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OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts

Started by grb5043, August 27, 2020, 07:03:53 PM

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Tacotodd

@ZeroJunk and @Real1shepherd , just calm it and go to your separate corners.

Just remember, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Leave it at that.
Trying harder everyday.

trimguy


joe_indi

Aftermarket parts are fine for saws that we term as ' beyond economical repair' if it were to be done with OE parts
Similarly, we have situations of saws being wrecked in the hands of careless workers, whether OE parts or AM are used. In such cases AM costs less for the customer
We also get a category of users who are a couple of grades below weekend so warriors. These types use their saws maybe once in two months, or three months and don't bother to drain out the fuel . And for them it is easier for you to replace filters and carbs than spend time cleaning them out. And here the AM comes handy.
But for pros who depend on their saws for their livelihood, OEM is the only option. So also for those non pro users who keep their saws in top condition.
I have tried all types of AM and have found them undependable most of the time, life span unknown.

The joke doing the rounds currently is that for the first time we have got  something from China that has lasted more than 3 months  ;D

Tacotodd

Trying harder everyday.

sawguy21

 :D :D :D That is a good one.
:D :D
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Al_Smith

As general info many manufacturers have moved some degree of their parts to the Asian Pacific rim.Often times the quality has suffered .One   manufacture of orange saws at one time had their carbs made in Japan which were good quality but after moving same to China had many problems .As I understand it that has been corrected .
After working for 29 years for a major automotive company and previously for just nearly all the others .I can attest  those parts come from all over the world no matter if it's Ford,GM or Honda or Navistar .I have no doubt Caterpillar and John -Deere is about the same .

joe_indi

Al, the OE manufacturers moving manufacturing from their countries to the Asian region is understandable ( maybe not acceptable in their home countries since they also pull jobs in the process), since it is for reducing over heads. But they manufacture using the same molds and dies. The AM supply is done with molds and dies made by reverse engineering. So precision may be lost. Also raw materials used may not be virgin, instead metal scrap is recycled. This is where the problem lies.
Many Stihl users may recall the white mark on the muffler. Do you see it anymore in your countries? I don't see it here anymore

Air Lad

Our Fujitsu and Daikin brand of AC's come with PRC and Thailand on the boxes.
Japanese parts but. 
Still the top of the tree for quality around here.
What that means I dunno  say_what

Spike60

K1 and deisel are most likely in my shop AL. Don't think I ever saw the antifreeze trick. Along with the water that is quite common, the refrain is: "I don't know how that got in there." There's plenty of talk about the superiority of pro saws on these sites and often looking down our noses at the plastic homeowner saws. But those poor saws have to endure a different kind of abuse that pro saws rarely see. Some of the clowns who run homeowner saws don't really know enough about them to even own one. It's scary considering the dangers involved vs say a weed wacker.

3/4 of homeowner saws come in with a droopy chain. As in like a suspension bridge droopy with drive links well below the bar. Nearly all of the chains are dull beyond belief. Those chains are black along with a blue/black patina on the clutch drum testifying to the amount of heat that was present as the operator insisted on forcing that dull chain to cut. But if you really want to generate heat, how about running the saw with the brake on wondering why the chain isn't moving? That trick will melt the case and trash the saw. "No, I'm afraid that isn't warranty." Homeowner saws do not lead an easy life. :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Al_Smith

 :D Let me explain the anti freeze .At that time I kept my 2 cycle fuel in old anti freeze plastic jugs because I had  a lot of them .It wasn't a good idea .The anti freeze and the color of the mix oil was about the same which caused me to over look things .Things like this happen when you get in a hurry .
On the saw thing believe me I've seen tree trimmers saws more abused than occasional user owned .
A few years back this area was the hardest hit during a monumental once in a blue moon ice storm in the entire USA .Because of a rush to get enough saws the trimmers bought a bunch of less expensive Stihl saws like 029's and 039's .They lasted about 1 to 2 years under that abuse and I have a box full of them,parts in my shed .They just couldn't stand up to that kind of treatment .
When the storm hit the dealer I do business with supplier in Cincinnati sent two semis full of saws etc .and they were gone in less than one week .They stayed open 20 hours a day during the clean up that lasted about 3 or 4 weeks .During that time I had previously  ordered some parts and bless their hearts I got a phone call about 3 days later they were in, in spite of how busy they were .That's why I do business with them .--more>

Al_Smith

I know the owner of that business which is the largest Toro showroom in the entire USA .About 6 years ago I bought a new Toro Titan 54" zero turn and the owner delivered it .He took a look at my shed which has maybe 20 Stihl saws along with maybe 30 more of different makes .Of course some are modified which as a dealer he can't do with franchising regulations .I'm not a dealer so I have no rules .I told him a few tricks in case at some time he wanted to build a hotty on the QT . ;) 

ZeroJunk

Just another thought, the difference in color between road taxed diesel and Stihl HP Ultra doesn't exactly jump out at you.  Wonder why they didn't dye it some funky color ?

Spike60

Al, I have a logger friend that loses, runs over and just goes through gas cans. Hates the spill nozzles, not to mention the price of the cans. Solution is whatever jug is laying around. Bar oil, trans fluid, laundry detergent, whatever works. Laundry jugs do have some nice pouring spouts ya know. :D

On the homeowner saws getting beat up, I hope I didn't imply that they live an easier life than pro saws. Just that they see a different form of abuse from inexperienced users. My tree guys really hammer their saws too. ANY saw will lose a battle with gravity. :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Spike60

Quote from: Spike60 on August 31, 2020, 02:25:43 PM
Al, I have a logger friend that loses, runs over and just goes through gas cans. Hates the spill nozzles, not to mention the price of the cans. Solution is whatever jug is laying around. Bar oil, trans fluid, laundry detergent, whatever works. Laundry jugs do have some nice pouring spouts ya know. :D

On the homeowner saws getting beat up, I hope I didn't imply that they live a harder life than pro saws. Just that they see a different form of abuse from inexperienced users. My tree guys really hammer their saws too. ANY saw will lose a battle with gravity. :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Al_Smith

What few home owner saws I work on most time if they don't start they just buy a new one .Then eventually sell them to somebody and then here they come saw in hand .Usually it's just a carb rebuild .Once though it was filter so clogged up it couldn't breathe .I'm sure we've all seen our share of real doozies .
My bud the trimmer replaced his whole fleet about two yeas ago and hasn't had enough time to beat them up yet .When he did replace them I added to my collection about 6 more saws which BTW run just fine after I tinkered with them .He's such a Stihl loyalist I even got a fairly nice 281 Husky on that haul which really is a nice older saw .Alas though it has just became another shelf queen . 

Spike60

Shelf queens are part of the hobby, and I've got a bunch myself. I respect that not everyone sees it that way, thinking every saw ought to get some run time. But once you get the "collector" bug, you end up with more saws than it's feasible to run, regardless of whether they are mint queen bees on the shelf or scuffed up worker bees on the garage floor. Just dust the 281 off now and then.
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Real1shepherd

And then some of us have kept our #'s down......so we're using saws that are all running and the ones that aren't used, aren't running yet....lol

That way I don't have any guilt or shelf queens...just saws that run/work and saws that need restoring. 8)

What happens when I get them all running....dunno!


Kevin

Al_Smith

I get the bug every so often to raise one from the dead I know I'll never really use .Believe me I've got some boat anchors but in the day they made their bones .On the other hand some will really surprise you regardless of their age .

Spike60

I sure wasn't very good at keeping the numbers down. Couple times I declared that a certain number would be a stopping point, but then just blew by it. A model I didn't have yet. Often it would be a saw with a top end failure that was otherwise in too nice a shape to NOT fix it. Like Al, sometines I get a hankering to bring something back to life in the workshop at home. Couple beers, music on, just a great place to hang out.

Some saws get sold. Have a waiting group of guys that'll take every pro saw I can put together. The other stuff I keep in the back; won't put used/rebuilt saws on the shelf. Kevin got ripped a couple months ago for use the word "cheapskate". Well, the reality is there are such things. There's a big difference between someone who really can't afford something and some "cheapskate" in a $60,000 German SUV who comes in and says "what do ya got used?" before he says hello. So, I feel people out a bit before mentioning that I have something in the back. :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Woodfarmer

I had a 2165 rebuilt, ordered an OEM husky piston....made in China. Was not impressed. Husqvarna claims that their strictest quality control is followed at those plants in China. So if I ever have to do it again I will probably go Meteor.

Spike60

Quote from: Woodfarmer on September 02, 2020, 07:24:22 AM
I had a 2165 rebuilt, ordered an OEM husky piston....made in China. Was not impressed. Husqvarna claims that their strictest quality control is followed at those plants in China. So if I ever have to do it again I will probably go Meteor.
Yup, the 550 top ends that came from China were quite a mess. Very premature loss of compression with no visible signs of scoring. Less than 10 hours on a saw and it wouldn't run. Those top ends are now from somewhere else, and the price went way up also. Like you, I wouldn't want an "oem" piston from China either. But now it looks like anything that isn't from Sweden or Germany is from Brazil, where both Mahle and Kolbenschmidt have facilities. 
I'd be cautious with Meteor though as most of it is not from Italy anymore. They seem to have cozied up to Hyway, so paying a premium for a Hyway in a Meteor box isn't where any of us want to be. 
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Real1shepherd

Quote from: Spike60 on September 02, 2020, 09:13:09 AM
Quote from: Woodfarmer on September 02, 2020, 07:24:22 AM
I had a 2165 rebuilt, ordered an OEM husky piston....made in China. Was not impressed. Husqvarna claims that their strictest quality control is followed at those plants in China. So if I ever have to do it again I will probably go Meteor.
Yup, the 550 top ends that came from China were quite a mess. Very premature loss of compression with no visible signs of scoring. Less than 10 hours on a saw and it wouldn't run. Those top ends are now from somewhere else, and the price went way up also. Like you, I wouldn't want an "oem" piston from China either. But now it looks like anything that isn't from Sweden or Germany is from Brazil, where both Mahle and Kolbenschmidt have facilities.
I'd be cautious with Meteor though as most of it is not from Italy anymore. They seem to have cozied up to Hyway, so paying a premium for a Hyway in a Meteor box isn't where any of us want to be.
Bob,
I hate to hear that about Meteor....that sucks. Outsourcing away from the mother country almost always leads to inevitable quality loss.

I have a friend up near Toronto that collects saw. I first knew him when he had under 30 saws. He's not sure how many he has now, but way over a hundred. I'll give him this though...he pays very little for them usually, or they follow him home. And he has a friend up north that watches the dump for him.

Just got a Pro MAC 850 that way. He fixes and restores everything. He started with mostly reed valve saws, but wound up with some ported saws.
Anyway, I admire the fact that he pays very little for saws and scours the auction places. Like you, lots of guys from the States want his saws. He doesn't have access to some models because they didn't appear in Canada much. But he's patient and he waits.....what he wants usually turns up.

Great guy and the best kind of collector! If I could be retired, I'd be doing the same thing.

Kevin

Spike60

Patience does pay off. Have an advantage with the shop, because sooner or later just about anything comes through the door. And the saw values are "real world"; meaning cheap. Most people consider old saws to be little more than junk that doesn't run cluttering up the garage. It's only in the hobby/collector arena where you see these inflated prices.

I do have a nice PM850 I got from a dealer I know. His Dad was a Mac dealer from something like 1947. Do they go back that far? One of the 2 Macs that I kept. Unlike Walter's PM700, mine idles. You reading this Walt? :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Al_Smith

Well now on those Macs you have to  remember with  the age it's hard to say how many parts actually were original  or what got swapped from  another model .Unlike certain modern saws which I won't mention that use model specific parts .
A  700 most likely had a Walbro SDC carb I think but a Tillotson model HS was used on some of the 10 series .I know from experience on certain HS models they had a little slot,divit on the bottom of the throttle butterfly plate that had to align with the idle jet .It could get slightly tilted and if so either would not idle well or not idle at all .What happens is it does not pass enough air over the jet to suck the fuel out .Unless the throttle butterfly was held open by the idle screw.If so then  they idled pretty fast .
That little info  tid bit I really didn't know until a guy from Florida enlightened me .Sure enough he was right .Just a thought . 

HolmenTree

I culled my saw herd down to just a 562XP, two 066mags and a battery 536XPT. About all I need for my tree service.
Though I do have one collector in my attic that will get a rebuild and hopefully hang onto it. A late 1970's very low hour Jonsereds 70E.
A friend gave it to me and my interest in it was I never ran a 70E back in my logging days, I went straight to the "saw of the future" 910E at the time.

The 70E and 910E were the last true Jonsereds before Electrolux bought out the company.
I may like my 70E so much I may just put it to work on the company payroll.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

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