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Author Topic: Kiln drying and storing  (Read 1253 times)

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Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2020, 07:36:03 AM »
Here is a question...will wood shrink if put into boiling water and kept submerged?  Answer:  yes, as the FSP of wood drops to around 22% MC.  Interesting as the amount of liquid water in the hollow pores of the wood changes very little, but the water in the walls, bound water, changes and results in shrinkage.

Here is another..Does the water in the walls when the wood is under FSP, let's say 10% MC, freeze when the wood is at 0 F?  Answer: No.  we think of water as being solid, liquid or gas, but when absorbed by the wood cells and connected by hydrogen bonding, the water is not solid, liquid or gas, but is held in what we might call a molecular form and so is not solid, liquid or gas.

Confused?  A nice egg nog or similar will allow you to forget about this and not worry.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline doc henderson

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2020, 09:58:06 AM »
thanks! and Happy Holidays Doc!  @GeneWengert-WoodDoc 
:new_year:
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Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2020, 02:09:26 PM »
So it seems that with all the technical information that if your kiln drying wood and storing it in a non climate controlled environment and it sits there for any length of time that you are wasting your time. And if your selling kiln dried wood from that example it really isnt 

Offline doc henderson

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2020, 05:00:55 PM »
you gain a bit if it is sterilized and the pitch is set, and sounds like with hysteresis, it might stay 1% under EMC.  but you can dead stack it dry and wrap tight with plastic and preserve the MC at 7% say, but hard to show the wood.  would work ok if you sell a whole bundle, and not too hard to repackage.  
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2020, 11:13:17 PM »
Wetting wood after drying sometimes can cause marginal movement, sometimes its very bad.

The worst case is when we have people buy our kiln dried wood on a rainy day and want to load it in their open bed pick truck, and drive back home, in the rain.  We won't "let" them and give them plastic sheets to wrap their wood in.

Some folks are surprised that water will damage or even affect kiln dried wood.  So I throw a Yellowhammerism at them "If you take a sheet of paper and get it wet, it will swell and wrinkle.  When it dries out, it will stay wrinkled.  What's paper made from?  Wood.  What do you think your wood will do if you get it wet?  The same thing.  It'll dry, but it won't ever be flat again."  
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Take steps to save steps.

If it wont roll, its not a log; its still a piece of tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not pieces of trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyre burned, and you cant fix them.  Dont burn the cookies.

Offline WDH

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2020, 07:46:05 AM »
That last sentence is the crux of the matter to me.  The science of what happens is one thing, but on a practical level, if that board only gains 4 or 5% going from kiln dried to air dried or back again, and if that straight, flat board moves just a bit in the process such that that (Tom) straight and flat board now is bowed or cupped or warped just a bit, well, the damage is done on the woodworking level.
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Offline btulloh

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2020, 08:12:23 AM »
Proper storage for dried lumber is just another thing you need when you start down this road. Ive got the same problem with not having a good place to store my finished lumber. I see another building in my future. 

Happy birthday, Danny!

Offline K-Guy

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2020, 08:22:21 AM »


If you don't have good storage, you are left with drying to order. Not as cost effective but still an option.

Happy Birthday Danny!!  smiley_dizzy smiley_blue_bounce

ps Are you as old as Jake now?  ;D
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Offline WDH

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2020, 08:35:11 AM »
By quite a margin.  He is just a young Whippersnapper. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2020, 12:51:52 PM »
Well, happy birthday Danny.  I'll admit that I never noticed the cake before.
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Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2020, 03:15:21 PM »
I hope your having a good day WDH. Birthday boy  🎂 

Offline scsmith42

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2020, 05:18:10 PM »
So it seems that with all the technical information that if your kiln drying wood and storing it in a non climate controlled environment and it sits there for any length of time that you are wasting your time. And if your selling kiln dried wood from that example it really isnt
I don't look at it that way.  Even if it has regained moisture the wood has been kiln dried and sterilized (by most kiln operators). The customer can store it in a humidity controlled area and it will drop back down and still be sterile.
Air dried hardwood - at least in my area - is very likely to have lyctid powder post beetles in it unless it's been sterilized.  So proper kiln drying is a plus IMO, even if the wood has regained moisture.
This is predicated on the wood being stored in a sterile environment.
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Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2020, 08:45:27 AM »
Just to be clear for those that are new to this kiln drying stuff, wood in the kiln can be sterilized ( which means all insects, larva, eggs, and fungi) when the wood temperature is over 133 F. However, once the wood is removed from the kiln, it is subject to attack by the lyctid powderpost beetle.  Further, if the wood is wetted, fungi can return.  In other words, sterilization only sterilizes the wood for the moment.

Although the lyctid PPB only likes very dry wood, there are other PPB, like the ambrosia beetle, that like wetter wood such as in air drying.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline DPatton

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2020, 06:27:04 PM »


If you don't have good storage, you are left with drying to order. Not as cost effective but still an option.

I hear ya knocking K-guy. I already offer drying to order buy utilizing another sawmills kilns, but almost no one is willing to wait 7-14 weeks for drying. So I either need have kiln dried stock or limit my sales to air dried products only. 
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Offline Don P

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2020, 08:59:50 PM »
If you can't do full climate control it usually only takes a few degrees of heating above ambient to drive the rh in a building down enough to keep the wood reasonably dry. Alas, I do not even have that building.
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Offline farmfromkansas

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Re: Kiln drying and storing
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2021, 10:08:30 AM »
When I was young doing carpenter work, would pick up lumber at yard, take it to the job and install the stuff. Sometimes after a month the job would look like some amateur did it, but I took my time to make joints fit.  Just depended on how dry the lumber was. Lumberyard just had a building with no heat to store the boards in, they called their wood kiln dried, my theory was that they walked the wood through the kiln on the way to their truck.  Now I have a shop with a storeroom for lumber, makes a huge difference if you take the lumber from your dryer directly to the shop.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work


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