big white oak and hickory leaners on a side hill

[RHP Logging]

Here is the type of face I use when a tree needs max holding power usually in cases where it needs to be pulled or jacked.  Also if you need the tree to hang on the stump to save it out. I cut hazard trees on the side for the county.  This ash was in a park.  A little over 4ft on the stump. I had a cable on it for pulling, but I couldn't wait for the county guys to show and the face was clean when I opened er up so I jacked it.  I was in a hurry to get to my normal job. They showed up about 6 am scratchin their heads.  Its strictly cut and run when I cut for the county. 

I took a pic before the snipe, but not after until I had it down.


What the block face does is it exposes the fibers of the hinge allowing them to flex over before the face closes giving max control. 

I quoted myself again and don't know how to delete it.  Gotta get used to these controls.

[CCC4]

Nice cutting mang! Slayer uses that cut quite often. I have used it a few times, once down in a steep creek bank falling the tree up and out. I had very limited get away room and wanted to be dang sure she stayed on the stump instaed of coming back to see me! !

[RHP Logging]

Thanks!  Yeah it will keep the stem up the hill alright.  It can be a bitch getting a nice clean block out.  You really don't want to sever the fibers cuz it won't work the same.

[chester_tree _farmah]

We manipulate trees with the cut,  notch,  hinge, wedges etc. All I am saying is using holding wood on a heavy leaner gives u time to do your thing and than release when all is well and your hinge is thin. I have tried  nipping the ends and boring the face without holding wood with varying results. If the tree starts to fall before your hinge is thin enough it will most likely pull, tear and even split with a heavy leaner. I have learned the hard way and it has been a long while since I have had to trim the butt off a saw log to get rid of the pulls or splits. That's the way I do it and will but that is just my opinion. I thought the origimal post question was how to fell side hill keaners without wrecking wood but maybe I miss read it. If so nevermind. Carry on. :)

[RHP Logging]

We manipulate trees with the cut,  notch,  hinge, wedges etc. All I am saying is using holding wood on a heavy leaner gives u time to do your thing and than release when all is well and your hinge is thin. I have tried  nipping the ends and boring the face without holding wood with varying results. If the tree starts to fall before your hinge is thin enough it will most likely pull, tear and even split with a heavy leaner. I have learned the hard way and it has been a long while since I have had to trim the butt off a saw log to get rid of the pulls or splits. That's the way I do it and will but that is just my opinion. I thought the origimal post question was how to fell side hill keaners without wrecking wood but maybe I miss read it. If so nevermind. Carry on.

I'm just not a fan of bore cutting.  Trees were cut before the swedes brought that technique over here.  It was brought up about the amount of hinge wood to keep, depth of face, pulling trees, etc so I kind of took off with it. So yeah I took it a little off track from the original post.  Personally I'd rather trim the back of the stump off the butt log than walk out to the truck for another bar or saw to cut my other one out when I've bored it and it sat down.  I know for a fact that boring just takes more time and to me that is lost income when I can get the same results another way.  Do you use dutchmans to swing trees?

[John Mc]

What the block face does is it exposes the fibers of the hinge allowing them to flex over before the face closes giving max control. 

Interesting. I've never seen anyone around here do that. In what kind of situation would you use the block face, as opposed to just cutting a more open notch?

[Firewoodjoe]

As I said a 20" bar was used. All we ever use. A bigger bar is much nicer and works better in most causes but is far from needed. And when I bore it from the front of the face cut its just that. Cut your face look straight at it and bore into the center of the tree through the face cut. U can see it on that butt log. And I don't see where cutting a deeper face cut uses the lean to a great extent. The tree is still leaning. If anything your cutting more of the wood that's holding the tree up in that direction. I've talked enough about this😀 Happy safe cutting everyone.

[RHP Logging]

As I said a 20" bar was used. All we ever use. A bigger bar is much nicer and works better in most causes but is far from needed. And when I bore it from the front of the face cut its just that. Cut your face look straight at it and bore into the center of the tree through the face cut. U can see it on that butt log. And I don't see where cutting a deeper face cut uses the lean to a great extent. The tree is still leaning. If anything your cutting more of the wood that's holding the tree up in that direction. I've talked enough about this😀 Happy safe cutting everyone.

I gut the heart too. That's one way to remove compression wood.  Removing the compression wood from a hard leaner is what the deep face is all about.  The compression wood is where the tree splits/chairs when not cut up properly. The tree is being held by the tension wood in the back.  That is why I pulled the stump out of the back or why when you bore a tree you leave a strap to keep it on the stump.  If you have a shallow face you are leaving a lot of that compression wood behind the hinge.  That is why when you cut the hinge up too tight when boring the backcut the tree will sit down on the bar.  Nothing wrong with hashing some things out.  That's how I learned and how bigger and better things are developed. A little back and forth if constructive is good. I love bullshittin about cutting timber.  I could do it all day.  I've run all bar sizes from 16-36" in a production setting and I settled on 32" as my favorite length all around.  Three cuts in most trees from one side of the stump and bucking the big ones from one side all save time. 

[RHP Logging]

What the block face does is it exposes the fibers of the hinge allowing them to flex over before the face closes giving max control. 

Interesting. I've never seen anyone around here do that. In what kind of situation would you use the block face, as opposed to just cutting a more open notch?

When laying one uphill for one.  It will keep the tree from sliding back at you.  If you have an obstacle out in the lay and you need to keep the tree attached to the stump for as long as possible.  Laying out across a draw it can keep the tree stretched out instead of smashing the crap out of the top and last log(s). Its the way the old timers cut them in the PNW.  I tend to lean towards the older ways of timber falling, but with some tweaks for hardwood.  Trying to save out every log, every time.

[chester_tree _farmah]

Yes RHP I have used the Dutchman to swing trees. It is quite the trick when done right for sure. It is only for advanced skilled cutters and I am not saying I fall into that category. Only that I  have used it or have atempted to. Haha.

[Mountaynman]

Rhp great ideas for sure can talk about fallin timber all day as well like your block face idea but usually bore cut they have been doin it here in the northeast long before the swedes came over mostly to save butt logs on the steep side hills years ago a mill bought a large sale down in the catskills and had it choppered out but the fallers were splittin the trees left and right a buddy of mine and his crew went in to cut it for them it was like 2 million feet of maple and cherry like 15 years ago

[Plankton]

Anybody ever use angled snipes to get some roll on the stem? I tried that a while ago but I can't remember what happened. Angled like not directly centered on your gun.

Yes sir!  Hows the logging biz?

Getting better, was a pretty bad winter weather wise and breakdown wise. Got a good full day of skidding today which is more then I can say for the last few weeks.

I'm gonna try some angled snipes tommorow for fun see what I can do with it.

[Plankton]

SoftWood so a whole different ball game but this one from a few days ago was leaning heavy to the left and forward.

Cut half of a coos bay from the left and thinned the center hold wood, Then backed it up like normal and chased it down.

180 degree roll was pretty cool to watch.



I would say use whatever combination of techniques you need to get the timber down as quickly and safely as possible. I wouldn't stick to one way for every tree, every tree is different. I like to look at my stumps carefully on trees that didn't do what I wanted them to try to figure out why and try something else next time.

[treeslayer2003]

Anybody ever use angled snipes to get some roll on the stem? I tried that a while ago but I can't remember what happened. Angled like not directly centered on your gun.

of course

[treeslayer2003]

No Sir, the face is a Humbolt, the added non meeting add on I put in the log is the snipe. Look at Bitzer's profile pic, his snipe is the additional add on he put in his stump.

So where was the phone call?!  I didn't have time to bs today anyway.

hey man! good to see you!

I haven't seen you in the usual places so I started looking!  I'm glad to have found Clint too.

i can be found in a couple different places. i can't do much with 2 sites because of the software they use. i can't wait 15 minutes for a page to load. some one asked me if i was mad, of course not. i just got tired of those sites not loading right.

in case any one is wondering, i cut alot like this guy. i will only add this, in some of the timber here, gol don't work at all on the big heavy leaners. i have had them start to split vertically up the back side way before i can close to to the back. so like was said, there is no cure all do all cut. thats why there are so many different styles, cuz there is so many different kinds of wood.

[treeslayer2003]

What the block face does is it exposes the fibers of the hinge allowing them to flex over before the face closes giving max control. 

Interesting. I've never seen anyone around here do that. In what kind of situation would you use the block face, as opposed to just cutting a more open notch?

John the block is the cut for keeping the stick on the stump. but i also use it to get max flex on the brittle wood i am in much of the time. it can also make it easier to get a stick to start moving with wedges while still keeping a thick enough hinge so it won't break. block with snipe out of stump and wedges = maximum steering. only thing better is a sizwheel but it don't work well in very brittle wood.

[sandsawmill14]

i almost always block it out like rph did in the pic but my block will be 6" or more wide then bore in from the front at an angle until i get out of the tree then do the same to the other side leaving a about 4" or more triangle(depending on size of the tree) for the hinge and to keep tree setting down on saw then i come around to the side and stick bar were i came out from the front and cut back to whatever i need for holding wood i do this from both sides when i am ready to turn it lose the tree is standing on 3 "legs" then cut the hold wood at a steep angle to release the tree if i want it to roll off the stump i will clip the hinge on one side as it starts down a 28" bar is long as i have but if it will reach through i only cut from one side instead of both like i said above  it might  take 30-40 min to cut one down but thats not to bad for 2500+ bdft of logs ;)

[Nemologger]

I have cut some pretty hard leaners on the Mississippi river bluffs. The way I found to best get the tree down without  busting it or cracking the hinge is to cut the back spur first. That way your not going to root pull and split it, Then I cut a 90 degree hinge in the front side.  I bore the sides back evenly until it pops the plug so to speak. By not having the back spur holding when it goes it goes fast. But I have never busted a good tree using this method. It that back spur holds any she will bust, so I cut it first.

[RHP Logging]

Rhp great ideas for sure can talk about fallin timber all day as well like your block face idea but usually bore cut they have been doin it here in the northeast long before the swedes came over mostly to save butt logs on the steep side hills years ago a mill bought a large sale down in the catskills and had it choppered out but the fallers were splittin the trees left and right a buddy of mine and his crew went in to cut it for them it was like 2 million feet of maple and cherry like 15 years ago

Thank you sir!  I feel like I heard Soren Erickson first came to the states in the mid 70s with his bore cutting techniques.  I wouldn't doubt that some were bore cutting here before that.  Everyone seems to want to cut timber.  Not everyone can tho. Sometimes you can pull a hard leaner sidehill with a Dutchman on the downhill side and a sizwheel on the uphill.  Often you'll end up pulling half the stump out to bring it around and if you don't do it right you can bust up the butt log.  Sometimes its better than letting a downhill leaner just fly down the hill.  Other times if its heavy enough its only going one way anyway. Cut er up tight and hope for the best.

[RHP Logging]

Anybody ever use angled snipes to get some roll on the stem? I tried that a while ago but I can't remember what happened. Angled like not directly centered on your gun.

Yes sir!  Hows the logging biz?

Getting better, was a pretty bad winter weather wise and breakdown wise. Got a good full day of skidding today which is more then I can say for the last few weeks.

I'm gonna try some angled snipes tommorow for fun see what I can do with it.

We had zero frost in the ground here.  It rained from mid-Nov til New years and then finally got cold.  Snowed before it got cold tho so the frost never got in.  Never really got that cold either and had several thaws in between.  Winter quit the first week of march.  Worst in years.  What kind of issues were you having with the machine?  You have a family to feed? That definitely puts the pressure on a guy.

[RHP Logging]

[quote/]i can be found in a couple different places. i can't do much with 2 sites because of the software they use. i can't wait 15 minutes for a page to load. some one asked me if i was mad, of course not. i just got tired of those sites not loading right.

in case any one is wondering, i cut alot like this guy. i will only add this, in some of the timber here, gol don't work at all on the big heavy leaners. i have had them start to split vertically up the back side way before i can close to to the back. so like was said, there is no cure all do all cut. thats why there are so many different styles, cuz there is so many different kinds of wood.
[/quote]

I thought maybe you were gettin tired of my big mouth!  I don't blame ya if yer havin tech difficulties. That's super irritating. I'm not really savvy myself.

[enigmaT120]

You guys are making me wonder how I ever get a tree on the ground.  It's like a different language.   I'll shut up and keep reading now.  The videos do help some.

[John Mc]

You guys are making me wonder how I ever get a tree on the ground.  It's like a different language

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[sandsawmill14]

You guys are making me wonder how I ever get a tree on the ground.  It's like a different language

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

this is certainly true

[Mountaynman]

all great ideas the best thing coming out of this is sharing different ideas form other parts of the country be safe everyone not many people have the skills or the nerve to do what we do everyday falling timber is a unique skill that is always evolving gramp said if you don't learn something everyday you didn't work long enough had us in the barn milkin cows at 330am figured if you had the first 8 hrs in by noon you had the rest of the day to sort out the problems ready to have at it tmr morn be safe all