hint of a problem and all of a sudden the white steam and black smoke poured out and lost all power . thanks for responding . I got a ounce of hope again but I better take one good last look at things before I give up
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

Mark M

Buck, I doubt if this tis your problem but a plugged waterpump weep hole can put coolant in the engine. If the hole is plugged and a seal goes bad the coolant can't drip out and instead goes into the engine. This is the first thing we tell people to check for and it is very common.

Mark.

UNCLEBUCK

Hi Mark , I am going to check that out tomorrow and I guess by process of elimination I will get to it . Its a real puzzler to me because I never had to deal with something like this before , just when I think I know everything I find that I dont know nothing , kind of like sawing I guess !  I better have at this beast in the morning and by dark I guess I will either have it tore apart or ready to go get new headbolts in fargo . thanks again , I read about your heavy diesel experience . Seems like there is alot of diesel doctors here at the forum . thats good for dummies like myself !
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

ladylake

Buck  Hopefully Mark is right about the waterpump.  Your right  o-rings are on wet sleeve motors. If you have dry sleeves and leaking water in the oil could be a cracked block. Lets hope it's the waterpump.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

bighoss550

201's are dry sleve. and that date should have been 6/69. dont know why i had 78 in my head:)

what backhoe do u have? i assume a 4500??
u almost surely have a split block :'(

but when u are ready to put her back together, call me..... the whole engine kit for ur engine (everything from pan gasket to valve cover gasket, pistons, bearings, gaskets, valves....everything) is 335 bucks:) i became a dealer because i got tired of the dealerships gouging ya for 200% markup!!

both of my father's backhoes have 201's and he was quoted 910 bucks for that same kit!!! >:( the kit without the valves and stuf for the head is 287:)  (thats the price that i pay, and i dont wanna make any money off ya, i hope i can help)

customsawyer

One more small bit of info on this subject.
A very good friend of mine is runs a radiator shop and he recomends that when you change your coolant and water mix you should always use distilled water he says that it don't have all the menrals that your regular tap water has and isn't as hard on your engine. I ain't no mechanic but this makes since to me.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Mark M


DanG

By Crackie, ain't this a great place?  I'm a bony-fied oldtimer here, and the knowledge and helpfulness on The Forestryforum continues to boggle my mind!  Ain't there ANYTHING that somebody here don't know? ???

Good luck, UncleBuck!  Oops, I'm a poet and don't know it. Hope I don't strain my brain. ;D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

redpowerd

NO FARMERS -- NO FOOD
northern adirondak yankee farmer

Jason_WI

If you want to get that tractor up and running I recomend using these guys:

http://www.alexanderstractorparts.com/

They only do Ford stuff. We re-powered our Ford 9000 tractor with a rebuilt short block and head this spring. No problems at all with their work and their service is excellent. Saved over $4000 by doing the work ourselves vs the dealer. The dealer couldn't believe the price for the block and head either.

Jason
Norwood LM2000, 20HP Honda, 3 bed extentions. Norwood Edgemate edger. Gehl 4835SXT

UNCLEBUCK

Well I got a crack in the block , the radiator had a 1/2 inch of straw and moist dirt particles packed in it so I should have put a screen in front of the grill . Bighoss its a 4500 ford ! I just sent a email to worthington tractor as I see they have 3 ford 201 motors , new,rebuilt and used . By the time I found a block and put the sleeve kit and pistons etc.. I am thinking I will see what a rebuilt costs and what is included . Been reading how to change sleeves or if I can find a miracle stop leak solution too . I guess this next time I will take better care of my old backhoe . Thanks again everybody and Bighoss in a few days I will email you here once I know what I find at worthington . Thanks for the website Jason . redpowered I wish it was frost plugs , man this couldnt have happened at a worse time but when it rains it pours . Thanks Mark and DanG
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

bighoss550

my dad has a couple of these in the back of the shop i think. if not i know who he sold em to:) ill ask today what happened to em. i also have 2 other old timers that tinker with diesels to ask..... one has every diesel known to man sitttin in his huge building.

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