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Cutting 1 X 4 cedar boards with one live edge.

Started by oklalogdog, January 13, 2014, 04:28:29 PM

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oklalogdog

Lot's of good ideas fella's.  I will cut a tree from the canyon - bring it up - saw it - debark it - and see how long it takes.  That's the only way I know to really know what I have in it.
Amateurs built the Ark - Professionals built the Titanic

TK 2000, TK 1220, Belsaw M14, John Deere 7610 with loader, Ford 9N.

oklalogdog

"Skint" is definitely in my vocabulary.  Heck - the word "skint" probably originated right around here where I'm from.
Amateurs built the Ark - Professionals built the Titanic

TK 2000, TK 1220, Belsaw M14, John Deere 7610 with loader, Ford 9N.

oklalogdog

Amateurs built the Ark - Professionals built the Titanic

TK 2000, TK 1220, Belsaw M14, John Deere 7610 with loader, Ford 9N.

Peter Drouin

Red oaks that's a good way, I don't buy small logs so I have to turn them and get a live edge from 3 faces.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

backwoods sawyer

Keep in mind the percentage of the log that you can get 1x4 live edge from is about the same as getting true quarter sawn, the rest will be waist or sticker stock.

I was 50 miles from the vet and way after hours when three hounds decided to kill and eat a porky pine, vet arrived at his office right behind me. We each had a pair of pliers still took a couple hours, They were in about the same condition as your dog, One had a quill take a six month exit path giving her fits all the way.  $150 was cheap, hope dog pulls thru ok. 
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Ianab

QuoteKeep in mind the percentage of the log that you can get 1x4 live edge from is about the same as getting true quarter sawn, the rest will be waist or sticker stock.

True, but this works in with my suggestion to go and actually cut a test log. Then he knows both how long it takes, and how much product a log will produce.

Another idea is to find out what the stud spacing on the wall is. Then you can make your boards multiples of that, and reduce the waste. Your "random lengths" can then be multiples of whatever spacing they have with a couple of inches of "trim".

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

LeeB

If you have a decent pressure washer, debark with it before sawing. No sanding needed, only planing one face smooth.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Piston

Quote from: LeeB on January 14, 2014, 01:29:02 AM
If you have a decent pressure washer, debark with it before sawing. No sanding needed, only planing one face smooth.

I was just going to ask about this...

Would it be quicker/easier, and is it effective, to debark it and sand it while in log form?  I'd think debarking and sanding after the fact would get might tedious having to handle all those boards again.   ???
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Cedarman

Saw the day you log.  Pressure wash the edges of the boards.  Should be able to stack 4 to 6 boards at a time.  If you wait the sap will set up and glue the bark to the logs.  If the sap sets up, then a draw knife is quicker.  This is for your live trees.  Your dead ones may peel great.

I would do a couple boards and just debark and a couple boards debarked and sanded.  A flapper sander should work.  Take these boards to the customer and see if you can get by without sanding.  Have a price for both unsanded and sanded.

If we were given the order it would be $.60 linear foot with bark on,$.70 debarked (we would use old logs where bark just about falls off, we keep for these purposes so debarking is very quick).    I would do my best to get out of sanding, but would charge $.85 LF if we had to sand.
We charge $3.00 per mile to deliver.
I never barter, but in your case it might be a good deal.
I never worry about doing it for less to get some advertising, but as a percentage of business, local is very small.  You have a different clientele so trying to drum up business may make sense.
I state the above just to give our business model just to give you some more ideas.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

ely

be aware that drumming up business by doing work cheap is not good business at all... you can always drop prices later.... it is very tough to raise prices.

okmulch

There is plenty of cedar trees  that have been cut and laying around drying in Oklahoma. The logs in these trees will debark easily. When I get orders for debarking logs I use these type of logs.
Rotochopper b66 track, #2 Rotochopper b66 track, woodmizer lt40, CAT 277b, CAT 268b, CAT 287c, CAT 277c, CAT299d2, CAT299d3, CAT 299d3, Volvo 70e,volvo70f, volvo90f

oklalogdog

Wow - I really hit the jackpot in here.  Thanks for all the ideas and info.  Gonna read it all over about 20 times.  Really good stuff guys - thanks again.  Oh yeah and Cedarman - can you give me some info on a flapper sander and possibly a link.
Amateurs built the Ark - Professionals built the Titanic

TK 2000, TK 1220, Belsaw M14, John Deere 7610 with loader, Ford 9N.

LeeB

A flap sander is an attachment that goes on your drill, similar to a wire wheel, only with strips of sand paper/emory cloth instead of wire. You can get them at any hardware store.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

oklalogdog

Ely I understand what you're saying about dropping prices and working on the cheap - I really do.  I have been in business for myself for a majority of my adult life, just not this kind of business.  So I know what you're saying.  But, I knew a frame carpenter one time who had his own crew and was very successful but then hard times came along.  He refused to drop his prices and began to lose bids.  He still refused to drop his prices and two years later lost his home.  So, IMO you have to go with what the market in your area will bear.  Finding that point is the hard part.

I found out in my many years of running a family farm and other sideline businesses that anybody can grow a watermelon but not everyone can sell a watermelon.  Marketing is the absolute key and should be done before a seed is even put in the ground.  I think just figuring up my actual costs and adding some in for profit is the way to go.  I owned and operated a structural pipe and steel supply yard at one time and we just went on a straight 30% markup on everything so prices fluctuated up and down.  That would be kinda hard to do on this type of operation though.
Amateurs built the Ark - Professionals built the Titanic

TK 2000, TK 1220, Belsaw M14, John Deere 7610 with loader, Ford 9N.

Qweaver

As I read this I began to think about how I would do this job.  I think I would bark the log before sawing, then saw the log into boards with 2 live edges, then re-saw each board to width.  This would give me boards with parallel sides at the width I want.  12" to 18" logs might reduce the waste.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Cedarman

Qweaver, if the order was for poplar , pine or other species where larger logs are easily obtained, I would tend to agree with you.  Cedar is a different kettle of fish Imho.

12" to 18" logs yield lumber worth twice what you will get from the 4" boards.  We would use 6" and 7" logs.  More sawing yes, but a lot less waste.  You should be able to get 4 boards from a 6" log, 5 from a 7".  I would only peel the edges of the boards.  Peeling is time consuming so peeling just the edges will save a lot.  Also, some logs will not saw good lumber even though the ends look good, we see that once in a while.
We have sawn many thousands of feet of material with live edge.  One was 10,000 feet of fireplace mantles, glad we didn't have to debark those.  But we do sell a lot of live edge 3/4" to 1" for trim and house and shed siding.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

oklalogdog

Inclined to agree with you Cedarman about peeling the boards instead of the logs.  The logs will be dry and once sawed that bark will be knocked loose by the blade.  In many case could probably peel it off by hand.
Amateurs built the Ark - Professionals built the Titanic

TK 2000, TK 1220, Belsaw M14, John Deere 7610 with loader, Ford 9N.

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