Hollow tree advice

[chipsfly09]

Maybe one day I can give some advice rather than asking all the time--?

I have cut quite a few trees-- I always hate to cut hollow ones-- Any advice on technique for doing this safely as there is a lack of "hinge wood" especially if tree is dead.  The poplar I am looking at is large diameter (to me at least) +- 25-30 inches at base and approx 60 feet-- dead as a hammer and hollow.

Thanks
Chris

[beenthere]

Mostly, be real careful and keep control of the tree (but you know that). 

Is there a lean to it? If so, make a shallow undercut, and use 2-3 wedges in the back-cut. Try to either fall to the lean, or rope it and pull from a safe distance. Maybe use a snatch block to get the right angle of pull, and stay out of the fall line.

Knowing it is hollow puts you at an advantage.  Keep that advantage.

Being dead, means top limbs/stems can fall early and/or snap back if the tree is jerked. Make smooth, even pulls.

I don't like them hollow either, but they come down. 

[Kevin]

Make the face as low as you can in the trunk.
Nip below the hinge if roots are present.
Be careful that there isn't anything in the top that can fall out or break off when you are under it, even when wedging.
If the top hits anything on the way over it can break off and fall back on you.

[Al_Smith]

Well most likely you don't know what a "barber chair " is .That's when you cut a hard leaner and the tree breaks out above and could possibley come back on you .It literally swings over the hinge .

One way to prevent this or help is to bind above the cut with a stout log chain and a binder .Maybe several .

Now on a hollow and rotten tree the stupid thing could collapse on you .Chains and binders are a help with this situation also .Be carefull though no matter what you do .

[cheyenne]

As it just so happens, I just dropped a dead hollow poplar in my side yard this afternoon. Plan A - I got a rope up her about 24' put some tension on her with the 4 wheeler because she was all hollow in the bottom and about 24" at the butt. i thought she would snap but no way. Plan B - left the wheeler hooked up made a shallow back cut, more tension,  no work. Plan C - have a beer and survey the situation. Plan D - tape dynamite stick to butt,  go sit on deck, open beer, Plan E - BIG BOOM tree on ground, SUCCESS---- But now I'm to drunk to clean up the mess. Thank god for tomorrows........Cheyenne

[blaze83]

chris,

how hollow is the tree? is it leaning in the direction you would like it to fall? how long has it been dead?  does it have a "cat face"  or open side where the rot started? sorry, lots of questions but important information to get the tree on the ground safely.  if you could get a picture posted that would really help.  If there is 5 or 6 inches of solid wood around the outside circumference of the tree, and you can fall it with the lean, it should not be to much of a problem.....no different that boring out your hinge to save from stump pull in my opinion.  It gets tricky when there is a cat face  or rotten areas that pertrude to the outer edge of the trunk.  I have cut trees with a high stump at times to get above some of the rot, just depends on the tree.

just blabbing, I'm sure there will be some on that can give you good advice coupled with the good ideas already mentioned.


be safe,

Steve

[rickywashere]

well there are lots of great advice given in each post // but a pic would help sooooooo much on how to address this .each tree is different and how to cut it as well.  dead trees always post a danger of falling limbs plus many other dangers such as hinge breaking off .. to name a few your best bet is read all the post and use your best judgment as your the one thats sticking the saw in it and you should be fine softwood trees aren't so bad  even if they are dead and hollow if you have a little lean to it .. 

[rebocardo]

For most urban trees, but, especially for hollow ones I get at least two deadman/anchor lines into the tree so it can't fall back on me.  I like to put them at different heights through major crotches.

Then one winch line to pull it over.

I wrap the trunk in chain above the cut, helps prevent barberchairs. If I have enough chain I wrap another below the cut too. I tried the Figure 8 some have mentioned, but, I worry about hitting the chain.

I shake the tree if possible enough to break and dislodge widow makers, not enough to crack the tree.

I cut about crotch  height. Three reasons, one so I can run quickly if the tree splits or comes down, two so I do not get punk water in my face, three if it happens to be full of wild life such as yellow jackets I can get out of there quickly. Plus, you can hold the saw firmly so it it gets pushed back it breaks or jams or the brake sets.

[Rocky_J]

Different people have different mental images of 'hollow'. The size of the hollow isn't as important as the thickness of the solid wood. As long as you have a few inches of solid wood in which to make your hinge, you're fine. Some people freak out if there's a 2" hollow in the middle of a 24" trunk. I don't get too nervous unless there's less than 2" of wood or if there's a big rotten hollow on one side that goes more than a third of the way around the trunk.

[chipsfly09]

Thanks for all the feedback on this--

I plan to put a cable in the tree as high as possible-- I have a 40' ladder and will think about spiking up higher if it looks ok-- not likely-- I like the idea of having other ropes on the tree but have wondered about anchor points-- a little bit of back lean on this tree <5 degrees.  There are really no structures the tree could hit if it fell any direction-- just me--
Sounds like putting a chain around the trunk would be a good idea

I think there will be enough solid wood to make this relatively simple.  I still get a little feeling when I fell any tree-- especially a holler one--

I do like the dyanmite idea though  ;D

[chipsfly09]

I misspelled  dino-mite ???

[beenthere]

I'd be most careful putting a 40' ladder against a hollow, dead tree. That adds a whole new dimension of danger to this task, I think. Getting up 20-24' on this 60' tree should be plenty for pulling against 5° lean.

I wouldn't add more danger to trying to get it to fall against the lean. Just fell it in the direction of the 5° lean and be done with it. IMO.

[Glenn]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned bore cutting.  That's the best for hollow trees since you have holding wood intil the end.  I think climbing a tree to tie a line on is more dangerous than cutting without a line.  I would only ever use a line if the tree was leaning heavily towards a house.

[chipsfly09]

I need to put a line on it as the direction of lean will cause the tree to fall on another person's property and the tree could damage some of the land owner's ornamentals and other small trees-- not like hitting a house but still undesirable--

not familiar with bore cutting.

Thanks,
Chris

[chipsfly09]

You are absolutely right-- beenthere-- don't think i need 40' of leverage

chris

[Glenn]

Bore cutting is when you cut your notch, whichever type you prefer, then you bore into the tree 2 or 3 inches behind the notch and cut back towards the back of the tree leaving about 3- 4 inches of wood holding. Then you cut the holding wood from the outside just like you were starting the backcut.  Works great for heavy leaning trees too.

[rickywashere]

Bore cutting is when you cut your notch, whichever type you prefer, then you bore into the tree 2 or 3 inches behind the notch and cut back towards the back of the tree leaving about 3- 4 inches of wood holding. Then you cut the holding wood from the outside just like you were starting the backcut.  Works great for heavy leaning trees too.

we call that hinge cutting here and its great for hardwood but with a small softwood well relatively small softwood he should be fine cutting from the back with a notch and a guide rope 

[stonebroke]

but with a hollow tree you can establish the hinge before you start the heavy work. It is also nicer to only have to pull the chainsaw back a few inches to disengage the tree when it starts to go over. Much safer.

Stonebroke

[rickywashere]

my self if the tree is that dangerous i would cut a notch apply pressure with the pull rope make sure my saw is razor sharp and full of gas //// stick it in the back wait till it started moving in the right direction saw sec or 2 more then haul butt cause once it starts going that extra couple secs will allow weight to shift fully and then really its up to god and how good the tie rope is pulling it

[AndyC]

I can understand your gut feeling when felling a tree and also a back leaning hollow tree.  I do the same thing as I am very respectful of the power of the tree and the saw (and usually people watching).   

Every tree is way different when hollow so I can't offer any advice without specifics and pictures as I am just a novice but I have 5 big beech trees I need to get away from my shed so I feel your pain in hollows - beech are disgusting nasty trees that only hollow as their fun excercise it seems.  Good luck -take some pictures. 

[Al_Smith]

Well on a hollow rotten tree there really isn't much left to bore .The center is already gone . :D

Oh you can do it ,bore through side to side and plant a wedge on each side then finish out center to back .If you don't wedge it you end up on a leaner pinching the bar .There you stand thumb in butt with a stuck saw .

Pull line,grand plan .Too much pull you can collapse the dang thing ,too little you've pinched your saw again .

[chipsfly09]

I'm going to cut the tree some time next week-- I'll try to get some pictures (my wife does not alllow me to use her digital camera--she says every time I think about using it the thing breaks-- I don't let .... er ..... um.... recommend that she use my saws either). 

I hope the pics are not of me standing there with my thumb up somewhere with a pinched saw-- or worse ;)

Thanks
Chris

[chipsfly09]

I finally got those trees down-- Of course it was raining pretty good so we did not get too hot.  They acted about like what I expected-- but the smallest one was the squirreliest-- the guy said they had been dead for over three years--- Best part-- I did not have to clean up the mess     Thanks for the advice