Having a real hard time starting my D34 on my LT40 in cold weather

CalebL · November 30, 2011, 01:15:42 PM

How much difference will a block heater make and where does it wire up at?

When the temps get below 45 it takes forever to it to start up. I usually turn the glow plugs on for 30-45 seconds before each ignition. Puffs black smoke but won't start. Start over. Usually by the 4th or 5th time it will bust off. I've tried the fuel treatment and it didn't seem to help much. Starting in warm temp it fires right up on the first ignition.

Dave Shepard · November 30, 2011, 01:32:01 PM

We installed a block heater on our 51 HP Cat. You have to drain the coolant and punch out a frost plug in the block. It makes a big difference. In cold weather, I manually hold the throttle open a little on the engine to keep it from stalling. Not unusual to have to try a couple times before it stays running.

mad murdock · November 30, 2011, 01:33:17 PM

check your glow plugs and make sure they are working properly. a poor performing glow plug is as bad as none at all. Are you using #2 diesel or #1 diesel? you may want to make sure fuel is not an issue, if you are getting close to freezing temps, you will want to get rid of the #2 and switch to #1. A trick I used in bush Alaska in extreme cold temps was to take a jug of hot as you can get tap water, and splash it onto the carb or intake area of the engine(outside, so water does not get in the actual air intake) made a difference in -20 and below temps. A block heater makes a big difference in ease of starting on an engine. The symptoms you describe, makes me think that you may have glow plug(s) that are below par. You can check them with an ohm meter quickly to see if they are good or bad. Disconnect the wire to the plug, and read resistance between the glow plug terminal and the engine block. if one is burnt you will indicate an open.

sealark37 · November 30, 2011, 01:36:40 PM

You might check around to see if you can purchase some #1 diesel fuel. It will help your cold start problem. If it is not available, you can mix #2 diesel fuel and kerosene 1:1 to make your own #1. You can also install one of several block heaters that will help. Regards, Clark

ladylake · November 30, 2011, 01:40:44 PM

I'll agree with bad glow plugs or power to them, check for power to them 1st with a test light then as above. I found out the hard way that I can only hold the glow plugs on for 5 to 7 seconds without burning them out but that little Isuzu will start right down to 0 f when they work. Steve

Dave Shepard · November 30, 2011, 04:35:38 PM

Remember, this is a Perkapiller. Hard starting in the cold is not a symptom of something wrong, it's just a symptom that it's a Perkapiller. ;) We've got almost 500 hours on ours now, and it starts much better, but nothing like a Kubota or Yanmar.

woodmills1 · November 30, 2011, 07:12:22 PM

I have the 62 tubo on my 70 and it is hard even when just may be cold

I did find a cracked glow plug last year but only a little better

funny my cat 416b back hoe almost same 3204 engine stars no glow plug to 10 degrees

engine starter speed I think

my durimax spins right up cold, but I can tell it is cranking much faster than the woodmizer perka

red oaks lumber · November 30, 2011, 07:17:18 PM

its not the fuel, 45 deg. is not cold enough to gel anything... check glow plugs or wiring

Bibbyman · November 30, 2011, 07:29:52 PM

Does it have a manual fuel pump lever? I find pumping the fuel up about 10 strokes and then holding the throttle open helps a lot. Also a fully charged battery.

CalebL · November 30, 2011, 07:41:27 PM

I am running off road diesel (it says it's ultra low sulfur) and other than that I don't know what it is. I am running Lucas Extreme Cold Temp Fuel Treatment to help keep the fuel from gelling and it says it helps starting in cold weather. It didn't seem to help at all.

The glow plugs are fine as I have checked them with a ohm meter. Once the engine does start, I have no problems starting anytime I shut it down for the rest of the day. I try to start out early in the morning so I pull my mill to location a lot of times before sunrise making it even colder. I hate how long it takes to start as it can't be good for my battery or my starter. The mill now has almost 550 hours on it.

The engine has no problem turning over so I am guessing the block heater would need to be used on the water system. I just don't see how this would help that much but am willing to try anything at this point.

CalebL · November 30, 2011, 07:59:36 PM

Quote from: Bibbyman on November 30, 2011, 07:29:52 PM
Does it have a manual fuel pump lever? I find pumping the fuel up about 10 strokes and then holding the throttle open helps a lot. Also a fully charged battery.

No manual fuel pump lever. However I added a rubber hand pump bulb to the fuel tank because of how hard it is to restart after running out of fuel.

Dave Shepard · November 30, 2011, 08:05:52 PM

It didn't come with the hand pump bulb? I thought that was standard on all of the WM fuel systems. If your plugs are reading out ok with the ohm meter, try pumping the bulb for a bit to purge out any air that may be getting in, then hold the throttle arm about 1/2 way open on the injector pump when you crank it. Once it starts, it's going to try and rev up, just try to keep the engine rpms up enough so it doesn't die. These engine only have to run for 5-10 seconds to be warm enough to idle on their own.

Larry · November 30, 2011, 08:10:19 PM

Its amazing how much better a diesel starts with a block heater. I've had a bunch over the years. My old JD-4030 took 12 hours to come up to starting temperature. More typical is my little Ford tractor. It takes about 30 minutes to come up to temperature and than starts like hot summer time. As a bonus I think it's a lot easier on the engine starting after its been warmed up a bit.

The block heater plugs into AC. I wonder if a mobile sawyer could put a inverter in the truck and plug the block heater into that on the way to the job?

Dirty/out of adjustment injectors will also cause the problem but with only 550 hours I can't see that as being it.

When on the farm I used Power Service supplement...mainly to take care of condensation in the bulk tank. It was supposed to also help with starting. I've changed my viewpoint a bit over the years as to the necessity of some of the supplements. Don't use anything now.

CalebL · November 30, 2011, 08:18:53 PM

Quote from: Dave Shepard on November 30, 2011, 08:05:52 PM
It didn't come with the hand pump bulb? I thought that was standard on all of the WM fuel systems. If your plugs are reading out ok with the ohm meter, try pumping the bulb for a bit to purge out any air that may be getting in, then hold the throttle arm about 1/2 way open on the injector pump when you crank it. Once it starts, it's going to try and rev up, just try to keep the engine rpms up enough so it doesn't die. These engine only have to run for 5-10 seconds to be warm enough to idle on their own.

If it did it didn't have one on it when I bought it. I learned real quick that it's a must if you ever run it out of fuel.

CalebL · November 30, 2011, 08:21:30 PM

Quote from: Larry on November 30, 2011, 08:10:19 PM
Its amazing how much better a diesel starts with a block heater. I've had a bunch over the years. My old JD-4030 took 12 hours to come up to starting temperature. More typical is my little Ford tractor. It takes about 30 minutes to come up to temperature and than starts like hot summer time. As a bonus I think it's a lot easier on the engine starting after its been warmed up a bit.

The block heater plugs into AC. I wonder if a mobile sawyer could put a inverter in the truck and plug the block heater into that on the way to the job?

Dirty/out of adjustment injectors will also cause the problem but with only 550 hours I can't see that as being it.

When on the farm I used Power Service supplement...mainly to take care of condensation in the bulk tank. It was supposed to also help with starting. I've changed my viewpoint a bit over the years as to the necessity of some of the supplements. Don't use anything now.

I wondered about that also. I couldn't see how a 12 volt heater would do anything, if they even make one. Most of my sawing is done mobile in the middle of no where. I don't feel like carrying a generator just to start my saw.

My Kubota fires right up even at 5 degrees. I guess I have been spoiled a bit.

I will try some of the tips on Friday. Thanks again guys.

Coon · November 30, 2011, 08:26:56 PM

You could definately plug a block heater into an inverter providing it is big enough and then the next thing would be battery storage. The bigger inverters suck alot of juice from a battery so you would most likely have to keep the truck idling high enough that it keeps the battery charged up.

beenthere · November 30, 2011, 08:44:46 PM

Have you checked the compression? Sounds like there is not enough compression or that the glo plugs are not actively doing their job (test ok but not functioning ok). Only leaves the injectors or pump.
Going with a heater is just a band-aid on the problem at 40 deg.

Larry · November 30, 2011, 08:45:43 PM

Quote from: Coon on November 30, 2011, 08:26:56 PM
The bigger inverters suck alot of juice from a battery so you would most likely have to keep the truck idling high enough that it keeps the battery charged up.

Plug it into the inverter while driving to the job. Here again I'm just guessing cause I don't know how many amps a block heater pulls.

cypresskayaksllc · November 30, 2011, 08:52:07 PM

Move to Florida

Bandmill Bandit · November 30, 2011, 08:55:01 PM

I would recommend a 1500 watt circulating block heater.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=KAT13150_0330983968

IF access to power is an issue then g to the Wabasto diesel fired engine heater.

http://www.webastoshowroom.com/images/truck_trifold.pdf

If your engine has only become hard starting in the last while and was a good before then I would start by pulling the injectors and get them tested and reset/conditioned as required, but with only 500 hours this should not be a problem. I missed the bit about the engine being a Perkipillar. Good motor jsut a a tough starter when there is even a breath of frost in the air, although it is better than the old Perkins were.

Another option is to get a connection kit so that you can just hook it to your truck with the heater hoses break away fittings and warm it up that way. Used to do the 60 s 70 s vintage D7s and D8s and the IH TD models that way in the oil field. i would think that little engine would be up to operation temp in about 10 or 15 minutes.

Took about a half ish hour on those 3406 Cats and a few of the other Detroit, IH and JD engine models.

Ron Wenrich · December 01, 2011, 06:26:21 AM

We have block heaters on all our diesels. We aren't mobile, so that helps quite a bit. But, when it gets really cold, we have to give it a sniff of ether to get them started. Don't know if that applies to the newer diesels.

thecfarm · December 01, 2011, 06:33:53 AM

Hooking it up to your truck when you get at the job would really be the easiest way. Nothing else to carry around,or to forget to bring.

Bibbyman · December 01, 2011, 07:13:29 AM

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on December 01, 2011, 06:26:21 AM
We have block heaters on all our diesels. We aren't mobile, so that helps quite a bit. But, when it gets really cold, we have to give it a sniff of ether to get them started. Don't know if that applies to the newer diesels.

I've been told not to use ether on engines with glow plugs. The glow plugs could make the ether explode!

ladylake · December 01, 2011, 07:36:14 AM

Just a thought, how long should the glow plugs be held on, are they automatically timed. My little Isuzu takes 5 or 6 seconds, any longer they will burn out but they are not timed. If the catper uses the same plugs 30 to 40 seconds is way too long, if timed they will heat for 5 to 7 seconds turn off and get cold, if not timed they are burnt out. Steve

TimGA · December 01, 2011, 08:03:46 AM

The reason a block heater works is it heats the water , that heats the block, that heats the air in the cylinders. Diesals ignition comes from the heat of the compressed fuel air mixture in the cylinder, it has no spark to ignite it. The glow plugs get red hot in the top of the cylinder to help ignite your fuel air mix for your cold start. I am not familar with this engine, but if you can keep the fuel shut off, spin the engine to heat the cylinders and air, stop spinning, run your glow plugs, start as normal. I would recheck Glow Plugs fuction, as this is only a cold start problem, I agree with others 40 degrees should not be a problem. The block heater would work for sure, but I understand mobility issue, inverter would work as stated. I would call manufacture for advice and solution only 500hrs still brand new. From other posts appears this is a issue with this motor. Hope this helps. Tim