The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Forestry and Logging => Topic started by: Firewoodjoe on April 13, 2022, 01:38:12 PM

Title: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on April 13, 2022, 01:38:12 PM
Well might as well start a topic on it. Verbally the deal is done. Where would the serial number be?  I see no plate anywhere. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: leeroyjd on April 13, 2022, 04:46:33 PM
Stamped on the top edge of frame below slew/swing cylinders on passenger side. You may have to clean it but you'll find it.
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on April 15, 2022, 06:43:24 PM
Your right. Found it. Thanks. Well itís all mine. Iíll be happier when itís hauled.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34659/9D899318-605F-422F-84C1-CEE4ED1DDACD.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1650062478)
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on April 15, 2022, 06:53:38 PM
The manual says it has a high and low but doesnít show any buttons for it. It has the three speed power shift. Does it have a two speed gear box? 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: leeroyjd on April 15, 2022, 07:42:15 PM
Yes it should.
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: leeroyjd on April 15, 2022, 07:43:59 PM
Looks nice compared to a lot of that vintage.
Did tracks come with it?
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: leeroyjd on April 15, 2022, 07:46:52 PM
Of all the switches only two have a safety so you don't accidentally hit them: the float and the two speed. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on April 15, 2022, 07:48:49 PM
I didnít want to pay what he wanted for the tracks. So no. And where is the switch for the two speed? Itís a 2000. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: leeroyjd on April 15, 2022, 08:11:31 PM
Joe it should be one of two switches that has a "lock" on it.
Our dash or consoles are probably different, mine being a '97.
 I think my two speed switch is middle row furthest left facing back of machine as if you are loading. I've only used high twice.
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on April 15, 2022, 08:23:40 PM
Ok. Thanks. Thereís going to be a lot I have to check out I can already see. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on April 15, 2022, 08:47:02 PM
I plan on hauling it straight to the job. Iíll go over it the best I can. If theres anything you guys highly recommend I do or check Iím all ears. The only thing thatís new to me are these bogies. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Gary_C on April 15, 2022, 11:12:30 PM
You should get familiar with those guys at Rolland Machinery in Escanaba (906-786-6920) as they are the best resource for parts and service. If you want, give them your serial number and they always used to be able to get together all the manuals including parts and operators manuals for your specific machine. They do charge too much for them but you should be able to get ones specific to your exact model and build. Most all of those black painted 600 series machines were assembled in the old Gafner factory in Gladstone which Valmet bought and then Komatsu bought Valmet.

Two things I would warn you about. The first thing is that dang float position. Always make sure your grapple is in a good place when driving. I can't tell you how many times I had the grapple fall of the load and clean off all the hoses. I had a 644 single bunk made all the worse because it was levers and not joysticks plus a manual transmission.

The second thing is to never drive with the boom setting on the front bunk with the boom sticking way up. I caught a limb once that was very high up and bent the rod on the top cylinder.

I believe the engine in those was the 4BT3.9C Cummings which was a good economical engine. It only ran out of power when driving down the road in high range. I had plenty of power for loader operations.

They were a good solid forwarder and yours looks to be in good shape. I would really recommend a set of bogie tracks for that machine as the added weight adds stability to that fairly light double bunk as well as flotation plus traction on soft ground.
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on April 25, 2022, 06:27:03 PM
Well I finally got a low bed to get it moved. I played with it for awhile waiting and I couldnít find anyway to set the parking brake. Any help would be appreciated. Two speed works good also👍
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on April 25, 2022, 06:31:19 PM
Iím thinking itís only automatically applied when in neutral. But it doesnít stop. Or at least the one time I rolled it backwards. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: barbender on April 25, 2022, 08:12:06 PM
They may need adjusted.
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: snowstorm on April 26, 2022, 06:15:30 AM
parking comes on when shifted to neutral if it dose not shift lever was not centered a wirring problem or a hose leaking oil on the disc. when right it has a very good parking brake. tip the cab up you will see the brake disc
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on April 26, 2022, 10:28:04 AM
Well when you tip the cab up and you see the brakeÖÖ.. It has no caliper 🤦‍♂️  Iím not real smart but maybe thatís why itís not working lol it has excellent brakes but dad will have to use the blade when loading on hills for now. And he can just hold the foot brake Iíd assume. Sheís on her maiden voyage as I type. Kick the tires welded a bunk stake and greased and send her! 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: barbender on April 26, 2022, 11:10:46 AM
Sorry for my, "yeah no kidding" deserving response😁 I was thinking with the rear bogie set up, they might have the spring apply/hydraulic release parking brake. I've never been around anything but Ponsse forwarders so my experience is limited on the wider world of CTL equipment.
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on May 01, 2022, 07:00:40 AM
Well been ran a full week. Just blew a heater hose so far. Only complaint is the pilot controls. The joy sticks are crazy sensitive. If running the job boom you have to keep it perfectly centered or it will start rotating the bucket. No wiggle room at all. Also the jib boom will lower/drop fast! Like break stuff fast. And the main boom lift you have to pull it way back like almost touching your leg. Iím wondering if it just worn pilot controls. But overall happy with it. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on May 01, 2022, 07:09:08 AM

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34659/0993B5AF-61C6-444C-A073-E08013745E5F.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1651403275)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34659/D5F3CA3B-A326-43DD-A488-926C3BBAD14F.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1651403040)
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: snowstorm on May 01, 2022, 09:11:27 AM
you have my #   stick boom is adjustable its on the top of stick boom square block with a screw. that controls how fast it drops. if the controls leak even a little buy the orings and rebuild its easy. on the stick and bucket rotate how far back are you pulling the joy stick mount?? more than straight across it will act as you describe. if that dose not cure it rebuild joy sticks its cheap if still not right start pulling shuttle valves. shuttle o rings are about the only thing that bothers on these. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on May 01, 2022, 09:29:43 AM
you have my #   stick boom is adjustable its on the top of stick boom square block with a screw. that controls how fast it drops. if the controls leak even a little buy the orings and rebuild its easy. on the stick and bucket rotate how far back are you pulling the joy stick mount?? more than straight across it will act as you describe. if that dose not cure it rebuild joy sticks its cheap if still not right start pulling shuttle valves. shuttle o rings are about the only thing that bothers on these.
I seen that. Thank you very much. I hate to call someone on my problems. But I may someday lol And at least on here you can look on your own time and maybe it will help someone else in the future. Iíll look into the screw adjustment Monday. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: snowstorm on May 01, 2022, 09:42:13 AM
but i hate to type
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on May 01, 2022, 10:12:59 AM
😆 ok. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on June 29, 2022, 05:23:28 PM
Well my boggie bearings are showing small signs of wear. Im thinking now of just rebuilding it all while the weather is nice. I have the parts manual but it is not very detailed. Was just looking for any insight on these machines. They donít appear to be the same as the newer forwarder with the large bearing. These have two smaller tapered wheel bearings that run in oil. Or at least thatís what my book shows. Just curious whatís out there thanks. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: nativewolf on June 29, 2022, 10:08:36 PM
curious as to how this goes, please keep us updated.
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on July 01, 2022, 06:46:45 AM
I was hoping someone would have the parts numbers so I didnít have to order through the dealer. Itís usually almost half price if I can order from a bearing supplier. But Iím waiting on a phone call. Just order it all I guess 🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on July 07, 2022, 07:37:23 PM
Bearings and seals are over $8,000. Ouch. Thatís also the two inside bearings. Iím getting just the seals and see what I can do after itís apart. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: chevytaHOE5674 on July 08, 2022, 08:20:01 PM
If you can afford the downtime tear it apart and get numbers/dimensions off the bearings/seals and shop around. 

Just last week I priced wheel bearings, axle bearings and all the seals for the front of a New Holland tractor. 4k bucks from the dealer. Customer didn't need it asap so I tore it apart got bearing numbers off everything. Ordered Timken bearings and National Seals from an online supplier for under 1k bucks shipped to the shop in 2 days. Well worth the time shopping around.
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on July 08, 2022, 09:18:54 PM
If you can afford the downtime tear it apart and get numbers/dimensions off the bearings/seals and shop around.

Just last week I priced wheel bearings, axle bearings and all the seals for the front of a New Holland tractor. 4k bucks from the dealer. Customer didn't need it asap so I tore it apart got bearing numbers off everything. Ordered Timken bearings and National Seals from an online supplier for under 1k bucks shipped to the shop in 2 days. Well worth the time shopping around.
Thatís the plan. To many times now Iíve found the markup on this stuff is out of control. It looks like it has 5 shims according to my parts book. Iíd like to get my own eye on it anyways and maybe it can just have new seals and preload reset. Iíll just run harvester and have the forwarder down over a long ďweekendĒ I hope. I told myself to stay away from bogies for this reason but the double bunk and even the bogies are growing on me for many reasons. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on July 08, 2022, 09:43:25 PM
I have the itch for new equipment but the money just isnít there. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: chevytaHOE5674 on July 08, 2022, 11:00:13 PM
As much as I'd like some new/newer farm equipment and in my case the money is there I feel now is not the time to upgrade unless absolutely necessary. So ill sit on my money and see what the next year or two brings. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on July 09, 2022, 06:37:29 AM
As much as I'd like some new/newer farm equipment and in my case the money is there I feel now is not the time to upgrade unless absolutely necessary. So ill sit on my money and see what the next year or two brings.
Well I donít have a million for a new set up. 😂 but what I mostly mean by the money isnít there is Iíd have to cut an additional 14-15 loads per month just to cover the payments. Of which would be possible but then thereís no gain anyways. Even with down time and parts I donít spend no where near what these guys do per month with new iron. Then the first year or so there may be no down time but it will come and will still have that payment. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on July 21, 2022, 09:41:39 PM
What a day. Finished another quick load of logs and pulled the bogie axle out. Headed home and tore it apart. Easy getting out of machine. 1 1/2 hours I was on the road with it. Tearing it down wasnít so easy. Heavy parts for one man to do alone. But I got it. Will need some bearings. Never seen a ďplainĒ bearing like this.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34659/3FF478E2-990C-4B3E-B630-B1F1CFDE5E61.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1658453402)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34659/B5D3B5AE-6296-4508-8717-D31F772BE091.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1658453470)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34659/038F6646-53AC-41EC-8D56-617E2CF78467.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1658453527)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34659/2DDE3F28-4F7C-47E0-A10A-C43F0CF33859.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1658453609)
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: BargeMonkey on July 21, 2022, 10:07:14 PM
How do you know when a bogie is going bad or what are you routinely checking ? 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on July 21, 2022, 10:14:17 PM
First sign is wet. The new ones have grease so itís not as easy. But you should jack them up and check for movement. If you run it to long stuff gets real expensive real fast. This one is a lot different. It runs in oil. Oil in the center diff, oil in the axle tube (which is what Is in my pic that holds the bearings) and oil in the bogie frame/walking beam whatever you want to call it. All three are sealed and oiled separate. Kinda dumb I think. But these bearings appear to me much cheaper than the new style. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on July 25, 2022, 09:08:00 PM
Well I think the classic bogie bearing monster bite me. So much for a cheap forwarder. I have one more try tomorrow otherwise two bearings are going to be about $6k plus shipping. Which is still cheaper than say a Deere 1010 but I think that style of bearing is much better built. 
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: barbender on July 25, 2022, 09:27:49 PM
I've heard of the bearings for Ponsse bogies being $15K, and that's been a few years ago.
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: chevytaHOE5674 on July 25, 2022, 09:32:58 PM
I did the boggie pivot bearings in a Ponsse Buffalo and the parts were around 10k. They also had 32k hours on them.

Years ago when we had to do them in the Ergo I was running they were some oddball parts and crazy expensive, then the ring and pinion blew so it was cheaper to source a newer axle/boggie assembly with the "cheaper" parts.
Title: Re: 646 valmet
Post by: Firewoodjoe on August 01, 2022, 03:54:22 PM
Sheís back to skidding wood. Nothing $8k in parts canít fix lol better work now, I just cut all last week.