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Author Topic: tankless water heater??  (Read 4856 times)

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Online breederman

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tankless water heater??
« on: January 20, 2007, 05:14:53 PM »
  The repair man just left and basicly said that he would spend the money and replace our 20 yeqr old forced vent water heater, rather than fixing the old one. :( :(
  Sooo my question is ,does anyone have a new tankless heater and are you happy with it?  How noisy is it, and will it make enough constant hot water for momma's shower?
 
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Offline Furby

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2007, 05:41:01 PM »
Don't have one, but get a bigger unit and you shouls be ok.
Some are rated to run up to four items at the same time, meaning 2 showers, washing machine and dishwasher or something like that.


Offline Daren

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2007, 05:46:35 PM »
The right one will make endless hot water. I have replaced more than one though with the old style tank type. They were mounted on the basement wall and had a real short flue. When it got real cold and windy, the cold air came back down the flue and busted the things wide open. The small amount of water in the unit is cold until it senses flow, then the burner kicks on and heats the water that passes through the coils. I have installed many big gas ones and many more small "point of use" electric. I was a plumber for 15 years (guess I still am, just don't do it anymore)

Why do you have a forced vent water heater right now? Is the short flue deal like I mentioned going to affect you ?

For my money, I still will replace my 30 year old talk type with another just like it.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Offline Furby

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2007, 05:48:35 PM »
Never heard of that before Daren, is there anything on the market to help with that problem?

Offline maple flats

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2007, 05:52:16 PM »
I bought one for our new house but it is still in the box. Likely won't be used til 2009. I got it early because I got a real deal on it from a friend who was going to install it but then moved and sold their house.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Offline metalspinner

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2007, 05:59:51 PM »
We were wanting one of these as well.  The government/utility company has/had a rebate or some other type of incentive for those that bought one.  I need to check up on that again.

I heard somewhere that heating hot water in the tank was the most expensive part of your utility bill.  Does anyone know if that is correct?
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Offline pineywoods

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2007, 06:01:58 PM »
Don't have one myself, but just installed one for a friend. Before you make the change, be aware of some hidden gotcha's. You probably can't just remove the old heater and hook up a new tankless one in it's place. True they consume no gas (or electricity) until there is a demand for hot water. But when they do turn on, they need massive amonts of power for as long as the water flows. For gas-fired units you will probably have to run a larger gas line. Electric heaters will almost certainly require running much heavier wire back to the service box, they need 50 amps or more.
Once installed, they do seem to work okay, but if you use a lot of hot water (ie teen-agers in the house), the savings aren't that great, may not offset the higher initial  cost.
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Offline Blue Duck

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2007, 06:35:39 PM »
I'm a building inspector in NC. I've inspected quite a few and one of the inspectors in our office put one in his new house about 3 years ago.  He loves it.  Very efficent.  He figures he saves $20-30 a month with it but it's expensive up front.  His is a Rheem.  Here is a link I found that might help.  http://www.tanklesswater.com/
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Offline JimBuis

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2007, 06:43:40 PM »
The tankless type is exclusively what we use in Japan.  I haven't installed any, but have used them for about ten years now.  My apartment has one in it right now.  As has already been mentioned, it makes an endless supply of hot water.  As far as I can tell, it will heat water as fast as the water can go through it.  Some observations:  the hot water does not get to the tap any faster, if the heater is sitting in the same place as the old tank type it replaced you will wait just as long for the pipes to get heated up and for that water to get to the showerhead, the heater makes no more noise than a tank type heater, and it is much smaller in size as there is no tank.

I am one of those guys who loves a nice, long shower.  I often shower for 20 minutes or longer just because I enjoy it.  I never run out of hot water.  I doubt that a tankless type heater in America will offer this, but here in Japan the heater has a remote temperature control on the wall in the kitchen.  If I want scalding hot water for doing dishes or for a cup of hot chocolate, all I have to do is bump the temperature up some and the heater will make it as hot as I want up to its temperature limit.

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Offline Daren

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2007, 06:45:06 PM »
Never heard of that before Daren, is there anything on the market to help with that problem?

They were just improperly installed, too short a flue run. That was just a tip for breederman

I bought one for our new house but it is still in the box. Likely won't be used til 2009. I got it early because I got a real deal on it from a friend who was going to install it but then moved and sold their house.

Well there goes 2 years of your warranty  :D

I am with pineyswoods, they can save money in the right situation, but the initial cost takes awhile to get back. My old tank type rarely kicks on to maintain the temp. A btu is a btu, the water you are using still takes the same gas/electric to do the job.

Overall I am in favor of less parts (less parts to go wrong) the old standing pilot, direct vent water heater MAY need a $10 thermocouple in their lifetime. I have done $300+ repairs on the more complicated (power vent, electronic ignition...) WH . I can buy a brand new "tried and true" simple one for that. I have replaced 35 year old tank type water heater... and seen the guts of some of the ones we are talking about, I would not bet on them lasting that long around here. Just my opinion.

As far as money savings like GRTC is talking, maybe so for his case. But in the summer my gas bill (gas water heater, gas clothes dryer, gas range... is only $50), of course the winter it is higher, gas furnace
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Offline jbeat

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2007, 06:48:30 PM »
Ask, would Paul Harvey lead me wrong? Now check out the RINNAI web site for more info. than you will care to read about the benefits of a tankless heater.
John B

Online breederman

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2007, 06:51:54 PM »
Our current one is forced vent thtough the wood foundation  wall becouse of no good place for the chimney.  With the tax credit and Terrys discount from work it looks lik a mid priced tankless would be close to the same cost as a forced vent.  I don't think we would save a lot of gas as only the two of us and the water is pre heated in the winter with the wood furnace, some times the pre heater is hot enough by itself.
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Offline logwalker

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2007, 08:38:04 PM »
I use two Takagi 150,000 btu units as back up boilers for 6000sf house and shop. They came highly recommended and were about $550 each. Made in Japan. I have heard lots of problems with the Bosch/Aquastar line. Most are guaranteed for 10 years in a residential setting. Joe
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Offline wesdor

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2007, 08:42:58 PM »
We installed one about a month ago.  It cost nearly as much for the stainless steel pipe and connections as the heater.  My wife read in the past few days that it should save a family of four $20 / month on their water heating bills.  We are hoping that it saves the two of us even more.

Although these are rather new in the United States, I believe they are the only option in most of the other first world countries.  It does take about 30 seconds to get the hot water into the shower, but after that, you could stand in the shower all day and the hot water would never run out.  (That could be a bad thing.  I remember when our 3 kids were teenagers and all taking showers in the morning.  If you were last in line you couldn't expect a long hot shower).  Ours has a digital setting on the unit and we have chosen to have the water be heated to 120.  Not sure how high it can go, but it would be quite easy to change it.

Of course we are pretty happy with the new heater, but we have wanted one for quite some time and just decided this was the best time.  So perhaps my opinions are biased in favor.




Offline Furby

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2007, 08:47:56 PM »
A couple years ago I replaced the furnace, hot water heater, and stove/oven. All of the old ones had a standing pilot.
None of the new ones do and my gas bill for the non heating season has dropped by around 65% based on the same type of use before and after the switch. My dryer has always been an electric ignition.
I can go 24 hours at a time without using hot water.
No point in keeping the water hot all that time if it will take to same amount of BTU's to heat it either way.
I have a forced vent heater now and I can hear it kick on so I do know how offten it is burning gas to keep that temp up.

I think the main key is to size the unit to the planned use.

Offline Kcwoodbutcher

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2007, 08:51:21 PM »
I installed a 14 KW electric one about two years ago. It looks like it saves me about $25 a month over the electric tank heater I had.
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Offline hiya

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2007, 09:20:18 PM »
Back about 18 years ago I put a timer on our tank type water heater. It made a big
difference in our electric bill. Paid for the timer in less than 2 mounth. It turns on at 5;00am and off at 9:00 am, then on again at 4:30 pm, off at 9:oo pm. If we change our schudel (sp?) it has a button to turn it on. With not as many people in the house I'm going to shorted the time "on".
Just my 1 1/2 cents worth.
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Offline snowman

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2007, 07:52:44 AM »
If you heat with wood you may want to consider plumbing your stove. A simple loop of pipe run inside your stove then through an old water heater works great, it cycles by itself through convection.You will have more hot water than you know what to do with all winter. In cold spells mine gets so hot it blows the pressure relief valve twice a day which i have plumbed into the horses water, so that stays full and thawed too.And as I say in lots of my post, IT'S FREE!, Yes i'm a cheap SOB. ;D

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2007, 08:03:51 AM »
 For a tank heater, put an extra insulation cover on it. You'll be amazed 
;D  I installed a few of them tankless, back in the 80's-90's. Mostly around wet bars.

  As someone stated, btu's are btu's.  :) :)

  Here's a Wood Furnace version, from a gas water heater tank.


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Re: tankless water heater??
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2007, 08:09:48 AM »
Ask, would Paul Harvey lead me wrong?


Thats what I used to think until he started expounding on his radio show (paraphrasing here) "Quit destroying our forests, build steal buildings" when General Steel became one of his sponsors.  By inferring we are destroying our forests and that will stop if we build with steel instead of wood is just irresponsible, especially for a radio personality of his popularity.
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