This is a letter that our MPP asked for as a result of my complaint about the Ministry of Environment's recent actions. Ontario and Canadian Mills should pay particular attention. Thanks for a chance to post this letter Jeff.
I had to post it to my home page... cuz its too long.
http://groups.msn.com/OldChruchMillwork/moe.msnw?action=get_threads&all_topics=0
A very good letter, Tim. One that I could imagine being written here. When Government Bureaucrats and Environmentalists take charge, logic goes the way of the winds. Glad to see you challenging their thought processes. :)
You points are right on the money. Much of the legislation in the US suffers the same flaws. Good luck in your efforts to bring about change.
Thanks for your replies Tom & OneWithWood; I've spent the bulk of this last week on the phone with other mills. We are having a meeting tonight in regards to the MOE and their compliance and abatement program. I certainly hope that for the sake of the industry that this is enough of an issue to overcome the independant nature of the bulk of the operators here.
Seems to me that your legislator in the US would have a much harder time pushing something like this down your sawmill industry's throat...
I am sure, Tim, out here in Oregon they would have to bring a lunch to see this kind of thing to fruitation.
Same thing around here, Frank. Complacency does run rampant here but mostly in the area of notification, not involvement. We get a lot of stuff slipped to us from behind in the dark and don't find out it happened until the day after the night before. That's what really makes people come to arms. But, it hasn't cost enough Legislators jobs yet. :)
The general complacency in Canadian society makes it difficult for me to look a veteran in the eye. They fought to keep this country free. The general lack of concern leaves the door open for the "authorities" to strip rights and, potentially in this case incomes. The farmers are really taking it in the throat here...
It leaves me cause to wonder if there is a forestry sector in Bermuda
We were inspected this past Tuesday... complete with a presence of the local constabulary. They went and got their access order, which was a suspisious looking document to say the least, and went through the site.
Candy and I drove the 450 kilcks to the Minister of Environment's riding office in Alisston on Thursday. We were well received by his secretary. We left a fistfull of papers for him to look at and requested a face to face.
After that we went to Sarnia to deliver the same papers to the leiutenant governor but, didn't do so because of the function he was at, wouldn't have sit right with me to take advantage of the situation like that. 1500 klicks round trip. Don't know if we accomplished anyting to bring a reprieve to this industry in this county...
I should add that the closest thing I've done to prodction in the last 4 weeks is picking up a half ton load of lumber at the planer...
I don't think there is a word that Jeff would allow me to use here to describe my mood...
Hang in there Tim. Remind them next time that you are a tax payer... they are not. No tax payers equal no paycheck... is that what they want?
This thing here is gaining steam... the media is paying attension along with the municipalities... we have exchange of information agreements with a couple other organizations and one national company. We have commissioned reports by a company that was forced by the MOE to hire consultants. Those reports are clean save for naturally occuring iron content in the water.
Our group is now known as Renfrew County Small Sawmill Association. They picked the name... lol.
To top it off... the g/f accepted the ring. Date is in Sept sometime.
Congratulations Tim. An era coming to an end. :D
these people in the MOE are calling condensate off dehumidification kilns sewage... I can just imagine the swearing going on in private...
This might be a little late and a bad time but
HAPPY CANADA DAY ;D
Just found this thread?? Tim, hang in there. You are leading a real good cause. Today, these "experts" talk out their a**, as, they have NO clue as to what is happening.
"Global Warming" is a good example. These idiots don't look back 10,000 years, to see the pattern. They just see "10" years ago and assume we can fix the situation.
I used to attend meetings and was constantly ridiculed for showing "TRUE" facts concerning the situation at hand. Seems that the "Circle of Idiots" always prevail, until it touches them. Had one of them come to me after it became "their" problem, and I laughed in his face , and told him how stupid he really was. He agreed, and we are fairly good friends, NOW !!
Remember the New York State ruling, not long ago, about small sawmills and building material produced?? That bunch got together and defeated the ruling. YOU CAN TOO. Good luck !!!
Thanks for the encouragement Deadheader. I agree with you on the global warming debate too. The older folks around here remember hotter summers when they were kids than is the case now. For that matter I remember hotter summers as well.
We were given an interesting document last week.
There is a company in the county that has jumped through the MOE's hoops. They hired the consultants and spent $40,000 on the report. They did this under duress, as a part of a plea bargin. The MOE told them that if they didn't plea guilty to a $160,000 fine for not having a waste aproval certificate, that they would be charged with an $800,000 fine for releasing a substance that may cause an adverse effect on the environment. ( Rember, this is sawdust we are talking about )
At any rate, this company gave me a copy of their report from the consultant. It is clean, as it is stated by the consultant in the report.
The MOE wants them to spend another $20,000 to $30,000 on the waste certificate. Bringing the site to their standards for the certificate will probably cost the company another 70 to 100 thousand.
We are right... We will win
Wait until we release this to the media on Wednesday... ;D
F_D, concerning the NYS ruling, nothing has changed! It is still up to the building inspector on whether they'll allow unstamped lumber to be used. The only thing that changed is the building code.
Y'all need to take a piece of wood that has the stamp, and get one made like it at the Office Depot type place !!!! ;) ;) :) :)
I know that's a tempting thing but the ramifications could be expensive.
I have a customer who had one made of his own design. His Korean War nickname in the Marines was and still is Groundhog. He made the stamp to look something like this.
GIP01
SYP#2
AD19R
:DHe said that the GIP01 was Groundhog Inspected Pine and the 01 was his sawmill :D
The inspectors never questioned the stamp. They saw the ink. ;D :D
Maybe I'll just use his design, and act real dumb. I'm good at acting real dumb !! ;D ;D ;D :) :)
Its starting to come to a head... we have a meeting with the guy that is the problem on Thursday. I certainly don't expect that we'll resolve anything at the meeting tomorrow but, I am certain that we will make him look sick. I plan to tape the meeting and release it to the media...
...maybe its because I've been up since 3:00am and am a little cranky... LMAO!!!
Good Luck, Tim. We are waiting for the results.
Well... I didn't realize that I haven't posted since September... Does anyone have a means to clone?
Since then...
I've been working out... cutting for a contractor in Algonquin Park, we need food for the kidlings. The mill is shut down. We are still fighting.
The MOE has leveled charges against two mills for failing to comply with a provincial order. They will both win. There are exemptions in Ontario's EPA for wood residuals. Further, thee are constitutional questions in regard to descrimination attached to these charges.
We have established a working group with the MOE's Ottawa District Office but, they veiw this group as a mean to bring the industry into compliance. The logic still escapes me.
We have several consultant reports in our possession exonerating the subject mills of environmental impact. Bear in mind that these consultants are meerly engineers, not scientists. Further, we have one scientific study that states that they are unable to test & measure the possibility of contaminants in a water course just off a pile as they can not collect and measure due to the fact that there isn't enough concentration of potential contaminants.
We are in the process of alligning our association with several others that are pushing for constitutional ammendent to entrench property rights into the Canadian Constitution. China is ammending theirs to entrench property rights but, Canada has no plans to do so.
Public support for our fight is high and the media has been reporting favourably for us.
Negotiating with my 2 year old is easier than negotiating with the MOE, she show more common scense...
Sorry that its taken so long to get you folks up to date...
Is anyone in British Columbia familiar with Bayside Mills? we need some information on them and hopefully a contact.
Tim,
Joining this conversation a little late.
Somewhere I have a scientific article that I kept which dealt with the difference in wood meat blocks vs. new poly... cutting tables mandated to be used in meat markets.
The change was due because pressure from activists 'felt' the wood blocks was absorbing the blood and providing a environment for bacteria to contaminate the meat.
Scientest performed a study after a increase in bacterial contaminates was found in meat. Results of the tests showed that lignen in the wood actually killed bacteria from the meat. Whereas the new poly... product provided no benefit whatsoever, in fact tests were performed in shops after clean up was completed and bacteria was found growing on the poly...tables.
Even though this test was performed apx. 10 years ago. No change in meat retail markets has occurred. Because they think their white tables appear cleaner. Society has accepted and created and worst healthy scenario, by going off their initial 'feelings' rather than finding facts.
I guess, I shared that too point out that wood fibers have beneficial purposes when we look at the scientific applications.
Tim,
I checked the BC Forestry directory and found Bayside Mills in Port Mellon.It didn't show a prefix so I tried both 604 and 250.I got nothing on the first and on the other one got a answering machine for a Linda :-/
I tried information and found a Bayside forest products in Ladner BC
604 940 6329
It might be the one?
Thanks Paul: I'll ask Candy to look into that one on Monday. It seems to me that Bayside Mills had gone under. Maybe it was simply a change in name. Bayside had plea bargained with the DFO. I'm hoping that we maybe able to get a copy of their consultant report. If it is anything like the 8 or so other reports that we have, it is quite probably clean.
We had a meeting here in Pembroke with the Ottawa District MOE yesterday. This was the fourth such meeting. While I will give them credit for changing though on a few minor points, they are failing miserably to see reason where it counts.
They are still talking about mills hiring consultants to determine if there is even a contaminant. Thereby they are forcing the mills to proove themselves innocent. Furthermore they are passing information from the inspection arm to the enforcement arm to aid in convictions.
One of the mills that were charged and are before the courts are looking at over $100,000 in consultant fees. This will close the mill. Closure will effectively close the towns that this mill provides employment for.
I half think that the enforcing office has a little less than average endowment, therefore is using the legislation to replace tissue and boost their egos.
If you are running a mill in Ontario, I would strongly recommend you joining a landowners group that is pushing for property rights entrenchment. Or quite better yet, contact me and we will help you set up a mill association in your area. We could certainly use the support.
Timothy B. Schwan February 20, 2004
Renfrew County Small Sawmill Association
453 Borne Rd.
Pembroke, Ontario
K8A 6W8
(613) 735-5916
Dalton McGuinty: Premier of the Province of Ontario
Queen's Park
Rm 281, Main Legislative Building
Toronto, Ontario
M7A 1A4
Re; Ministry of Environment; Ottawa District Office Abatement and Compliance Initiative
Dear Mr. McGuinty
I am writing to enquire why the Minister of Environment, in one Leona Dombrowskie, has failed to reply to our requests for a meeting in regards to the Ottawa District Ministry if Environment Office's Abatement and Compliance Initiative. We have been requesting a meeting with her due to this initiative since January 9th. Our MPP in John Yakabuski has requested a meeting on our behalf as early as October of last year and as has the County of Renfrew and the Lanark Landowner's Association. Additionally, Ms. Dombrowskie has been aware of this issue since prior to the October election.
The Ottawa District Office of the Ministry of Environment undertook an abatement and compliance initiative in regards to sawmills and their residuals within the last 5 years. Residuals being untreated sawdust, slabs and trim ends. The Ministry of Environment (MOE) has been issuing provincial orders to the mills to retain consultants to determine IF their residuals are causing an adverse effect on the environment. This initiaitve has been under taken without any scientific evidence to suggest that they may be. The consultant reports have been quoted to the mills in the $40,000 to $60,000 range each, per site.
I object to this undertaking as wood residuals are exempted under regulation 347 as a product. Furthermore, as the abatement and compliance initiative has only been applied to 42 sites within Renfrew and Lanark Counties and not throughout the province equivocally, the initiative can be argued as being discriminatory. Additionally, we have in our possession, several consultant's reports on sites that have exonerated those sites from being the source of an environmental impact due to wood residuals.
I cannot stress enough the additional burden that has been placed on some operators due to this arbitrary initiative. We have already seen mills closing as a result of this abatement and compliance initiative. We call to you to halt the further waste of both public and private money due to this unfounded action by the MOE. If wood is such an environmental problem, maybe we should consider cutting down all the trees and paving the province under so that we do not face this issue again.
I certainly hope that you will pay the attension to this issue that it deserves. We would be pleased to provide further information to this regard inclusive of its environmental and economic impacts to this and other areas.
Sincerely
Tim Schwan
Director
Renfrew County Small Sawmill Association
Well written, tim. You have definetly put the wooden ball in their court. No pun intended. hah hah. You letter ought to get someone off center and into some sort of action by the first of next week. Good fortune to you and you cohorts efforts. 8)
here is a link to the post in sawmilling about the outdoor wood furnace by Kelly Egan
https://forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=sawmill;action=display;num=1078164187