big white oak and hickory leaners on a side hill

[CCC4]

An example of the cut I was describing using a Humbolt with a conventional snipe and the heart gutted from the face on a uphill leaner red Oak. This cut works well for uphill or downhill falling of heavy lean timber.



  

  

  

 

And right when I said don't use wedge on timber on a slope...this happens! ! The tree had several sweeps and body mass lean, I picked the wrong one and had to back up with wedges...yeh, I'll eat crow on this one! !



  

 

[John Mc]

I'm having a terminology miss here. "Snipe" is not a term I've heard used around here. Is that what folks around here refer to as the notch?

[CCC4]

No Sir, the face is a Humbolt, the added non meeting add on I put in the log is the snipe. Look at Bitzer's profile pic, his snipe is the additional add on he put in his stump.

[John Mc]

OK. So what is a snipe for?

[Firewoodjoe]

That is a much deeper face cut then I do. I feel you want to be in the edge wood. Sap or summer wood. Not in the "dead" heart wood. It's not a strong hinge and that is your material vs the slab or waste wood where your hinge should be. And on a large tree you need like a 1"-2"  hinge. That hinge should hold till the tree is nearly horizontal. And you should be able to walk back at a 45 degree angle from the fall direction and not have to continue to cut your hinge. My 2 cents.

[RHP Logging]

That is a much deeper face cut then I do. I feel you want to be in the edge wood. Sap or summer wood. Not in the "dead" heart wood. It's not a strong hinge and that is your material vs the slab or waste wood where your hinge should be. And on a large tree you need like a 1"-2"  hinge. That hinge should hold till the tree is nearly horizontal. And you should be able to walk back at a 45 degree angle from the fall direction and not have to continue to cut your hinge. My 2 cents.

  There are many different reasons for different depths, widths, types of face cuts.  Most have to do with how to save out the wood or control the tree.  With hard leaning timber its really only going one way.  Strength of the hinge is not really a factor.  Getting the compression wood cut up before the tension wood is what You're after.  The face can do as much to control a tree as the hinge wood.  Getting the hinge to break early or hang on til the tree is on the ground are for different scenarios with different face styles.  The scratch a face in the sapwood or 30 percent depth of face or maintaining a certain percentage of hingewood need not apply.  Intentionally using dutchmans, exposing fibers of your hinge, snipes, etc are all ways to swing, control, and save out your wood efficiently and safely. 

[RHP Logging]

OK. So what is a snipe for?

Many different things.  If you look at the pic in my avatar i have a narrow humboldt face with a snipe on the stump.  The tree was leaning downhill and i needed the stem free of the stump quickly and the butt on the ground asap in order to save out my last log of the tree. Narrow face closes breaking the hinge, snipe lets butt slip to the ground quickly.

[RHP Logging]

No Sir, the face is a Humbolt, the added non meeting add on I put in the log is the snipe. Look at Bitzer's profile pic, his snipe is the additional add on he put in his stump.

So where was the phone call?!  I didn't have time to bs today anyway.

[RHP Logging]

That is a much deeper face cut then I do. I feel you want to be in the edge wood. Sap or summer wood. Not in the "dead" heart wood. It's not a strong hinge and that is your material vs the slab or waste wood where your hinge should be. And on a large tree you need like a 1"-2"  hinge. That hinge should hold till the tree is nearly horizontal. And you should be able to walk back at a 45 degree angle from the fall direction and not have to continue to cut your hinge. My 2 cents.

  There are many different reasons for different depths, widths, types of face cuts.  Most have to do with how to save out the wood or control the tree.  With hard leaning timber its really only going one way.  Strength of the hinge is not really a factor.  Getting the compression wood cut up before the tension wood is what You're after.  The face can do as much to control a tree as the hinge wood.  Getting the hinge to break early or hang on til the tree is on the ground are for different scenarios with different face styles.  The scratch a face in the sapwood or 30 percent depth of face or maintaining a certain percentage of hingewood need not apply.  Intentionally using dutchmans, exposing fibers of your hinge, snipes, etc are all ways to swing, control, and save out your wood efficiently and safely.

Not sure how i qouted myself here.  Tired i guess.  Disregard.

[sandsawmill14]

That is a much deeper face cut then I do. I feel you want to be in the edge wood. Sap or summer wood. Not in the "dead" heart wood. It's not a strong hinge and that is your material vs the slab or waste wood where your hinge should be. And on a large tree you need like a 1"-2"  hinge. That hinge should hold till the tree is nearly horizontal. And you should be able to walk back at a 45 degree angle from the fall direction and not have to continue to cut your hinge. My 2 cents.

how deep do you cut for the notch ???  i generally go about 1/3 but every tree is different so i decide when i walk up to the tree. i bore cut almost all i cut if over 20" not necessary but it keeps me in practice i havent work in the woods in a few years just milling but i still cut a few every once in a while

[Firewoodjoe]

G

[Firewoodjoe]

This tree was in the 60" range. Bored it from face and both sides. That hinge is close to the edge under 2" and I pulled this over with a 648 skidder (power line) and the hinge held. With no fiber pull and all with a 20" bar on a 372. Tree type and growth are all a factor. White oak hinge will hold stronger then say a black oak. I'm not saying anyone's technique is wrong just my opinion and how we were trained for sfi education. Saftey and quality of timber.

[treeslayer2003]

No Sir, the face is a Humbolt, the added non meeting add on I put in the log is the snipe. Look at Bitzer's profile pic, his snipe is the additional add on he put in his stump.

So where was the phone call?!  I didn't have time to bs today anyway.

hey man! good to see you!

[CCC4]

I use the snipe for an additional stump lock when sending timber uphill. Use the snipe for downhill just to give an additional drop and keep on the stump a little longer.

[Plankton]

Anybody ever use angled snipes to get some roll on the stem? I tried that a while ago but I can't remember what happened. Angled like not directly centered on your gun.

[CCC4]

What length bar are you using Firewood Joe? I can't figure out your cut on that log. I am assuming a GOL? I Dnt understand the square edge on the right side of the log, was it originally faced out on that side? You said your cut was bored from the face, did you mean behind the hinge like GOL?

[chester_tree _farmah]

The problem with any heavy leaner and doing a regular back cut is the tree is going to start to fall well before u get the hinge thin enough. You can't cut fast enough to prevent pulling and even barber chair most times. The only cut I now use for a heavy leaner is a bore cut and leave a small piece of holding wood on the backside. Yup. GOL style. It was actually the wrecking of a beautiful birch veneer log on a heavy leaner that brought me to appreciate this cut so much. Since using it I have cut trees close to horizontal with no issues. Why? You get the hinge the way it should be than when ready snip the holding wood. The tree does not move till your hinge is proper enough to avoid pulling. Safer too.

[CCC4]

Yes, I do that often, it works, the tree will commit to the first face then drift into the next as long as holding wood will behave.

[CCC4]

The above was for Plankton.

[sandsawmill14]

ok guys what is gol style  ??? i have been bore cutting tress since i a kid but i havent heard it called gol ???

[RHP Logging]

This tree was in the 60" range. Bored it from face and both sides. That hinge is close to the edge under 2" and I pulled this over with a 648 skidder (power line) and the hinge held. With no fiber pull and all with a 20" bar on a 372. Tree type and growth are all a factor. White oak hinge will hold stronger then say a black oak. I'm not saying anyone's technique is wrong just my opinion and how we were trained for sfi education. Saftey and quality of timber.

I'm not knocking your style and SFI is great but you have to ask yourself a few questions.  If placing the hinge closer to center would have gotten the tree to tip with wedging instead of pulling?  Why bore cut a tree that is going to have to be wedged/pulled?  Putting the hinge so far forward in the tree does nothing for changing the center of gravity on it.  A stick straight tree won't move with a face that far forward.   By moving the hinge closer to center you are working with gravity instead of against it. On a tree 60" you could easily have put in a 40-50% face and had plenty of room to put wedges in the back and pull if you like.  You are also getting more length across the hinge if holding wood is a concern.  I agree that sap wood holds really well, but the center wood holds too.  Look at your sap wood on that butt.  Maybe a few inches. There is a time and a place for the face so far ahead.  Like when you need to jack a tree and you don't want to put too much pressure on the hinge or in smaller timber that needs to be wedged and you need the room.  Another thing with having the face that far forward is you are relying almost solely on the hinge wood.  A deeper face keeps the tree in lead just as much as the holding wood. There is cutting timber and there is timber falling.  Every tree is different and should be treated differently. Most trees do not need to be bore cut.  Bore cutting takes extra time and puts extra strain on the equipment and cutter.  Unless you are getting paid hourly there are more productive ways to do things.

[RHP Logging]

ok guys what is gol style  ??? i have been bore cutting tress since i a kid but i havent heard it called gol ???

Scratch a face (notch) in,  bore cut everything, and hope for the best.  There is little thought given to individual trees and circumstances.  There is controlling a tree and there is manipulating a tree. GOL teaches control and safety which is great.  Manipulating a tree to get it to lay out how you want is a whole nother ball game.

[RHP Logging]

No Sir, the face is a Humbolt, the added non meeting add on I put in the log is the snipe. Look at Bitzer's profile pic, his snipe is the additional add on he put in his stump.

So where was the phone call?!  I didn't have time to bs today anyway.

hey man! good to see you!

I haven't seen you in the usual places so I started looking!  I'm glad to have found Clint too.

[RHP Logging]

Anybody ever use angled snipes to get some roll on the stem? I tried that a while ago but I can't remember what happened. Angled like not directly centered on your gun.

Yes sir!  Hows the logging biz?

[RHP Logging]

Here is the type of face I use when a tree needs max holding power usually in cases where it needs to be pulled or jacked.  Also if you need the tree to hang on the stump to save it out. I cut hazard trees on the side for the county.  This ash was in a park.  A little over 4ft on the stump. I had a cable on it for pulling, but I couldn't wait for the county guys to show and the face was clean when I opened er up so I jacked it.  I was in a hurry to get to my normal job. They showed up about 6 am scratchin their heads.  Its strictly cut and run when I cut for the county.

I took a pic before the snipe, but not after until I had it down.


What the block face does is it exposes the fibers of the hinge allowing them to flex over before the face closes giving max control.