Depth Gauges/Rakers

zinc oxide · January 22, 2020, 07:43:16 AM

I hope that I do the 'reply' correctly, couldn't find any tutorials but maybe I didn't look hard enough.

Added more to my profile, thanks for the reminder. Haste makes waste. Actually live just outside the city of Weirton.

To All, Thank you for the real world advice!

From what I can tell, 1/64 inch is equivalent to .015 approximately, and at 1/32 inch is equal to approximately .030. Should I be shooting for one or the other,(Tooth Length) or is this borderline OCD for firewood cutting? Is there such a thing as maximum deviation, if that is the term and what would that be?

In any event, I think I will just touch up the damaged ones for future use and then reset everything to take the minimum off the rest of the chain. I saw some kind of diagram with accompanying text that to me showed the teeth pivoting about on the rivets and riding up and down in the cut in relationship to the flat plane of the bar if I interpreted correctly which brings me to the subject of...

Depth gauges/rakers.

Oh dear Lord!

I just recently 'discovered' the concept of 'progressive raker filing' and wish that I had never stumbled across the concept! One gentleman was even using an angle gauge from Harbor freight to achieve 6° which seems a little excessive (labor wise) even to me. I believe it was this site where I stumbled across an obviously skilled machinist who made his own depth a grinder replete with a profiled wheel. Sweet.

Stihl says something to the effect of "follow the service mark angle but don't lower the top" which makes no sense to me. I like the idea of a straight edge and a feeler gauge, but as noted in at least one other post, the Max chain holder is on a radius and not flat.

My thought was: use an old bar to hold the chain. Use a straight edge and feeler gauges to determine the average difference and determine how much I have to take off to achieve the factory recommended .026. I would imagine that I could then mount chain in the grinder, just 'kiss' the top of the 'tallest' depth gauge, first with the machine off and then on to check actual contact under power. Use a feeler gauge under the wheel height adjustment screw to take off what is needed, lock the will height adjustment screw and remove the feeler gauge. Grind one side and then the other. Does this seem to make sense?

As far as the profile there are myriad opinions/techniques on that as well. I may talk to the machinist down the hollow to see how to dress the wheel to maintain the OEM profile. Additionally, the pictures on the Stihl website seem to show a flat on the very top. Guess I will have to check a new chain and try to copy that.

I have been trying to quit rubbing snuff intermittently since like forever. If I would quit for a month I could afford one of those fancy wheels. two months and I could get both common sizes.

thanks for the feedback.

"File the top of the depth gauge parallel to the service mark – but do not lower the highest point of the depth gauge in this process."

YellowHammer · January 22, 2020, 08:00:18 AM

The best way for me to answer your questions is to simply suggest you get the new Stihl 2 in 1 saw filing jig. It has a standard round file and also a flat file and will drop the rakers as it sharpens the teeth, at the same time. Once you've used the jig on a few chains, you'll see how everything should look and then you know if you are doing it right using any other technique. Of course, once you use the jig on a few chains you'll keep using it because it does such good job.

How to sharpen your chainsaw using STIHL 2-in-1 guide system - YouTube

lxskllr · January 22, 2020, 03:08:21 PM

The suggestion above is a good one. If you want a gauge only, you can get one online, or in a local shop; even a big box store. A progressive gauge will be more accurate, but a regular gauge will be easier to use. I'd suggest a regular gauge. You just lay it on top of the teeth, and remove any raker that come up through the slot on the gauge. I think you're supposed to file with the gauge in place, but I remove/replace it so I don't file the gauge. File the top flat, then round over the leading edge so the raker eases into the cut.

JohnW · January 23, 2020, 05:12:52 PM

If you do have any interest in hand filing rakers, depth gauge tools are a little clumsy till you get the hang of them. Do file the right hand rakers pushing the file to the right, and the left hand rakers pushing the file to the left, in order to avoid chatter. They sell little flat files for rakers but I think regular size files are easier and faster. I do file with the gauge tool in place, and the steel seems to be hard enough to avoid accidental damage from the file. You might prefer to get the gauge tool out of your way when you're filing, which is fine, you'll soon see about how much to take off.

Pine Ridge · January 23, 2020, 06:50:50 PM

Unless you really bear down on it with too much pressure you will get alot of use out of the husqvarna depth guages before they start to wear, as they were meant to be used as a guage. As inexpensive as they are i wouldn't worry about wearing one out. The drags are much softer metal than the guage, light pressure and file them flat, round off the leading edge of the drag if you want, but you don't have to.

Escavader · January 23, 2020, 07:05:37 PM

I grind with max grinder and have an old bar i use to do my rakers.i use a 4 inch makita grinder very carefully.i have good success.

JohnW · January 23, 2020, 09:16:37 PM

Great Escavadar. Do you grind with the gauge tool in place, and with the grinder wheel vertical?

retiredmechanic · February 03, 2020, 12:11:58 PM

this is just for laughs although it is true for me ... This is how I sharpen a chain I grab my round file in one hand and brush one side of chain then flip saw around and brush the other side then I put my finger on the raker feel the height and if it feels I cant get a grab high enough on the side of my finger I hit that raker with my pocket flat file and I only hit the high ones which generally I only have 4 - 5 on every sharpen job to do but if I cant feel the tip on my finger I look for damage if I feel too much point as if it's grabbing my finger i check for damage
Most times I get a chain sharpened in about 10 min start to finish including tension adjustment but the key is do it often and not let it get dull, when I say brush that means just knocking off the chips or touching it up cause once it starts to get dull it then rapidly gets worse and then wears the rakers out

I touch it up at the end of every job or end of day before putting away

doc henderson · February 03, 2020, 12:43:52 PM

I rarely mess with the depth of the rakers. if you do not damage the chain, and therefore only have to touch the cutting edges of the chisels, the drop in height is minimal and prob. close to the natural wear on the raker. if you get a chain that when sharp does not want to pull itself into the cut with min. pressure, that is when I check the rakers. if too high and blocking that bite it will slow the cut and frustrate the operator. do not over do it. and I can tell you it is poss. to over do it and have a grabby chain. I check with a gauge if I have a chain not wanting to cut, or if I had a lot of grinding to fix a damaged chain. then I have a wheel for my sharpener, with a flat side angled to match the 30° slant that I sharpen at. Now I can set the depth to grind the rakers off to. think of the rakers as adjusting the aggressiveness of the chain.

Pine Ridge · February 03, 2020, 03:21:53 PM

A man that i worked for in the late 80's and early 90's was as good a hand at sharpening a chain freehand as i've ever saw. When he would buy a new saw the first thing he would do is remove the felling spikes and throw them away. He had a raker guide i assume he had made himself, it would take them down more than the factory guides that were available then, and then he would give the chain a good sharpening. His chains the way he had them setup were very fast, and the saw did ALL the work like it's supposed to. The reason he took the felling spikes off is because it would dog the engine and stall the chain if you put any pressure on it. 181 husqvarna was what he was running the first time he showed me his setup, very impressive to me still to this day, he was very good at what he did.

Tom King · February 03, 2020, 05:41:17 PM

That was a man that cut with a "light hand". I understand his thinking.

Escavader · February 03, 2020, 06:03:04 PM

Too much raker equals slower cutting sawdust instead of normal chips.
Too little raker saw binds alot ,high vibration
After reading this thread i made a radius wheel for rakers on my old harbor frieght grinder it worked sweet.i was using my makita angle g rinder verticle guessing at it 😊

Pine Ridge · February 03, 2020, 08:02:59 PM

Quote from: Tom King on February 03, 2020, 05:41:17 PM
That was a man that cut with a "light hand". I understand his thinking.

You are correct. His chains always threw big chips, and he worked the saw the saw didn't work him. I can and do sharpen freehand, but i couldn't to this day hold a candle to him sharpening a chain. I would run his saw some from time to time, and it cut pretty darn smooth, and my my did it self feed through the wood. He had his sharpening figured out.

ehp · February 04, 2020, 10:27:17 PM

we never had spikes on any of our saws when I started and I cut for a lot of years with no spikes , now I just run saws with 1 small spike . Depth rackers height has to do with what wood your cutting , time of year as in if wood is frozen or not and the more you file your cutting tooth back the more you have to increase the depth gauge of the racker , if your chain is brandnew and your racker is at .030 you will need to increase that number as the chain is filed back so that number can be .035 or whatever you like . the tooth of a chain does not sit flat on your bar as it cuts wood . Im sure somewhere on youtube Oregon or stihl has a video of what a tooth does once it starts cutting wood

Ianab · February 04, 2020, 11:02:55 PM

Quote from: ehp on February 04, 2020, 10:27:17 PMIm sure somewhere on youtube Oregon or stihl has a video of what a tooth does once it starts cutting wood

Yes, I remember seeing it. When is chain is cutting normally each cutter actually rocks back and forward slightly. The cutter digs in to take a chip, and how much it digs in is controlled by the raker, which is why it's also called a depth gauge. The cutter then exists the wood as the next link pivots in. If the raker is too high, the cutter barely digs it at all, you merely make dust, and get very frustrated. If the cutter is taken down too low, the cutter digs in too deep, and you get rough cutting, bogging down and also frustration.

The "right number" for the raker depth depends on the saw, bar length, type of wood etc. With a powerful saw and soft wood it will probably work better with the rakers slightly lower. The factory depth is a good average that will work at least "OK" in pretty much any situation. Doesn't mean it's perfect for every scenario.

retiredmechanic · February 05, 2020, 05:57:58 PM

Just to add my 2 pennies to the chat if you have a limb saw only ( less than 50cc ) don't try to get aggressive with low rakers this is where your engine can't handle it and either bogs or grabs with heavy vibration as a result but if your above 65 cc an aggressive chain is easier to handle and does make the job easier now with that stated I would never just grab a new chain and start filing on it until I have a chance to evaluate it first. after seeing what it does and how it feels then i would decide how aggressive to make it and on another point always make sure that whatever you do to the left do it on the right keep it equal at all times

zinc oxide · February 11, 2020, 08:53:42 AM

Good morning and thanks for all the advice, both in this thread and all that I have read.

Now I am a poet?

"Nothing new under the sun" springs to mind, upon further reading here and abroad. All of my 'original' ideas (feeler gauge under depth stop on grinder for instance) have all been stated multiple times in multiple places even before I had the need/interest to sharpen my own chains.

One of the last REAL hardware stores in the area, (M and M true value hardware in Steubenville Ohio) actually had the Husqvarna depth gauges suggested in multiple threads. As I barely felt confident with the actual tooth sharpening, I was leery to attempt depth gauge grinding with the machine... And too lazy to change the wheel. Really just scared to death and unsure of what I was doing to begin with. Seems like the older I get, the more fear of the unknown...

Need to learn to slow down and read more carefully/thoroughly in my zeal to becoming an 'expert'... for free. I clearly must have read "hit the reply button at the top or bottom of the thread" (I may be paraphrasing) in the 'HELP' tab but it clearly didn't register in my mind... Hence two separate threads I inadvertently started.

Could be a good thing, I'm very happy with the perceived quality of the Maxx grinder but I have myriad questions/observations... Which I expect to be promptly answered by the obviously talented readership... For free.

I hope the preceding statement is perceived as my feeble attempt at humor, I can't help but wonder at the state of the world when there are obviously many, many selfless individuals who give so freely of their time and knowledge with no recognition or compensation in multiple fields across the vastness of the Internet, but I digress as they say... I guess it boils down to a question of percentages.

For the depth gauges, filing from inside to out, if I interpreted correctly, for both sides. My old bar has no 'dead flat' areas, so I sharpied 2 reference marks for consistency. I had a 6 inch bastard With no teeth on the sides which I ended up using because I couldn't find a finer cut locally in that size. Felt kind of coarse but I was committed at that point... Mentally,

So I sharpened six chains... The one that 'found' the barbed wire being the first victim of my depth gauge adjustment technique. As it turns out, only two of the teeth were actually visibly damaged so I sharpened these two first as little as possible to get a clean face.
It was at this point that I 'discovered' a left/right variation in the machine but I'll save that for the proper place...

Took a minute to get the 'feel' of placing/holding the gauge consistently, but quick and straightforward overall. Anyone that knows me will laughingly tell you that I have a tendency to 'overcomplicate things...But you too know that by now.

Although the neighbors' already love me, It was well past dark when I tried it out. Holy Cow! The saw basically fell through the cut! Blue Spruce, 17". Ribbons, not dust or chips. nice flat cut. so I did all the rakers on the other 5 chains, whistling',dancing', fool of myself.

While busy rubbing homemade comfrey salve on my sore shoulder (From patting myself on the back after achieving 'EXPERT' status) the next morning, it dawned on me...In my haste, I had used the 'softwood' setting...on all the freshly sharpened chains...The saga continues.

lxskllr · February 11, 2020, 09:32:52 AM

I wouldn't sweat the hard vs soft setting, but you should be aware of it when cutting hardwood. The chain may be a little chattery, and it'll be more likely to kickback. For general advice, I'd err on the side of keeping the rakers higher, at least until you're familiar with how the saw performs. If the saw feels rough, it isn't right AFAIC. It's harder on the machine, and harder on you.